AA History Lovers 2009 Messages 5453-6184 moderated by Nancy Olson September 18, 1929 – March 25, 2005 Glenn F. Chesnut June 28, 1939 – IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5453. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Signatures on Big Book: Howard M. Wilson From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2008 6:36:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Howard M. Wilson was Bill's cousin. - - - - > Hi Jared: > > I saw that Virginia added a note beside > signature number 66, Howard M. Wilson. > Her note said: "(Bill's brother)" > How did she come to believe that Bill had > a brother? As we know, he only had a sister, > Dorothy. His uncle was Clarence, who is > buried beside Bill in East Dorset. > > Les > Colorado Springs, CO IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5454. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Signatures on Big Book: Howard M. Wilson & John Carney From: Matt Dingle . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2008 9:32:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII HOWARD WILSON: Howard Wilson was Bill Wilson's cousin who lived at Stepping Stones for a while. Bill spent time helping him sober up. (I think Bill's effort eventually came to naught.) JOHN CARNEY (JACK CARNEY) -- Art Carney's brother Also, I noticed John Carney's name on the opposite page from Howard. John (or Jack) Carney was Art Carney's brother and wrote the "Take me out to Bellevue" song featured in the 1993 version of Gresham's Law and Alcoholics Anonymous: I¢ve been staying away from the meetings, I¢ve been staying away from the crowd. A pint and three nembies, then call the hack, Here's one wack that is flat on his back. Take me out to Bellevue, so I can remember my name, I must be nuts to think I could cheat on the AA game. For whatever it is worth. Thanks Matt D. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5455. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Tiebout Question From: Sally Brown . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/29/2008 11:13:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi, Mike and everybody - Marty may have been Tiebout's first alcoholic patient at Blythewood, but we don't know that. He was already interested in alcoholism when he met Marty at Bellevue, so probably had had other such patients. Marty certainly was not Blythewood's first alcoholic patient. Grennie Curtis, Nona Wyman, and a couple of other alcoholic women were already Blythewood patients when Marty arrived. (See Chs 12-13 and p 131 of A Biography of Mrs Marty Mann for info about Grennie). Happy New Year! Sally Rev Sally Brown Board Certified Chaplain United Church of Christ Coauthor with David R Brown: A Biography of Mrs. Marty Mann: The First Lady of Alcoholics Anonymous http://www.sallyanddavidbrown.com 1470 Sand Hill Rd, 309 Palo Alto, California 94304 Phone/Fax: 650-325-5258 Email: rev.sally@att.net (rev.sally at att.net) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5456. . . . . . . . . . . . Just For Today made to stop emails by AA World Services From: DudleyDobinson@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/31/2008 6:14:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Dudley Dobinson, a recovered member of AA in Ireland: http://www.aahistory.com/ has a notice that their Just For Today emails have had to be stopped. As they announce it on their webpage: http://www.aahistory.com/jft.html Dear "Just For Today!" members, As of December 31, 2008 we find ourselves at the end of an unplanned transition. Our last email has been sent, dear readers, until we can find some suitable material to pass on to you that can be emailed around the globe without restrictions. It's been sheer joy being of service to you for these last 4,850 days. (One at a time.) - - - - An explanation is given in an email they have sent around to various people: "AA World Services has asked us to cease and desist sending AA materials outside the US, in violation of international copyright agreements. It’s virtually impossible to police who is in the US and who isn’t, so we’re ceasing publication rather than risk legal action by AAWS." "Our last posting comes from the first edition of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, printed in 1939 by Works Publishing Company, pages 178-179 (currently page 164 in the 4th edition of the same title)." "Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you haven't got. See to it that your relationship with Him is right, and great events will come to pass for you and countless others. This is the Great Fact for us." "Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny." "May God bless you and keep you - until then." Sincerely, Bob M., Scott B., Terry H., Carl J., Bob B., Jenny M., Doug B., Barbara P., Ken P., Roger B., Bill B., Seth P., Luke J., and the late Herb K. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FROM THE MODERATOR: We have posted this because the long series of attempts by AA World Services in New York City to keep alcoholics in many other parts of the world from reading material from the first edition of the Big Book (even though it is no longer under copyright in the U.S.) unless it has been printed by AAWS or reproduced under direct license from them, is a part of AA history. You can go back through our past messages and read full historical accounts of all of the earlier disputes over this and similar issues involving AAWS. But please remember one of the cardinal guidelines set up by our group's founder, Nancy Olson: "This is not an AA chat group," by which she meant that we had to stick with questions about the historical facts, and could not get involved in disputes over matters of opinion and interpretation. So no matter how strongly you feel on either side of this issue -- whether you regard the people at AAWS as the Children of Darkness or the Children of Light -- please do not send messages to the AAHistoryLovers simply swearing at AAWS or defending them as the true angels of righteousness and probity. On the other hand, if there are major factual errors in what the messages from Just For Today and its supporters have reported, or other historical facts that have been omitted from the story, those are fair game for the aa-HISTORY-lovers. I know that lots of people feel VERY strongly on this issue, but please, to preserve the basic character of the AAHistoryLovers as a venue to check on the basic historical facts of AA history in a reasonably calm and objective format, send these comments to some other better suited AA web group. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5457. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Henry Ford remark on page 124 of the Big Book From: Russ Stewart . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/29/2008 10:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The quote from THE FAMILY AFTERWARD, pg. 124: "Henry Ford once made a wise remark to the effect that experience is the thing of supreme value is life. That is true only if one is willing to turn the past to good account. We grow by our willingness to face and rectify errors and convert them into assets. The alcoholic's past thus becomes the principal asset of the family and frequently it is almost the only one!" I believe the quote the Big Book authors were referring to was: "Life is a series of experiences, each one of which makes us bigger, even though sometimes it is hard to realize this. For the world was built to develop character, and we must learn that the setbacks and grieves which we endure help us in our marching onward." But I do not know when he said it or who he was saying it to. However, I did find this on Wikipedia: In 1923, Ford's pastor, and head of the Ford Sociology Department, the Episcopal minister Samuel S. Marquis, claimed that Ford believed, or "once believed" in reincarnation. Though it is unclear whether or how long Ford kept such a belief, the San Francisco Examiner from August 26, 1928, published a quote which described Ford's beliefs: - - - - I adopted the theory of Reincarnation when I was twenty six. Religion offered nothing to the point. Even work could not give me complete satisfaction. Work is futile if we cannot utilise the experience we collect in one life in the next. When I discovered Reincarnation it was as if I had found a universal plan I realised that there was a chance to work out my ideas. Time was no longer limited. I was no longer a slave to the hands of the clock. Genius is experience. Some seem to think that it is a gift or talent, but it is the fruit of long experience in many lives. Some are older souls than others, and so they know more. The discovery of Reincarnation put my mind at ease. If you preserve a record of this conversation, write it so that it puts men's minds at ease. I would like to communicate to others the calmness that the long view of life gives to us. - - - - My new question now is, did Bill W. believe in reincarnation?? ______________________________ From the moderator: For more on Rev. Marquis and the so-called "Ford Sociology Department," see: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_n10_v39/ai_6323610/pg_4 The Ford Motor Company's experiment in what is sometimes referred to as "welfare capitalism" was gradually undermined by increasing competition from other Detroit manufacturers, by growing labor unrest, and by an economy that after the First World War showed signs of becoming more and more unstable. During the First World War, the Ford Sociological Department became the base of operations within the Ford Motor Company for the national spy network associated with the American Protective League (APL). This was a patriotic "citizen's group" which had as its object the discovery of IWW and socialist opponents of the war effort, and the enforcement of the Espionage and Sedition Acts of the federal government. Ford Sociological Department investigators working for the APL examined the files on the home lives of Ford workers for evidence of disloyalty, and used these as a basis for coercing or firing "wrong elements." In the depression of 1920-21 that came after the war the Ford Motor Co. was especially hard hit. Total sales of vehicles dropped from 998,029 in 1919 to 530,780 in 1920. In the drastic reorganization that followed, which included massive layoffs and an enormous speed-up on the production line, the strategy of the Ford Motor Co. turned from one of "welfare capitalism" to more ruthless forms of exploitation. Explaining the general atmosphere at this time, one Ford executive stated, "We were driving them, of course. We were driving them in those days. . . . Ford was one of the worst shops for driving the men." As part of this reorganization, the Sociological Department was disbanded in 1921. Yet, its more repressive function, associated with what Leo Huberman was to call "the labor spy racket," was retained and given a new home in the notorious Service Department, which became the headquarters for Ford's struggles against unions throughout the 1920s and 1930s. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5458. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/29/2008 8:58:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Message #430 of this group submitted by its founder, Nancy Olson, July 20, 2002 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/430 gives Bill Wilson's Guidelines for stories in the 2d edition of the Big Book: "Since the audience for the book [Big Book] is likely to be newcomers, anything from the point of view of content or style that might offend or alienate those who are not familiar with the program should be carefully elim- inated . . . Profanity, even when mild, rarely contributes as much as it detracts. It should be avoided." Tommy H in Baton Rouge - - - - Message 5450 from (hjfree at fuse.net) asked: >I have seen a letter or comment attributed >to Bill Wilson regarding abusive and vulgar >lanquage not being appropriate at meetings. > >Clues where to look? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5459. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage From: John Lee . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/30/2008 10:39:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The comment on bad language is found in a standard form letter sent to Groups by GSO since the 1950s or 1960s. I think the letter is still being used. It basically says that "Groups that encourage the practice of the 12 Steps find that their members grow in all areas. That is our experience. Thank you very much." Groups have been trying for decades to get New York GSO to act as a super-referee for Group disputes. GSO won't be lured into that duty, mindful that the Groups are autonomous. The latest form of the form letter doesn't mention Bill W., but the original might have been signed by Bill. Some of the Intergroups with extensive archives would have the original version of the letter, and its inception date. john lee pittsburgh IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5460. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Skeletons in the closet From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/30/2008 8:44:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Interesting wording, could it be that the "few skeletons" phrase was deliberately chosen because in some instances we are advised to make an indirect rather than direct amends? That is what I took from it. Sincerely, Jim F. - - - - Step 9. "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, EXCEPT WHEN TO DO SO WOULD INJURE THEM OR OTHERS." - - - - On Mon, 12/29/08, stuboymooreman81 wrote: I was curious as to why on p. 125 in the Big Book, in the chapter on "The Family Afterward," it says we keep FEW skeletons as opposed to NO skeletons in the closet. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5461. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Signatures on Big Book: Howard M. Wilson and John Carney From: Bob Schultz . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/1/2009 6:18:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII John (Jack) Carney was a dentist and I saw him at an IDAA gathering in Morristown, New Jersey back in the 70's ....Very entertaining fellow. bob (bsdds) (for whatever that is worth category also) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5462. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Photographs of Richard Peabody or Courtenay Baylor? From: aalogsdon@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/31/2008 5:58:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The AMERICAN magazine for September 1931 has on page 22, a picture of Richard Peabody that will reproduce into a nice larger picture. I have a copy of this magazine, will copy if you need. Email me at: (aalogsdon at aol.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5463. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: A group may request that only home group members vote From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/30/2008 8:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Tradition Three: Long Form “Our membership ought to in- clude all who suffer from alco- holism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or confor- mity. Any two or three alcohol- ics gathered together for sobri- ety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other af- filiation.” The Third Tradition is a sweeping state- ment indeed; it takes in a lot of terri- tory. Some people might think it too idealistic to be practical. It tells every alcoholic in the world that he may be- come, and remain, a member of Alco- holics Anonymous so long as he says so. In short, Alcoholics Anonymous has no membership rule . . . . If he is anything, the sick alcoholic is a rebellious nonconformist . . . . If we raise obstacles, he might stay away and perish. He might be denied his price- less opportunity. So when he asks, “Are there any con- ditions?” we joyfully reply, “No, not a one.” . . . . Our membership Tradition does contain, however, one vitally important qualification. That qualification re- lates to the use of our name, Alcohol- ics Anonymous. We believe that any two or three alcoholics gathered to- gether for sobriety may call them- selves an AA group provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation. Here our purpose is clear and un- equivocal. For obvious reasons we wish the name Alcoholics Anonymous to be used only in connection with straight AA activities. One can think of no AA member who would like, for example, to be designated by reli- gious denominations. We cannot lend the AA name, even indirectly, to other activities, however worthy. If we do so we shall become hopelessly compromised and divided. Reprinted from The Language of the Heart © 1988 The AA Grapevine, Inc. Bill W. on the Third Tradition February, 1948 - - - - From Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana): On the other side, see Message 5426, which appeared two weeks ago, and qualifies Tradition Three by distinguishing between (a) calling myself an AA member and (b) being given voting rights in a particular AA group's business meeting. (a) I can choose any AA group I want as my "home group" according to Tradition Three, but (b) I can have only one such home group at a time. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5426 refers to the conference pamphlet on "The A.A. Group," which can be read online at: http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/p-16_theaagroup.pdf The conference pamphlet on "The A.A. Group" says that each AA member gets one and only one vote, which is ideally done within that member's home group, and that a "group may request that only home group members participate or vote" in their business meetings. pages 13-14 The A.A. Home Group Traditionally, most A.A. members through the years have found it important to belong to one group which they call their "Home Group." This is the group where they accept service responsibilities and try to sustain friendships. And although all A.A. members are usually welcome at all groups and feel at home at any of these meetings, the concept of the "Home Group" has still remained the strongest bond between the A.A. member and the Fellowship. With membership comes the right to vote upon issues that might affect the group and might also affect A.A. as a whole—a process that forms the very cornerstone of A.A.’s service structure. As with all group-conscience matters, each A.A. member has one vote; and this, ideally, is voiced through the home group. Over the years, the very essence of A.A. strength has remained with our home group, which, for many members, becomes our extended family. Once isolated by our drinking, we find in the home group a solid, continuing support system, friends and, very often, a sponsor. We also learn firsthand, through the group’s workings, how to place "principles before personalities" in the interest of carrying the A.A. message. Talking about her own group, a member says: "Part of my commitment is to show up at my homegroup meetings, greet newcomers at the door, and be available to them—not only for them but for me. My fellow group members are the people who know me, listen to me, and steer me straight when I am off in left field. They give me their experience, strength and A.A. love, enabling me to ‘pass it on’ to the alcoholic who still suffers." page 28 A.A. Business Meetings In most groups, the chairperson or another officer calls the business meeting, which ordinarily is held on a monthly or quarterly basis. While some groups may occasionally permit nonmembers to attend, the group may request that only home group members participate or vote. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5464. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: prayer request for Ray G. From: Russ Stewart . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/29/2008 10:25:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Has anyone heard how The Ardmore Archivist is doing? I have been blessed to have spent time with Ray as my own personal tour guide on more than 2 occasions in Akron. He also came with me to Chagrin Falls, Ohio where my father is buried and stood by me and supported me as I made a very tearful graveside amends. May God bless him and my prayers are with him and his wife Ginny. Two of the greatest AA blessings I have ever met... One of my more favorite moments with Ray were at Dr. Bob's grave. As he lowered himself to his knees next to the headstone, with tears streaming down his cheeks, Ray said, "I know were not supposed to have heroes in AA, but Dr. Bob was mine. He was a true man of Christ." _____ Mitchell K. Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:42 PM To: AA History Lovers; Mel Barger; Glenn Chesnut; Matt Dingle; Ernest Kurtz; Bill Lash; Jared Lobdell; Shakey Mike G.; Al Welch Just got an e-mail message that Ray G. is going in for surgery tomorrow (Wednesday) in Florida. Please keep Ray in your thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery if that be God's will. Mitchell IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5465. . . . . . . . . . . . Douglas D. previously unkown pioneer of AA? From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/31/2008 12:21:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Douglas D. (1895 – 1969) Douglas joined the growing band of recovering drunks at the beginning of 1937. The survey of the New Jersey Group of A.A. taken on January 1, 1940 lists Douglas as having been a member for three years. The survey also indicates that he has had several slips but is making some progress. It is likely that Douglas would have been included when Bill and Dr. Bob counted up the first forty sober in the fall of 1937. Interestingly enough we can trace Douglas's early path and find several instances where it might have crossed with Bill Wilson's. Douglas, like Bill attended the officer's training camp in Plattsburg, New York in 1917. Like Bill he was an officer (Captain) in an artillery unit in WWI. Douglas was assigned to the 305th Field Artillery and was wounded in France. During the time that Douglas was in A.A. he was living in Plainfield, New Jersey and is listed as an active member of the New Jersey Group. Douglas would have been a part of the original group that was attending Oxford Group meetings and the weekly gatherings on Clinton Street that included Hank Parkhurst, John (Fitzhugh) Mayo, Myron Williams, William Ruddell, Florence Rankin and Paul Kellogg. Douglas D. is signature # 32 in the 1st Big Book ever sold, signed by all the early pioneers, and now housed in the archives at the General Service Office in New York. Not much more is known about Douglas at the present. He apparently had a successful career as a securities analyst (another common point with Bill). Douglas' career was with Merrill Lynch. His success here may or may not be indicitive of long-term sobriety. Douglas died November 14, 1969 and the following obituary appeared in the New York Times on November 15, 1969. ______________________________ Princeton, N.J., Nov. 14 – Douglas D...., a retired securities analyst f or Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith, died in Princeton Hospital today of a heart attack. He was 74 years old and lived at 62 Battle Road here. Mr. D.... was graduated from Princeton Uni- versity in 1917 and served as a captain of artillery in World War I. He joined Merrill Lynch in 1941 and retired in 1960; He leaves his wife, the former Eleanor M.; a son, Douglas Jr., a stepson, Allan F., and Mrs. Blaikie W., and seven grandchildren. ______________________________ John B. The Big Book Study Group of South Orange, New Jersey IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5466. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Just For Today made to stop emails by AA World Services From: Gary Becktell . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/2/2009 3:51:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The original mail from JFT on this issue went out on November 30, 2008. It is copied in its entirety below. Their attempts to satisfy the AAWS requirements were not enough so they sent out their final mail (posted on AAHL by Dudley D) on 12/30/08. -- G - - - - Sunday November 30, 2008 Subject: Changes to JFT! email service. The "Just For Today!" daily email service has been available five days each week since September 1995. To date, volunteers have sent out over 31 million emails to subscribers like you located all over the world. Unexpectedly, we were given notice on Wednesday by AA World Services, Inc. that we must stop using AAWS-copyrighted material, effective today. Therefore, we will change the format of the daily emails in the following ways: Three days a week you'll receive excerpts from the first 164 pages of the first edition big book now in the public domain. Two days a week you will receive an item of AA related history or trivia that we think you will find interesting. Although we would prefer not to lose the oppor- tunity to be of maximum service to any of our current subscribers, if you find that this new format is not useful in your program of recov- ery, you can opt out following the instructions at the bottom of this email or any of the daily messages. If you agree that this new trial format sounds interesting and potentially helpful, you need do nothing but sit back and enjoy the service that has been provided, uninterrupted, for the last 691 weeks. Thank you for letting us be of service to you ... and, as always, JFT! remains absolutely 100% free of charge and without advertising. Yours in Fellowship, "Just for Today" volunteers Bob B, Bob M, Carl J, Jenny MM, Scott B, Terry H, and Doug B. *********************************************** The AAHISTORY.COM webpage is at: http://www.aahistory.com/ http://www.aahistory.com/jft.html c/o Doug B. (Riverside, California) *********************************************** Original Message from: DudleyDobinson@aol.com To: undisclosed-recipients: Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:14 PM Subject: Just For Today made to stop emails by AA World Services From Dudley Dobinson, a recovered member of AA in Ireland: http://www.aahistory.com/ has a notice that their Just For Today emails have had to be stopped. As they announce it on their webpage: http://www.aahistory.com/jft.html Dear "Just For Today!" members, As of December 31, 2008 we find ourselves at the end of an unplanned transition. Our last email has been sent, dear readers, until we can find some suitable material to pass on to you that can be emailed around the globe without restrictions. It's been sheer joy being of service to you for these last 4,850 days. (One at a time.) - - - - An explanation is given in an email they have sent around to various people: "AA World Services has asked us to cease and desist sending AA materials outside the US, in violation of international copyright agreements. It?s virtually impossible to police who is in the US and who isn?t, so we?re ceasing publication rather than risk legal action by AAWS." "Our last posting comes from the first edition of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, printed in 1939 by Works Publishing Company, pages 178-179 (currently page 164 in the 4th edition of the same title)." "Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you haven't got. See to it that your relationship with Him is right, and great events will come to pass for you and countless others. This is the Great Fact for us." "Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny." "May God bless you and keep you - until then." Sincerely, Bob M., Scott B., Terry H., Carl J., Bob B., Jenny M., Doug B., Barbara P., Ken P., Roger B., Bill B., Seth P., Luke J., and the late Herb K. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5467. . . . . . . . . . . . Interviewing oldtimers From: stevec012000 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/3/2009 9:00:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Greetings all, Any suggested formats or methods for inter- viewing oldtimers in your area? Just want to see if anyone has expanded upon what is already circulated by AAWS. New Archivist IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5468. . . . . . . . . . . . Hank P bio From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/5/2009 2:47:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From "John Barton" (jax760 at yahoo.com) Henry G. Parkhurst "The Unbeliever" (1895 – 1954) Henry Giffen Parkhurst was born March 13, 1895 in Marion, Iowa. He is considered to be A.A. #2 in the New York contingent of Alcoholics Anonymous and was Bill's first "sponsee." Henry (Hank) was from Teaneck, New Jersey and could be considered to be the fifth* member of A.A. New Jersey A.A can trace its roots to Hank. Hank had once been the Assistant General Sales Manager for Standard Oil of New Jersey and had been fired for his drinking. Bill found him in September of 1935 in Towns Hospital and offered him the solution that had worked for him, Doctor Bob and Bill Dotson. Hank, who had been treated numerous times previously at Towns and was an avowed atheist, reluctantly accepted the "spiritual" solution. His story, "The Unbeliever" was published in the 1st edition of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous. Hank is first mentioned in "The Doctor's Opinion" on page xxix of the Big Book. Dr. Silkworth describes his case in detail: "He has lost everything worthwhile in life and was only living, one might say, to drink. He frankly admitted and believed that for him there was no hope. Following the elimination of alcohol, there was found to be no permanent brain injury. He accepted the plan outlined in this book. One year later he called to see me, and I experienced a very strange sensation. I knew the man by name, and partly recognized his features, but there all resemblance ended. From a trembling, despairing, nervous wreck, had emerged a man brimming over with self- reliance and contentment. I talked with him for some time, but was notable to bring myself to feel that I had known him before. To me he was a stranger, and so he left me. A long time has passed with no return to alcohol." Hank is again mentioned in the chapter "A Vision for You" on page 163 as the ". . . A.A. member living in a large community." This refers to Hank's home on N. Fullerton Street in Upper Montclair where he was living in 1939 when the big book was first published. Hank has been described as a red haired, tall, broad-shouldered former athlete with a salesman's drive and enthusiasm. Hank was a hard-driving promoter who was once described as "having an idea a minute." He and his wife Kathleen had two sons, Henry and Robert (Hank Jr., and Bob.) Hank and his wife Kathleen began attending the meetings on Tuesday nights that Bill and Lois held at their Brooklyn home at 182 Clinton Street. These meetings which began in the fall of 1935 would continue until April of 1939. Hank also attended Oxford Group meetings with Bill and another New York recruit named John Fitzhugh Mayo. One A.A. story has Hank in early recovery one night with Bill and Fitz driving down Park Avenue in Hank's convertible. Hank suddenly stood straight up, grasping the steering wheel in both hands, with the wind beating against him, yelling, "God! God almighty, booze was never this good." Hank had an office at 9-11 Hill Street in Newark, which later moved to 17 William Street. The office was "the headquarters for a rapidly failing business," according to Bill. The business was Honor Dealers, which Hank had conceived, according to one source, as a way of getting back at Standard Oil; the company that had fired him for his drinking. His business plan was to provide selected gasoline stations with the opportunity to buy gasoline, oil, and automobile parts on a cooperative basis. Bill Wilson was hired to be a salesman for the company and was later joined by Jimmy Burwell; another pioneer of A.A. Ruth Hock was hired as the secretary of Honor Dealers and would later become the A.A. Foundation's first national secretary. Ruth remembered very little gasoline business being conducted there. A lot of people dropped in to discuss their drinking problems, and on more than one occasion she observed Bill and Hank kneeling in prayer by the side of Hank's desk with one of these visitors, an Oxford Group custom when seeking God's guidance. It was here in the offices of Honor Dealers that the book Alcoholics Anonymous was to be written. In 1937, on February 13th the "Alcoholic Squadron" of the New York Oxford Group held a meeting in New Jersey at Hank Parkhurst's Teaneck home on Wyndham Road. It was the first time the group of drunks met in New Jersey to conduct an "alcoholic style" Oxford Group meeting. The purpose of this meeting was to introduce William Ruddell (A Business Man's Recovery) of Hackettstown to the fledgling fellowship. March of 1938 marked the beginning of the writing of the Big Book at Hank's office. The project needed funding so Hank wrote up a prospectus for "The 100 Men Corporation." They offered 600 shares for sale at $25 par value. Hank went down to a stationary store, bought blank stock certificates, typed in his full name, followed by the title "President." The name of the publishing company was "Works Publishing Co.," but the corporation was not registered until several years later. Hank and Bill were each to keep 200 shares for their work on the book, the balance of the 200 shares would be sold for $25 per share. This would raise the $5,000 needed to publish the book. Although Bill was the primary author of the book, Hank is credited with "writing" Chapter 10, To Employers. Without Hank and his hard driving, raising money, promoting and keeping Bill on task, the book may never have been written. On April 26, 1939 Bill and Lois were evicted from their home at 182 Clinton Street in Brooklyn. They moved in with Hank and Kathleen Parkhurst who were now living in Upper Montclair, New Jersey. On May 14, 1939, a Sunday afternoon, the very first meeting of what was to become the New Jersey Group of Alcoholics Anonymous took place in the home of Hank and Kathleen in Montclair. Meetings that had been formerly held in Brooklyn were held in New Jersey for the next 5 or 6 weeks. The meetings began at 4:00 PM and went most of the night. They rotated speakers for the first portion according to Jim Burwell who was also living at Hank and Kathleen's home as well at that time. In the early summer of 1939 there was a falling out between Bill and Hank. Hank wanted to leave his wife and marry Ruth Hock, the secretary from Honor Dealers. She refused his proposal and Hank felt that Bill had interfered. In late June Hank and Kathleen would split up. Hank moved to East Orange, Bill and Lois left to stay at the Bungalow owned by Horace Chrystal (a New York member) in Green Pond, New Jersey. In early September, Hank Parkhurst had returned to drinking. Bill's first sponsee, the great promoter of the Big Book and the founder of A.A. in New Jersey would never again enjoy long term sobriety. Hank would nurse resentment against Bill for the rest of his life and cause great division within the A.A. ranks in the months to come. In March of 1940 Bill and Ruth moved the office of the Alcoholic Foundation to Vesey Street in Manhattan. Not long after, Hank showed up dirty, drunk and in a bad way. He complained that the furniture in the office was still his and Bill offered him $200 for the furniture provided he signed over his 200 shares of Works Publishing Co. to the Alcoholic Foundation. Hank in desperation complied. Hank had periods of sobriety over the next 14 years despite periodic episodes of drinking. At one point he married the sister of Clarence Snyder's wife Dorothy and had Clarence working for him as a salesman for a company called Henry Giffen, Fine Porcelains. Hank's third marriage was to a Houston oil heiress. She reportedly was the love of his life. She died leaving Hank an inheritance which he later used to remarry Kathleen and purchase a chicken farm in Pennington, New Jersey. The chicken coup caught fire and was destroyed in January 1954. The story was reported in the Pennington Post, which also carried Hank's obituary on the very same day. Hank died January 18, 1954, at Mercer Hospital in Pennington, New Jersey. Lois Wilson said his death was due to drinking. Others claimed it was pills. Some thought it was both. His obituary says only that he died after a lengthy illness. Despite Hank's difficulties, A.A. owes Henry G. Parkhurst its thanks and gratitude. Without Hank, the Big Book and A.A.'s early history might be remarkably different from what we have today. A.A. in New Jersey and its history are the direct result of Hank Parkhurst's involvement in A.A. during its "flying blind" period. John B. The Big Book Study Group of South Orange, New Jersey - - - - *Hank being the "fifth" member, in Hank's 1st edition story he says: "Told him it sounded like self hypnotism to me and he said what of it . . . didn't care if it was yogi-ism, self-hypnotism, or anything else . . . four of them were well." ["Four of them well" likely refers to Bill, Dr. Bob, Eddie Reilly, and Bill Dotson. Eddie did not remain sober or stay a member for long, but he did achieve sobriety in 1949.] - - - - The following sources are gratefully acknowledged: Biographies separately published by both Mike O and Nancy O A History of The Big Book - Alcoholics Anonymous, Written by Donald B. Postings of AA History Lovers, yahoo.com A Narrative Timeline of AA History 2007 – Arthur S. Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age – AAWS Alcoholics Anonymous 1st ed. Alcoholics Anonymous 3rd ed. Pass it On – AAWS Not God - Kurtz IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5469. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: prayer request for Ray G. From: Fred . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/3/2009 11:46:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Russ and Concerned friends, After notification by Mitchell K. in his post about Ray, my wife spoke to Ginny that day (12/16/08). Ray was to have some growths removed that had returned from his previous medical condition. Ginny thanked us for calling and said Ray was doing great and would be back in OHIO for The Lake Milton Emotional Sobriety weekend held in early February. The prayer chain that was continued for Ray and Ginny helped see them BOTH through, and the Grace of God blesses them and all they touch everyday. Gratefully Yours, Fred from Ohio - - - - From: "Maria Hoffman" (jhoffma6 at tampabay.rr.com) Yes, Ray is doing great. The surgery was successful and the recovery is going well. Now, if we could just get him to take it easy for a while. He was Home from the hospital on Saturday, entertained Christmas guests Thursday and at 2 meetings the Monday following! He thanks everyone for so many cards and calls. Maria Hoffman - Largo Florida - - - - Original message #5464 from "Russ Stewart" (russ1022 at ptd.net) Has anyone heard how The Ardmore Archivist is doing? I have been blessed to have spent time with Ray as my own personal tour guide on more than 2 occasions in Akron. He also came with me to Chagrin Falls, Ohio where my father is buried and stood by me and supported me as I made a very tearful graveside amends. May God bless him and my prayers are with him and his wife Ginny. Two of the greatest AA blessings I have ever met... One of my more favorite moments with Ray were at Dr. Bob's grave. As he lowered himself to his knees next to the headstone, with tears streaming down his cheeks, Ray said, "I know were not supposed to have heroes in AA, but Dr. Bob was mine. He was a true man of Christ." _____ Mitchell K. Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:42 PM To: AA History Lovers; Mel Barger; Glenn Chesnut; Matt Dingle; Ernest Kurtz; Bill Lash; Jared Lobdell; Shakey Mike G.; Al Welch Just got an e-mail message that Ray G. is going in for surgery tomorrow (Wednesday) in Florida. Please keep Ray in your thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery if that be God's will. Mitchell IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5470. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage From: allan_gengler . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2009 5:45:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII This statement by Bill Wilson can be found on page 3 of "Experience, Strength & Hope," the collection of stories from the first three editions of the Big Book: > "Since the audience for the book [Big Book] > is likely to be newcomers, anything from the > point of view of content or style that might > offend or alienate those who are not familiar > with the program should be carefully elim- > inated . . . Profanity, even when mild, > rarely contributes as much as it detracts. > It should be avoided." - - - - > Message 5450 from > (hjfree at fuse.net) asked: > > >I have seen a letter or comment attributed > >to Bill Wilson regarding abusive and vulgar > >lanquage not being appropriate at meetings. > > > >Clues where to look? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5471. . . . . . . . . . . . SoCal GSR Preamble From: Shane . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/5/2009 11:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Does anyone know the origin of the GSR preamble which is read at monthly District Meetings here in Southern California??? I would appreciate any info you may have. Thanks. Shane P. Archivist, Area 05 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5472. . . . . . . . . . . . Other 12 step groups'' use of the 12 steps and 12 traditions From: lester112985 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/5/2009 8:53:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello group and Happy New Year, On the title page of the basic text of Narcotics Anonymous there is a statement that reads 12 Steps and 12 Traditions reprinted for adaption by permission of A.A. World Services, Inc. Can someone tell me how this permission is obtained from AA. Was this a conference action? Where can I find this in print from AA? I have been asked this question more than once, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Lester Gother Archivist Area 44 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5473. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Interviewing oldtimers From: rick tompkins . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/4/2009 9:18:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello New Archivist Steve, What is "already circulated by AAWS" as the 'Oral History Kit' you will find in the Archives Workbook. Online at the Fellowship's website (aa.org), it collected and gathered many of the questions archivists have been utilizing for a very long time. Originally it was expanded from a few questions to many questions, back to a few questions (Workbook 2004) and back to the list available today. Of course, one interview question leads to others! If new ideas come to you please share them. And, allow the interviewee as much recollection time as he or she'd like. Rick, Illinois IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5474. . . . . . . . . . . . Transcribing oral interviews. From: charley.bill . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/5/2009 2:56:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII This is especially for Glenn, and anyone else burdened by lots of interviews to transcribe. I went to the doctor recently and after his exam, he pulled out a microphone and dictated his report into the machine, gave me a copy and one for my primary care doc.. He was using Dragon Naturally Speaking 9.5 and it only made one error! I ran down to Fry's and bought one of the Professional edition Dragons and started reading up on what it can do. I have been back to Fry's to get a small Sony recording device. I think I am now set up to learn how to record interviews, or transfer tapes to hard disk, and print the transcript, to have this Dragon transcribe my entire backlog. It says it can do it. I wonder if any one has any ideas for setting this work up, whether I will need any more equipment, etc. I would appreciate your help and will keep you posted on my progress. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5475. . . . . . . . . . . . Florence R. and Rollie H. From: Michael F. Margetis . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/4/2009 4:23:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII FLORENCE RANKIN'S GRAVE: In the Spring 2007 issue of "Markings" is an article about the Washington (DC) Intergroup (WAIA) locating Florence Rankin's grave. It's a touching story about finding her burial site in a rundown section of the cemetery (George Washington Cemetery, Adelphi, Maryland) and raising funds, privately, to purchase a headstone. Apparently there was no headstone, just a marker. Bob W. and the WAIA archives committee are doing a fantastic job! ROLLIE HEMSLEY'S GRAVE: Not long ago I learned, from reading old baseball player bios, that Rollie Hemsley of Cleveland Indians catcher 1940 anonymity break fame, was buried at the same cemetery. I live nearby and an AA friend and I visited both gravesites recently. Quite an experience. If anyone is interested in photos I'll be happy to email them. Contact me at: (mfmargetis at yahoo.com) Link to the Markings story, pg 4: http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_spring07.pdf Thanks, Mike Margetis Brunswick, Maryland - - - - From the Markings story: Florence R. was among the first women to get sober in A.A., and the only one to write a story for the first edition of Alcoholics Anonymous. (Her story, “A Feminine Victory,” is now found in Experience Strength and Hope with others from the first three editions of the Big Book.) We in the archives committee felt that as a part of A.A. history she was deserving of some commemoration, and so decided to locate her grave. We called the cemetery offices and asked if they had a grave site for Florence R. Their search proved negative. We then recalled that the death certificate was for Florence K. (her married name) and called the cemetery again with that name, and that did the trick. They had such a gravesite recorded April 1943. Making arrangements with the cemetery offices, we arrived to continue our search. The caretaker provided a map and a marker and told us that they would give us help with our search. Two cemetery workers arrived with a shovel and a metal detector and off we went —- to an unkempt part of the cemetery where there were no grave stones –- just a lot of weeds, trees, and leaves. After much pacing off of distances, the two workers exclaimed, “Here it is!” The workers used the shovel to clear the area so that the metal marker could be seen. We planted the flag marker and laid down a single flower. The cemetery informed us how we could go about purchasing a gravestone .... at our next Washington Area Intergroup Association Board meeting [the] consensus was that ... it was inappropriate to use A.A. money. [But] when we announced that private funds would be sought, we left the meeting with sufficient pledges to cover the cost of both the stone and its installation. - - - - From Nancy Olson's biographies of the Big Book authors: http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm#Florence%20R anki\ n [1] A Feminine Victory -- Florence Rankin New York City. Original Manuscript, p. 217 in 1st edition Florence was the first woman to get sober in A.A., even for a short time. She came to A.A. in New York in March of 1937. She had several slips, but was sober over a year when she wrote her story for the Big Book. It must have been difficult for Florence being the only woman. She prayed for inspiration to tell her story in a manner that would give other women courage to seek the help that she had been given. She was the ex-wife of a man Bill Wilson had known on Wall Street. She thought the cause of her drinking would be removed when she and her husband were divorced. But it was her ex-husband who took Lois Wilson to visit her at Bellevue. Bill and Lois got her out of Bellevue and she stayed in their home for a time. After she left their home she stayed with other members of the fellowship. In part, due to Florence having been sober more than a year, "One Hundred Men" was discarded as the name for the Big Book. She moved to Washington, D.C. and tried to help Fitz Mayo ("Our Southern Friend"), who after sobering up in New York started A.A. in Washington, D.C. She married an alcoholic she met there, who unfortunately did not get sober. Eventually Florence started drinking again and disappeared. Fitz Mayo found her in the morgue. She had committed suicide. Despite her relapse and death from alcoholism, Florence helped pave the way for the many women who followed. She was in Washington by the time Marty Mann ("Women Suffer Too"), the next woman to arrive in A.A. in New York, entered the program. Marty only met her once or twice, but her story in the Big Book no doubt encouraged Marty. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5476. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Florence R. and Rollie H. From: Karl Kleen . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/9/2009 12:28:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Would some member of the group who knows how to do these things, consider adding Memorials for Florence Rankin and Rollie Hemsley to the FIND A GRAVE website? http://www.findagrave.com/index.html You could include photos of their gravestones in their Memorials. That way we could all make a (virtual) visit to their Memorials and access any photos posted thereon. (Someone else might have other photos that they could add?) Several persons of interest already do have Find A Grave Memorials. Karl K. - - - - From the moderator: for example, Bill Wilson and Lois Wilson, where Doug B. posted some photos. - - - - In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Michael F. Margetis" wrote: > > FLORENCE RANKIN'S GRAVE: > In the Spring 2007 issue of "Markings" is an > article about the Washington (DC) Intergroup > (WAIA) locating Florence Rankin's grave. > > It's a touching story about finding her burial > site in a rundown section of the cemetery > (George Washington Cemetery, Adelphi, Maryland) > and raising funds, privately, to purchase a > headstone. Apparently there was no headstone, > just a marker. > > Bob W. and the WAIA archives committee are > doing a fantastic job! > > ROLLIE HEMSLEY'S GRAVE: > Not long ago I learned, from reading old > baseball player bios, that Rollie Hemsley of > Cleveland Indians catcher 1940 anonymity break > fame, was buried at the same cemetery. I live > nearby and an AA friend and I visited both > gravesites recently. Quite an experience. If > anyone is interested in photos I'll be happy > to email them. > > Contact me at: > (mfmargetis at yahoo.com) > > Link to the Markings story, pg 4: > http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_spring07.pdf > > Thanks, > > Mike Margetis > Brunswick, Maryland > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5477. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/9/2009 4:43:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Let us remember though that Bill also wrote somewhere else that visitors to an AA meeting might be surprised by the salty language that sometimes occurred. Unfortunately, I can't find the reference, having keyed in words like swearing, salty language, curses, bad language, strong language, etc., in the Grapevine digital archive. Can anyone point me in the right direction? - - - - To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.comFrom: agengler@wk.netDate: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:45:07 +0000Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage This statement by Bill Wilson can be found on page 3 of "Experience, Strength & Hope," the collection of stories from the first threeeditions of the Big Book: > "Since the audience for the book [Big Book] > is likely to be newcomers, anything from the > point of view of content or style that might > offend or alienate those who are not familiar > with the program should be carefully elim- > inated . . . Profanity, even when mild, > rarely contributes as much as it detracts. > It should be avoided." - - - - > Message 5450 from > (hjfree at fuse.net) asked: > > >I have seen a letter or comment attributed > >to Bill Wilson regarding abusive and vulgar > >lanquage not being appropriate at meetings. > > > >Clues where to look? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5478. . . . . . . . . . . . Re:Other 12 step groups'' use of the 12 steps and 12 traditions From: Mark . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/9/2009 10:36:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Good morning all, My understanding on the responsibility of the offering of permission to reprint AA Conference Approved literature is that the Trustees and appointed directors who are responsible for the organization we know as the AAWS. The AAWS makes the decisions, on a case by case basis, as to the use of or reprinting of AA Conference Approved literature. I could be wrong, but that is what I have deduced from the published minutes of the AAWS. I quote from a portion of the August 2008 AAWS minutes .... "Reprint Requests - Since the April-May 2008 General Service Conference, the A.A.W.S. Board has granted permission/did not object to 36 requests to reprint from A.A. literature, and denied permission (including lack of authority to grant permission) to 28 requests." Mark IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5479. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Transcribing oral interviews. From: secondles . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/8/2009 5:06:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm using Naturally Speaking to transcribe some interviews I had during my research trip to Vermont. You will be surprised (I think) as to how easily it works, and its accuracy. One interesting part is that you can intersperse using your keyboard as often as you like. Keyboard editing is easy or using commands after you get aquainted with many of those. Speaking clearly is the clue when you first set it up. Have fun ! Les - - - - From: "Laurence Holbrook" (email at LaurenceHolbrook.com) Great tip - thanks - on my way to get a copy - By the way, a lot of cell phones will store voice record notes/memos - Instead of 'one button' for email or contacts, I set one button to record - Push the button and I can make notes when I'm driving if I see something interesting or think of something needing attention - Dragon Naturally Speaking ought to be able to transcribe those notes as well - Larry Holbrook Email@LaurenceHolbrook.com (410) 802-3099 - - - - In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "charley.bill" wrote: > > This is especially for Glenn, and anyone else > burdened by lots of interviews to transcribe. > > I went to the doctor recently and after his > exam, he pulled out a microphone and dictated > his report into the machine, gave me a copy > and one for my primary care doc.. He was > using Dragon Naturally Speaking 9.5 and it > only made one error! > > I ran down to Fry's and bought one of the > Professional edition Dragons and started > reading up on what it can do. I have been > back to Fry's to get a small Sony recording > device. > > I think I am now set up to learn how to record > interviews, or transfer tapes to hard disk, > and print the transcript, to have this Dragon > transcribe my entire backlog. > > It says it can do it. I wonder if any one has > any ideas for setting this work up, whether > I will need any more equipment, etc. I would > appreciate your help and will keep you posted > on my progress. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5480. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: SoCal GSR Preamble From: LS31101@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/8/2009 4:12:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The GSR preamble appeared in Box 459 Vol. 35 no.4 Aug/Sept 1989. I don't know if this was the "first" appearance. Gary S. Alt Registrar, Area 67 - - - - In a message dated 1/8/2009 1:42:28 P.M. Central Standard Time, shane.pena@verizon.net writes: Does anyone know the origin of the GSR preamble which is read at monthly District Meetings here in Southern California??D I would appreciate any info you may have. Thanks. Shane P. Archivist, Area 05 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5481. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: SoCal GSR Preamble From: Jocelyn . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/10/2009 5:05:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Would one of you please post a copy of this preamble? I am not (to my knowledge) familiar with it. I went to the 459 Archives to look this up. They do not go back that far. Jocelyn - - - - On Thu, 1/8/09, LS31101@aol.com wrote: From: LS31101@aol.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: SoCal GSR Preamble To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 9:12 PM The GSR preamble appeared in Box 459 Vol. 35 no.4 Aug/Sept 1989. I don't know if this was the "first" appearance. Gary S. Alt Registrar, Area 67 - - - - In a message dated 1/8/2009 1:42:28 P.M. Central Standard Time, shane.pena@verizon. net writes: Does anyone know the origin of the GSR preamble which is read at monthly District Meetings here in Southern California?? D I would appreciate any info you may have. Thanks. Shane P. Archivist, Area 05 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5482. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Florence R. and Rollie H. From: Michael F. Margetis . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/10/2009 11:54:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Karl, Rollie was already on "Find A Grave", I added a photo that is "pending approval" from the website. Hopefully that will be viewable soon. I created one for Florence and submitted a photo, so that should be viewable now. Remember when looking up Florence use Kalhoun as her last name, not Rankin. - Mike Margetis Brunswick, Maryland --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Kleen" wrote: > > Would some member of the group who knows how to > do these things, consider adding Memorials for > Florence Rankin and Rollie Hemsley to the FIND A > GRAVE website? > > http://www.findagrave.com/index.html > > You could include photos of their gravestones > in their Memorials. That way we could all make > a (virtual) visit to their Memorials and access > any photos posted thereon. (Someone else might > have other photos that they could add?) > > Several persons of interest already do have > Find A Grave Memorials. > > Karl K. > > - - - - > > From the moderator: for example, Bill Wilson > and Lois Wilson, where Doug B. posted some > photos. > > - - - - > > In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, > "Michael F. Margetis" mfmargetis@ wrote: > > > > FLORENCE RANKIN'S GRAVE: > > In the Spring 2007 issue of "Markings" is an > > article about the Washington (DC) Intergroup > > (WAIA) locating Florence Rankin's grave. > > > > It's a touching story about finding her burial > > site in a rundown section of the cemetery > > (George Washington Cemetery, Adelphi, Maryland) > > and raising funds, privately, to purchase a > > headstone. Apparently there was no headstone, > > just a marker. > > > > Bob W. and the WAIA archives committee are > > doing a fantastic job! > > > > ROLLIE HEMSLEY'S GRAVE: > > Not long ago I learned, from reading old > > baseball player bios, that Rollie Hemsley of > > Cleveland Indians catcher 1940 anonymity break > > fame, was buried at the same cemetery. I live > > nearby and an AA friend and I visited both > > gravesites recently. Quite an experience. If > > anyone is interested in photos I'll be happy > > to email them. > > > > Contact me at: > > mfmargetis@ (mfmargetis at yahoo.com) > > > > Link to the Markings story, pg 4: > > http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_spring07.pdf > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike Margetis > > Brunswick, Maryland > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5483. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Florence R. and Rollie H. From: charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/13/2009 1:35:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII For Rollie Hemsley, search in the famous names section of Find a Grave for "Ralston Hemsley." It has been there since 2006. Charles from California --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Michael F. Margetis wrote: From: Michael F. Margetis Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Florence R. and Rollie H. To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 8:54 PM Karl, Rollie was already on "Find A Grave", I added a photo that is "pending approval" from the website. Hopefully that will be viewable soon. I created one for Florence and submitted a photo, so that should be viewable now. Remember when looking up Florence use Kalhoun as her last name, not Rankin. - Mike Margetis Brunswick, Maryland IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5484. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Florence R. and Rollie H. From: Karl Kleen . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/13/2009 2:19:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Silkworth and Dowling on "Find a Grave" --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Michael F. Margetis" wrote: > > Karl, > > Rollie was already on "Find A Grave", I added > a photo that is "pending approval" from the > website. Hopefully that will be viewable soon. > > I created one for Florence and submitted a > photo, so that should be viewable now. Remember > when looking up Florence use Kalhoun as her > last name, not Rankin. > > - Mike Margetis > Brunswick, Maryland Thank you Mike -- your photo of Rollie's gravestone is indeed viewable now. Earlier I had found the Find A Grave Memorials for Bill, Dr. Bob and their wives. Dr. & Antoinette B Silkworth have Memorials also at: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Silkworth&GScid=99997& GRid\ =11339789& [2] and http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSvcid=19285&GRid=11339783& Fr Edward P. Dowling's Memorial can be found at: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSvcid=19285&GRid=16958125& Thank you for adding the material that you did! Karl K. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5485. . . . . . . . . . . . Richard Peabody find a grave From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/13/2009 9:57:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=13530276 One of the members of this group needs to make a wiki entry for him. I don't have time. I still would like to post his photo. LD Pierce aabibliography.com IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5486. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: SoCal GSR Preamble From: Joseph HerronJr. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/14/2009 1:21:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII THE GSR PREAMBLE "WE ARE THE GENERAL SERVICE REPRESENTATIVES. WE ARE THE LINK IN THE CHAIN OF COMMUNICATION FOR OUR GROUPS WITH THE GENERAL SERVICE CONFERENCE AND THE WORLD OF A.A. WE REALIZE THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY IN A.A. IS A LOVING GOD AS HE MAY EXPRESS HIMSELF IN OUR GROUP CONSCIENCE. AS TRUSTED SERVANTS, OUR JOB IS TO BRING INFORMATION TO OUR GROUPS IN ORDER THAT THEY CAN REACH AN INFORMED GROUP CONSCIENCE. IN PASSING ALONG THIS GROUP CONSCIENCE, WE ARE HELPING TO MAINTAIN THE UNITY AND STRENGTH SO VITAL TO OUR FELLOWSHIP. LET US, THEREFORE, HAVE THE PATIENCE AND TOLERANCE TO LISTEN WHILE OTHERS SHARE, THE COURAGE TO SPEAK UP WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING TO SHARE, AND THE WISDOM TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR OUR GROUPS AS A WHOLE." --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Jocelyn wrote: From: Jocelyn Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: SoCal GSR Preamble To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 2:05 PM Would one of you please post a copy of this preamble? I am not (to my knowledge) familiar with it. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5487. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: SoCal GSR Preamble From: Dolores . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/15/2009 6:13:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dear Joseph, thank you for the GSR preamble. It is a good reminder that we are trusted servants. I find at times when younger members join service and have no sponsor they tend to present AA as a business and not a fellowship. I will pass this preamble on for sure. Thanks, Dolores CER Continental European Region - - - - From: Cindy Miller (cm53 at earthlink.net) Why is this called the Southern California GSR Preamble? It was used here in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania at a District Meeting as recently as 10 years ago. - - - - Original message from: Joseph Herron Jr. To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:21 AM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: SoCal GSR Preamble THE GSR PREAMBLE "WE ARE THE GENERAL SERVICE REPRESENTATIVES. WE ARE THE LINK IN THE CHAIN OF COMMUNICATION FOR OUR GROUPS WITH THE GENERAL SERVICE CONFERENCE AND THE WORLD OF A.A. WE REALIZE THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY IN A.A. IS A LOVING GOD AS HE MAY EXPRESS HIMSELF IN OUR GROUP CONSCIENCE. AS TRUSTED SERVANTS, OUR JOB IS TO BRING INFORMATION TO OUR GROUPS IN ORDER THAT THEY CAN REACH AN INFORMED GROUP CONSCIENCE. IN PASSING ALONG THIS GROUP CONSCIENCE, WE ARE HELPING TO MAINTAIN THE UNITY AND STRENGTH SO VITAL TO OUR FELLOWSHIP. LET US, THEREFORE, HAVE THE PATIENCE AND TOLERANCE TO LISTEN WHILE OTHERS SHARE, THE COURAGE TO SPEAK UP WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING TO SHARE, AND THE WISDOM TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR OUR GROUPS AS A WHOLE." IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5488. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: SoCal GSR Preamble From: charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/18/2009 2:24:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The GSR Preamble We are the General Service Representatives. We are the link in the chain of communication for our groups with the General Service Conference and the world of A.A. We realize the ultimate authority is a loving God as he may express Himself in our Group Conscience. As trusted servants, our job is to bring information to our groups in order that they can reach an informed group conscience. In passing along this group conscience, we are helping to maintain the unity and strength so vital to our fellowship. Let us, therefore, have the patience and tolerance to listen while others share, the courage to speak up when we have something to share, and the wisdom to do what is right for our group and A.A. as a whole. History: The GSR Preamble as stated above, got its start here in Southern California and Area 9 in particular. During the time that Genevieve L. was the Panel 24 (1974-75) Delegate of California Mid-Southern Area 9, someone came up with a Preamble to read at Area meetings which was quite a strong directive to GSRs making them the ultimate authority over Alcoholics Anonymous. Gene asked Goldene L., who was the Area Treasurer at the time, to come up with something to soften this Preamble. She did and she came up with the one they are still using today. Goldene L. would later go on and serve as Area 9 Panel 28 (1978-79) Delegate. The Central Intergroup Office of the Desert, Palm Springs, California printed the G.S.R. Preamble in its May 1988 issue of their newsletter. The GSO staff picks up on it and ran short article and reprinted the preamble in the August/September 1989 issue of Box 459. This preamble is being used in many of the Areas throughout the United States and Canada today. (source: Goldene L. interview, March 2, 2004 & Box 459 ) Hope this helps charles from california - - - - From: Cindy Miller (cm53 at earthlink.net) Why is this called the Southern California GSR Preamble? It was used here in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania at a District Meeting as recently as 10 years ago. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5489. . . . . . . . . . . . How AA began in Richmond, Indiana (via Jim Burwell) From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/16/2009 4:26:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Apologies to those who don't have the good fortune to live near Richmond, Indiana (the gateway to sobriety for the entire mid-western United States!) but this local document "History of Alcoholics Anonymous in Richmond, Indiana, and vicinity" has just today become available for viewing and/or downloading on our Area 23 Website. http://www.area23aa.org/a/view/Main/Richmond This 50-page PDF Document can be downloaded with one click! But if you would like to research a certain page - perhaps your home town of Greenville, Ohio, or perhaps, Muncie, Indiana, you can simply go to the appropriate page and print it up. Much thanks to Mike H., for making this process possible! Bob S. - - - - From the moderator: And also see the articles on early A.A. in other parts of Indiana collected at "How A.A. Came to Indiana" at: http://hindsfoot.org/Nhome.html This article that Bob S. has just posted is a detailed fifty-page account of the beginnings of A.A. in Richmond, Indiana and the surround- ing parts of Indiana and Ohio. The town of Richmond is on the state line, roughly halfway between Indianapolis and Dayton, Ohio. The story began when Bob B., a paint store owner in Richmond, got sober by visiting a business associate in Philadelphia, a man named JIM BURWELL who had gotten sober in 1938 and had started A.A. in that city. Jim's story in the Big Book is called "The Vicious Cycle" (it is on page 219 in the current 4th edition). Jim was the early New York A.A. group's first "self-proclaimed atheist," the one who insisted that the phrase "as we understood Him" had to be added to the reference to God in Steps 3 and 11. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5490. . . . . . . . . . . . Cebra Graves biography From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/22/2009 1:18:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I am trying to find a biography, or at least an obituary, of Cebra Graves. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Bob S. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5491. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Cebra Graves biography From: jlobdell54 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/22/2009 8:37:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Culture Alcohol and Society Quarterly, Vol. 3, No. 7 (April-June 2008): 8-16 http://dl.lib.brown.edu/libweb/collections/kirk/casq/ PROGRESS REPORT: THE MESSENGERS TO EBBY: CEBRA G. Cebra Quackenbush G. (1898-1979) was from Bennington, the son of Judge Collins Millard G. (1872-1954). He attended Williams College for a year before enlisting in the Army in World War I, later read law in his father's office, attended Columbia in NYC in 1924, acted on Broadway 1924-27, went back to Vermont, served as State's Attorney in the Bennington district 1928-1932, then State Senator 1933-1935. He married five times, the last time to Lucette Caron Culbert in France, where he lived from 1954 till his death on January 1, 1979, at the age of 80. He met Lucette in the early 1920s through her brother Claude Caron, whose daughter Leslie (b. 1931) may be named after Leslie Cornell (I have written Claude's nephew, Lucette's son, Frédéric [Ted] Culbert, on this). In one of his Broadway stints, Cebe G. acted with Elmer Cornell, a cousin of Shep's and brother of actress Leslie Cornell. Cebe's son Jack Y. C. G., from his third marriage, was a year behind me at Yale (both of us in Saybrook College) and I've been in touch with him. Cebe's brother Van Vechten Breese G. (b. 1906), Brown 1929, still lives in Bennington. I have been given access to the transcript of a recording Bill W. made of Cebra's reminiscences in 1954, so I am using the proper AA form of reference to Cebra G.] The name Cebra reputedly goes back in the Quackenbush (Cebe's mother's) family to "El Cebra" (true name and surname unknown), a patriot in the Dutch War for Independence (1567-1609), who was whipped by the Spaniards ("given stripes") so that he was said to have looked like a zebra ("Cebra"). The surname Cebra appears on Long Island before the American Revolution, and it presumably entered the Quackenbush family from the Cebra family then rather than in the days of the House of Orange-Nassau. Cebra G.'s first marriage was in 1921 at St Paul's Episcopal Church in Troy NY to Carolyn Caldwell of Troy, daughter of James Henry Caldwell, President of the Troy Trust Company. She was a 1917 graduate of the Misses Masters' School at Dobbs Ferry. Cebra is described as a graduate of the Westminster School and of Williams College. Recent research in Vermont has given us the name of Cebra's second wife Lenore Pettit (b. 1907), later a member of the Jackson Pollock world. After her 1933 divorce from Cebe, granted by Magistrate Collins M. G[-----] she m. Howard Baer whom she divorced in 1944. I tried to find a connection with the Margaret Pettit who is listed as the wife of Cebe's eventual brother-in-law Claude Caron and mother of Leslie Caron (b. 1931), but it is apparently a different family. On Lenore Pettit later on, here is an excerpt from the transcript of Tape 2 of an Interview January 14, 1976, with Matsumi (Mike) Kanemitsu (1922-1992) who eventually married Lenore Pettit (transcript in the Los Angeles Art Community Group Project, Smithsonian, Washington DC): "In any case, after Willett Street studio I move to Front Street. Front Street is right off the Fulton Fish Market, between [it and] Wall Street. And I rent the second-floor studio. This lady rent the whole top floor of the building, and I get to know her. We started going together, but we lived in the same building. Her name was Lenore Pettit, and she was a fashion model, and she just get divorced to the senator from Vermont; I forgot his name [State Senator Cebra Q. G.]. Then she married to commercial artist named Howard Baer, and that end in divorce. So we started going together, and she have a house in East Hampton. And so, naturally, I go with her and help her to fix the house, carpentry and all this. And those days, East Hampton is artists move in, and the first person I met is our neighbor, Leo Castelli; later he open a gallery. Leo was there, and Bob Motherwell – he bought a place – and they were our neighbors. And across the pond, called Georgeca-Pond, is Alphonso Ossorio. And in those day, I remember Franz Kline and de Kooning rent house at Bridgehampton, so I get to see them very often in East Hampton in the summertime. Then de Kooning and Franz and Jackson Pollock, I naturally see often there in the summertime. And then [they were] closely associated with Harold Rosenberg, art critic, and Clement Greenberg." Cebe's third marriage was in 1936 to Mary Ormsby Sutton of 1170 Fifth Avenue in New York (residence of her aunt, Edna Sutton) and of Pittsburgh (residence of her father J. Blair Sutton). Her mother, Mary Phillips Sutton, was no longer alive. Mary graduated from the Fermata School in Aiken, South Carolina, in 1931 and from Sarah Lawrence in 1933. She was presented to society at a dinner dance at the Allegheny Country Club in Pittsburgh in December 1933, by her father and stepmother. The G.-Sutton wedding was conducted by Justice of the Peace Leo Mintzer in Harrison NY, with Mr and Mrs Elwood Kemp of New York City as the witnesses. Again, Cebra is described as a graduate of Westminster and Williams. He is also described as having been a State Senator in Vermont 1933-35. Mary Ormsby Sutton (G.) Moore was born July 16, 1915, and died in Sewickley PA on October 13, 2001. She was the mother of John (Jack) Yates Cebra G., Yale '62, Cebra's son. They were divorced in the later 1940s. On August 15, 1950, died in Southampton, Long Island, New York, the former Barbara Corlies, Cebe's fourth wife, Barbara Corlies G., daughter of the late Arthur and Maude Robinson Corlies and (fourth) wife of Cebra G. She was born in 1909/1910 and had previously been married to Allen Hall. Note that Jack G. has lived in Easthampton much of his life (and lives there now). Lenore lived in the Hamptons. So did Barbara. Cebra served up to the rank of Lt. Commander in the U.S.N. in World War II, used his G. I. Bill to go to Columbia School of General Studies and then the Columbia Graduate School, receiving his B.A. and then at least his M.A. in Classics. From 1946 to 1951 he was an Instructor in Classical Studies (Humanities) in Columbia School of General Studies After his fourth wife died, he reopened his acquaintance with Lucette Caron (Culbert), whom he had met in France around 1920-21. After 1954 he lived the rest of his life in France, where his son Jack visited him from time to time. Jack (b. 1940) recalls that his father lived a while in Pownal on Clermont Avenue, and even in his fifties, his parents (who died in 1954 and 1955) would still smell his breath and wait up for him if he stayed with them. He thinks his father was drinking during the brief fourth marriage. When his father was in this country and Jack was about 13 or 14, Jack asked his father to play "ball" – to play "catch" – and his father did, even though he had a hangover. Eventually he had to lie down, and Jack asked him if it would help if he placed wet washcloths over his forehead, which he did. Eventually his father asked Jack, "What do you think of your old man?" and Jack answered, "I just think you're sick, Dad" – and whatever he meant, his father told him afterward that his reply was a major step on his father's road to sobriety. When Jack's parents' marriage (Cebra's third) was breaking up after World War II, Jack, as a young boy, tried to mediate between them whever they had an argument – "I tried to get them back together" – and when the marriage failed his mother went back to Pittsburgh, where she was brought up. His father renewed an acquaintance he had made in France thirty years before – he had met Lucette Caron (Culbert) while fishing in Saumur with his friend and her brother Claude Caron, for champagne bottles. I believe, after his fourth wife died, Cebe went over to France, looked Lucette up, found she was a widow, asked her when she would marry him, she said "Dimanche!" and they went to Mont St Michel. He came back to the States thereafter, and then returned to France for the last quarter- century of his life. He told Jack that his desire for alcohol wasn't a thirst, "it was a hunger." When in France, he went to a nunnery, for their "cure" – which involved giving him as much wine as he wanted (up to six bottles a day), to keep him off "alcohol." It was at this point he decided he didn't want to die drunk in an alcoholic ward and put his mind to being sober. "You see." Jack told me, "he would be a pretty terrific success at whatever he tried – actor, attorney, state senator, soldier and sailor, scholar and college teacher – and then he'd get bored with it. He could have been a U. S. Senator if he'd set his mind to it, but he never did." But he set his mind to being sober, and after spending time with Bill W. in 1954, he stayed sober till his death on New Year's Day 1979. His pictures as an undergraduate at Williams show a startlingly handsome man. I have not seen photographs of him later in life. A transcript of Bill W.'s conversation with Cebra G. and his (fifth) wife, Lucette, is in the Alcoholics Anonymous General Service Office Archives in New York. By the courtesy of the Archivist, Amy Filiatreau, a copy of the transcript was made available to me. I had previously listened to recordings of several of Ebby T.'s talks in which he claimed, unconvincingly to my ear, that Cebra and Shep, who brought the message to him, were both former drinking companions. Cebra's own testimony (in this transcript) says that he was at least a sometime drinker with Ebby: I remain unconvinced on Shep. Here is a summary of the relevant portions of the transcript, not in direct quotation. Cebra first saw Rowland Hazard at a party at Cebra's parents' house in Bennington in the summer of 1934. Shortly thereafter (perhaps in July) Cebra and his father had an argument, with Cebra's father saying something to the effect of "Bennington is too small for both of us," whereupon Cebra walked out of his office, without even locking the door, and started walking toward Williamstown (Massa- chusetts). After he reached the next city, Rowland drove up, presumably by accident, and asked where he was going. On finding out that he didn't know, he picked him up and drove him to the house of Professor Philip Marshall Brown, apparently an Oxford Group friend of Rowland's. They talked and the subject of alcoholism came up – and Rowland and Phil Brown virtually guaranteed that if Cebra followed the principles of the Oxford Group, he wouldn't drink alcoholically. He became active in the Oxford Group, toned down his drinking, went down to New York and went to OG meetings there, and after returning to what he considered normal drinking, he went back to Vermont, tried to make amends to his parents and follow the Oxford Group principles. After this return to Bennington, he visited Rowland in Glastonbury, and at the same time Shep was visiting there. Shep was very active in the Oxford Group. They were swimming in Rowland's pool, and talking about carrying the Oxford Group message. Ebby came into Cebe's mind – he had played golf (and had drinks) with Ebby in Manchester – and he decided they should carry the message to Ebby. The chronology of Cebe's recollections is not entirely clear, but it would appear that this was after Ebby had come up before Cebe's father in court, and after Cebe and Rowland had gone to Cebe's father to try to explain the Oxford Group principles to Cebe's father and to persuade him not to send Ebby to Brattleboro (jail). Cebe's father apparently said he'd make Rowland and Cebe responsible for Ebby (Rowland was closer in age to Cebe's father than to Cebe). Cebe recalls that he didn't know much about alcoholism at this time and he didn't have the impression that Rowland knew much about it either. Shep and Rowland were skeptical about visiting Ebby (I would guess Rowland wanted to be out of this), but finally Cebe convinced Shep to come with him to Ebby's house, where they found Ebby on the back veranda, surrounded by bottles, in a filthy suit, holding his head in his hands. So Cebe walks up and says something like, "Hi! Ebby – You having fun?" – to which Ebby responds something like, "Go to Hell!" Cebe answers to the effect that "You don't have to live like this anymore." They take his (only) suit down to Manchester Center, rout the tailor out (it's Sunday afternoon), get the suit cleaned, get Ebby cleaned up, take him to a restaurant, and talk to him about the Oxford Group. This was (by Cebe's guess) in August 1934. [Cebe's brother Van recalls Ebby as a friend of Cebe's, but not Shep, confirming my impression that when Ebby said in talks he had drinking experience with Cebra and Shep he was overstating it.] A statement by Van G. to Lester Cole, a student of the Vermont origins of A.A., made in 2007, has important implications for understanding what happened when Ebby, that day in 1934, was released by Van's (and Cebe's) father into Rowland's custody. The statement was simply that Collins G. was not a Judge but was sitting as a Family Court Magistrate. (Van was a lawyer at that time and may have been an officer of the court: he was certainly in town and aware of what was happening with his father and brother and brother's "friend.") The Family Court Magistrate sat not in criminal cases but in determining sanity or insanity for purposes of incarceration in the State Hospital. If so, it wasn't the jail at Brattleboro but the hospital at Brattleboro that Ebby had to fear. But instead Ebby went down to New York, to Calvary House (not Calvary Mission, according to Cebe), went to the Meetings, met the Oxford Group people, and joined the Oxford Group. From there Cebra's conversation goes to more of his own and Bill's experience with the Oxford Group and the early days of A.A., including some mention of Ebby later on. The story of Rowland's work with Jung (or Jung's with Rowland) seems to have come from Cebe to Bill in this conversation. Cebe recalls Rowland's telling him (during an afternoon spent with Rowland and Philip Marshall Brown) that he knew he had been having trouble with liquor, had tried a lot of places, and had gone to see Dr. Jung. (Cebe says he can't remember the year this occurred, but he thinks it was 1930 or 1931.) The mention of Dr. Jung intrigued Cebe, because he had read The Psychology of the Unconscious (in the Hinkle translation) and thought it a fascinating book. But, in 1954, Cebe recalled wondering how Jung could psychoanalyze anyone, so to speak, from German into English, especially Jung, with his symbolism, race consciousness, all that sort of thing, and how could Jung, no matter how smart he was, understand the "race-consciousness" of an Anglo-Saxon born in America? Rowland told him that after he had been going to Jung, more or less successfully, for a year or so, Jung discharged him – and in a month, he got drunk again, and came back in a state of panic or despair – and that was when Jung told him he needed a religious conversion. At this point, Cebe's chronology becomes somewhat (or even more) confused, as he is under the impression that all this had been relatively recent, perhaps a matter of months between his leaving Jung and his interaction with Cebe in Vermont in 1933-34. In any case, on a drive from South Williamstown to Pittsfield, Massachusetts, Rowland had taken his usual bottle along as a companion, and that, all of a sudden, he had heard a voice saying to him, "You will never take a drink again." He took the bottle and threw it into the bushes, and that was the story Rowland told Cebe at Philip Marshall Brown's house in July or August 1934. At this point in his reminiscence to Bill, Cebe remarks that he thought Christianity was all very well – he didn't disbelieve in it – but Jung was a very considerable person indeed, and flinging a bottle away was something no alcoholic was likely to think of with the monkey on his back. He remembered asking Rowland about the hangover, and being told more or less that Rowland could bear it – which was more than Cebe thought he ever could. In fact, he tells a story about going to an Oxford Group meeting and commenting on a young lady there, to the effect "There's a good looking doll," and being told that he was offending against the laws of Purity, and responding to the effect, "Purity, my eye! I joined this outfit to get over a hangover." (On the "good looking doll," we should remember Cebe was once a Broadway actor, and he was married five times. He remarked in his conversation with Bill that he didn't do well with the rarefied spiritual atmosphere of the Oxford Group.) We can see that much of Bill's information on Rowland may have come from Cebe (unless of course Cebe's came in a roundabout from Bill). Three other points emerge from the conversation, besides what has been noted here and in our last issue. One is that Cebe joined AA in New York in 1940. One is that it was Cebe (not Shep and certainly not Rowland) who knew Ebby before 1933: Cebe recalls playing golf with Ebby, and says he had known him for many years in Manchester. And one is that Cebe remembered Bill telling him, at Calvary, that the Oxford Group was fine, one couldn't complain about its principles, but he (Bill) didn't think it was the right thing for alco- holics. Here is a brief summary of Cebe's account of his introduction to A.A. in 1940. Cebe reports that he really knew nothing about A.A. until 1940, when he was hypnotized in an effort to get over drinking and had promptly gotten drunk again. He saw a friend of his, an older woman, whose husband had died from cirrhosis of the liver and other alcohol-related problems, at the age of 92. She asked him what was wrong and he told her about the failure of hypnotism to cure his drinking. She asked him if he remembered Morgan R. and how he used to stumble and fall around? He said he did. She said Morgan hadn't had a drink in several years. Cebe went to see Morgan, who was busy, but gave him the name of Bert T. He went to see Bert and went to a meeting that night and saw Ebby there, at the clubhouse on 24th Street that had just opened up. He expected to see people from the Bowery, but that didn't bother him, because he figured that was where he belonged anyway. He reports he had no trouble accepting the first step because he was licked when he got there and seriously felt he was crazy – so he was happy to find he was an alcoholic and amazed that there were people who could do something about it. (Cebe carried the message to Ebby in 1934; he came to A.A. in 1940; he did not finally get sober until 1954.) In a letter written to me in June 2008, Jack writes "My father, Cebra Quackenbush G[---], who was born on August 26, 1898, once told me that if I wanted to know what his upbringing had been like, I should read Samuel Butler's The Way of All Flesh, the satire on Victorian ways. Being the eldest of Collins Millard and Florence Quackenbush G[-----]`s four sons, who lived in Bennington, Vermont, he was, I suppose, Ernest Pontifex, though the parallel is by no means exact. As with Ernest, though, things ended happily for him. His last 28 years were spent with the love of his life, Lucette Caron, in France, a country that because of its intellectual bent and broad- mindedness, he far preferred to America. "He was classically educated, at the Westminster preparatory school, and was a fine teacher, scholar, and linguist, though he was also a soldier, in France in World War One, a Naval officer in World War Two, an actor on Broadway, in the 1920s, and a State's Attorney and State Senator in Vermont in the `30s. Concerning his many-sided career, he told me that once he learned the ropes, he became bored. "His `greatest trick' was to have completed, in just a few years following World War Two, two years of undergraduate work – he studied at Williams in 1916, before enlisting, and spent a year at Columbia in 1924 – and his Master's and Doctorate requirements, while teaching Greek, Latin, and the Humanities in Columbia's Classics Department. Had he had his druthers, he told me, he would gladly have been a professional student his entire life. "He did not make much of his drinking, nor of his work with A.A., with me. I only saw him drunk once in my life, when I was twelve, on a summer visit to Bennington…. I had inveigled him into playing catch and, nursing a hangover, after a few minutes of this, he had to excuse himself to lie down. As he lay there, he asked, `What do you think of your old man?' I put a cold washcloth on his forehead, and I said I simply thought he was sick. It's probably the best thing I've ever done. "It was his view, too, that he was sick. I've learned that in going through some of his papers. There was wine on the table whenever I visited him and my stepmother in Paris and Urrugne, in the Basque country, where they had a house. Everyone drank it but he. In fact, he said he thought that I drank more than he did, day in and day out. "He was of a religious bent, throughout his life, persuaded, as I think he was, by St. Thomas Aquinas's logic, and enamored, as he was, of Latin, from an early age. He was interested in Buddhism, too, but, in the end, he said that when it came to religious matters, he was `a Westerner.' His religiosity played a large part in his battle with alcoholism. He converted to Roman Catholicism while in a clinic at Dax over the Christmas holidays in 1954. In the end, he said, it was `the sight of Sister Marie Joseph standing over my bed and smiling down at me" that had accomplished it.' "'I feel it impossible for me to describe that smile,' he wrote in an account he wrote at the time. `It was not the smile of a professional greeter; it was not one of amusement at the plight into which I had gotten myself; but it was one of compassion, sweetness, and perhaps, above all, it was a smile of perfect confidence that I would get well, and gave me a feeling of hope that I shall not attempt to describe. I have been to many hospitals and sanitariums to recover from alcoholism, and, on several occasions, have been treated in a perfectly kindly fashion, but I am not conscious that I have ever been received as above….' "'I am certain that everyone who has been converted towards or away from any belief or way of life has a strong desire to understand what has happened to him and to tell others of the great event, to the end that they, too, may be brought to peace, happiness, and a useful life. I have read many such accounts and, though it never occurred to me to doubt the fact of the conversion, I have never been able to see how it was accomplished: i.e., the one converted seems never to have had anything to do with his change of heart. At least, so it was in my case.' "'Not for one minute were all my problems solved, but from Christmas Day I was convinced that, despite all my sins, (1) I could be saved, and also (2) all hatreds and resentments vanished in a moment. I wish to emphasize that, in so far as I was conscious, my will played no part in either of these feelings. I am certain that the first was largely inspired by a terrible fear, but I have not felt it before; and, as for the second, it was as automatic as the love that one suddenly experiences for a person towards whom one is unconsciously drawn. I wish to emphasize that I endeavored to strike no bargain with my Maker: I did not say, feel, or promise, actually on in effect, "Lord, if you will save me from a living death, I will give up my dislikes and hatreds." I merely knew that the people whom I felt had offended me acted as they had because they could not help it, and I no longer considered them blameable in any way….' "'Nevertheless, if it can be said that one person converts another, it was not the logic of Thomas Aquinas, but the smile of Sister Marie Joseph and my subsequent treatment by my Catholic brothers and sisters that melted and changed my heart and mind….' "'If a man who is truly religious is guided by God to say the right thing to those in need of help – and I firmly believe this – le Chanoine Gayan could not have struck a more sympathetic chord in me than he did in his counsel after my confession. He did not give me one bit of specific advice about avoiding the sins I had confessed, but spoke to me only of the Grace of God and that I must always remember I was completely dependent on it. Intellectually, I must have known this doctrine for years and have even lectured on it, but I never understood it, as I did when le Chanoine Gayan spoke to me for two or three minutes on the afternoon of January 1 [1955].' "He read from the prayer book he received from Sister Marie Joseph every day. He died at the age of 81 on December 31, 1979, in a hospital in Bayonne (near Urrugne) as the result of a hole in a lung that caused him to suffocate. Undoubtedly he would have lived longer in America. His younger brother, Van, who lives in Bennington, is 102! But he was, he said, ready to get off the merry-go-round. When I last saw him, he was sitting in bed having some chocolate. `Don't worry about me – I've got a good thing going,' he said with good cheer. "While I'm sure Sister Marie Joseph's smile played a big part, I think he was really saved by Lucette Caron, his fifth wife. Their story is fascinating. He met her in St. Moritz while fishing for champagne bottles in the mid-`20s, through the instance of her brother, Claude, who had admired my father's dexterity. When it came time to leave Paris – he and his first wife had been footed to a trip there by her father – he told Lucette that he'd look her up in twenty-five years. Twenty-five years later – and without a word having been exchanged between them in that time – he sent her a telegram, "J'arrive" ["I'm coming"]. "Having lived an interesting life after a brief marriage in the `20s to another American, she was beguiled, but worried too, on receiving his telegram. He had been very handsome, yes, but that was twenty-five years ago. Would he still have his hair, his teeth? She asked her son, Teddy Culbert, what she should do, and he advised that she meet the bus at Les Invalides, which she did. My father and she took up where they left off, and soon were off to Mont St Michel and a life together. "Even France Dimanche, generally a scandal magazine, was touched, and wrote it up. In that article, I think, Lucette was quoted as saying that while she went out with Frenchmen, she always married Americans. They were a compelling couple: he, the handsome, worldly intellectual whose encyclopedic knowledge of history was much admired in France, and she, the mercurial journalist (Paris-Soir, Paris Match, Mademoiselle) who had been a Captain in the Resistance, and who was described once as `one of the five tyrants of the fashion world.' My father loved it that she was not a reformer, as apparently some of his American wives had been. With nothing to rebel against, the decision was up to him. Give it up or die in a crise alcoolique. When my father told her he would give up drinking if she would return to the church, Lucette said she would, and off she went to confession – her first in many, many years. With a smile, he told me she had said, when the priest asked what she would like to confess, "Well, I haven't done anything that anyone else hasn't done …" [Note: Lucette Caron was the translator for at least one French film made in Morocco in the early 1920s and also of Michael Arlen's Le Feutre Vert (1928). She was born February 17, 1898. Her brother Claude married an American dancer, Margaret Petit, and their daughter is Leslie Claire Margaret Caron (b. July 1931). Teddy Culbert, Lucette's son by her first marriage, still lives in France.] Cebra G.'s Religious Beliefs: Text of Carbon Copy of Document [Undated]: I believe in an all-powerful and benign force that has ordained a system of immutable laws by which the universe is governed. When these laws do not seem to operate, it is merely because they are not at all, or imperfectly, understood.. I believe that our well-being, mental, physical and spiritual, proceeds from a conformance with these laws, consciously or unconsciously. I do not believe in sin in the sense that it is an offence against some deity, but that it consists of a refusal or inability to keep the laws that govern our every thought and action. I do not believe in a personal God who takes an Interest in our individual behaviour, regardless of our own attitude in the matter, but I do believe that by an act of will or desire we can make ourselves a part of the orderly harmonies of the universe, and that by so doing,' the ears of some of us will be attuned to a celestial music. It is by this conscious desire to accept the universe that we draw to ourselves those qualities and conditions which can result in the good life for each of us. I believe that the measure of each human action should be whether or not our lives tend to be permanently enhanced thereby. I believe that the past should be without regard, except for whatever pleasant memories it may hold for us, or warnings with respect to our future conduct, and that regret is a luxury that the human race can ill afford. I believe that all men are brothers and that this is .a fact unwise to ignore. I believe that there are many errors but no sins, and that repentance should be limited to a decision to act in a wiser and maturer manner in the future, should a similar occasion of error arise. I believe in an afterlife of some sort, the details of which I am unable to understand, but whether individual or collective survival, I dare not speculate. I believe neither in salvation or damnation in the conventional sense, except in so far as they are self-decreed. The duration of each is a matter of individual choice. I also believe that the form which our after life will take will be largely determined by the use we make of the one we have. - - - - > From: rstonebraker212@comcast.net > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:18:44 +0000 > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Cebra Graves biography > > I am trying to find a biography, or at least > an obituary, of Cebra Graves. Any help would > be greatly appreciated. > > Bob S. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5492. . . . . . . . . . . . William M., Tools for Fools From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/22/2009 7:18:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Anybody know anything about this book? Alcoholics Anonymous Book: "Tools For Fools" 1971 by William M. ld pierce aabibliography.com - - - - From the moderator -- I dug up a little more info, although I know nothing about the book: William Musser, Tools for Fools: For Alcoholics and Other Human Beings First printing: M and M Publishing, Minneapolis, 1971, over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Full-bound gold buckram, brown titles, 87 pages Paperback version: Table Publishing Co., Plymouth, Minnesota, 1978 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5493. . . . . . . . . . . . AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/23/2009 7:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The Spiritual Awakenings Group of Bernardsville, New Jersey presents two great presentations on AA history & pre-AA history: “The History of the AA book ‘Twelve Steps & Twelve Traditions’ and what AA was like in the N.Y.C. Area from 1949 to 1959” with Matt D. from East Ridge NY AND “A Re-Enactment of a Washingtonian Temperance Meeting” with April K. from Lebanon Township NJ on Saturday, February 7th, 2009 from 1:00PM – 5:00PM at the Fairmont Presbyterian Church Community House 247 County Route 517 (across from the Fairmont Cemetery) Califon, New Jersey 07830 Matt D. is the son-in-law of Tom P. Tom helped AA co-founder Bill W. write and edit AA’s “Twelve Steps & Twelve Traditions”(1952), the stories in the second edition of the Big Book (1955), and “Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age” (1957), and was a major participant at the AA World Service Office in N.Y.C. from 1949 to 1959. Tom was also sponsored at different times by AA’s co-founders Dr. Bob and Bill W. Matt has spoken at length with Tom and has studied all of Tom’s writings and talks about that period of time in AA history. The Washingtonians were a temperance society in the mid-1800s that, in the first five years of their existence, helped approximately 500,000 alcoholics. Five years later they self-destructed, never to be heard from again. Bill W. read a book about them and saw that AA was having the same problems that caused the demise of the Washingtonians so he developed the Twelve Traditions to assure AA’s future. IMPORTANT - WE WILL BE PASSING A SELF- SUPPORTING COLLECTION BASKET TO COVER EXPENSES AND NO COFFEE WILL BE SERVED. For more info please call Barefoot Bill at 201-232-8749 (cell). For a copy of the flyer, please go to http://www.justloveaudio.com and then click on "events" and then scroll down to this event. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5494. . . . . . . . . . . . Photos of Hank Parkhurst, Rowland Hazard, Jimmy Burwell From: Lee . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/25/2009 3:50:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello friends, Has anyone a clue as to where to find/view photos of any of these people: Hank Parkhurst, Rowland Hazard, Jimmy Burwell other than the standard ONE of each that can be found everywhere? Thanks, Lee Email address (FriendLeeCPA at msn.com) - - - - From the moderator: for Rowland Hazard, do you have both of these photos? http://www.texasdistrict5.com/history-in-photos.htm http://hindsfoot.org/archive3.html IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5495. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/25/2009 9:56:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The notion that Bill W wrote the Traditions based on reading a book about the Washingtonians is absurd. The Washingtonians did not help 500,000 alcoholics - the vast majority of their membership make-up rapidly evolved to be non-alcoholic temperance advocates and adolescents. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lash Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 6:03 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 The Spiritual Awakenings Group of Bernardsville, New Jersey presents two great presentations on AA history & pre-AA history: "The History of the AA book 'Twelve Steps & Twelve Traditions' and what AA was like in the N.Y.C. Area from 1949 to 1959" with Matt D. from East Ridge NY AND "A Re-Enactment of a Washingtonian Temperance Meeting" with April K. from Lebanon Township NJ on Saturday, February 7th, 2009 from 1:00PM - 5:00PM at the Fairmont Presbyterian Church Community House 247 County Route 517 (across from the Fairmont Cemetery) Califon, New Jersey 07830 Matt D. is the son-in-law of Tom P. Tom helped AA co-founder Bill W. write and edit AA's "Twelve Steps & Twelve Traditions"(1952), the stories in the second edition of the Big Book (1955), and "Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age" (1957), and was a major participant at the AA World Service Office in N.Y.C. from 1949 to 1959. Tom was also sponsored at different times by AA's co-founders Dr. Bob and Bill W. Matt has spoken at length with Tom and has studied all of Tom's writings and talks about that period of time in AA history. The Washingtonians were a temperance society in the mid-1800s that, in the first five years of their existence, helped approximately 500,000 alcoholics. Five years later they self-destructed, never to be heard from again. Bill W. read a book about them and saw that AA was having the same problems that caused the demise of the Washingtonians so he developed the Twelve Traditions to assure AA's future. IMPORTANT - WE WILL BE PASSING A SELF- SUPPORTING COLLECTION BASKET TO COVER EXPENSES AND NO COFFEE WILL BE SERVED. For more info please call Barefoot Bill at 201-232-8749 (cell). For a copy of the flyer, please go to http://www.justloveaudio.com and then click on "events" and then scroll down to this event. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5496. . . . . . . . . . . . Early Indianapolis Group pamphlet From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/26/2009 3:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: "Bruce C." (brucecl2002 at yahoo.com) In "To Be Continued ...", by Charlie Bishop Jr. and Bill Pittman, they list as item # 630: "Alcoholics Anonymous." Indianapolis, IN: Indianapolis Group of AA, January 1949. Note: 3.25" x 6.25". This small 6-page foldout pamphlet contains basic information about AA and the Twelve Steps. Have any of you seen or do you know about the contents of this pamphlet? I have checked with some Southern Indiana Area 23 historians, and am told that they do not know or have a copy of this. The Indianapolis Intergroup Office prints a "Who Me" pamphlet, that has the Johns Hopkins University 40 questions. I recall an article from the Cleveland Central Bulletin: Central Bulletin, June 1944, page 4. INDIANAPOLIS GROUP An interesting little folder comes to our attention from Indianapolis which undoubtedly is sent or given to interested prospects and it tells distinctly the first steps in affiliation with AA as well as all necessary factual information. In it they report 27 members who have been total abstainers for a period of 1 to 6 years with the number increasing each month. The group numbers 85 men and 8 women. Do any of you know how one may get a copy of these pamphlets? Yours in Service and Recovery Bruce C. Muncie, Indiana (brucecl2002 at yahoo.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5497. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill Discusses the 12 Traditions: who are the other people? From: Michael F. Margetis . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/27/2009 3:01:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In the video "Bill Discusses the Twelve Traditions" there's I think eight people sitting at the table with him. This may be too much to ask, but does anyone have a clue who some of these folks are? Thanks, Michael F. Margetis Brunswick, Maryland IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5498. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Silkworth''s signature From: Fred . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/27/2009 1:47:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The "Doctors Opinion" in the 16th printing of the First Edition contains a blank space on pg. 2: Very truly yours, (Signed) ----- M.D. In the same part of the 1st printing of the Second Edition the letter has: Very truly yours, William D. Silkworth, M.D. Are there any historical events, other then Dr. W. D. Silkworth's death (1873-1951) that prompted the use of his signature in that edition and those which followed? Thanx For everything you do, Fred from Ohio IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5499. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Discusses the 12 Traditions: who are the other people? From: DON HISHON . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/28/2009 8:12:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII That video was recorded at the GSO offices, and the folks there were staff personal-----Donny. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5500. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 From: Les Spam . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/30/2009 10:35:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In the 12&12 Bill wrote at the end of Tradition 10: "The lesson to be learned from the Washing- tonians was not overlooked by Alcoholics Anonymous. As we surveyed the wreck of that movement, early A.A. members resolved to keep our Society out of public controversy. Thus was laid the cornerstone for Tradition Ten." It seems clear that Bill's knowledge of the history of the Washingtonians did play a role in motivating the development of the traditions. Eric - - - - Arthur S wrote: The notion that Bill W wrote the Traditions based on reading a book about the Washingtonians is absurd. - - - - Original Message from Bill Lash (barefootbill at optonline.net) The Washingtonians were a temperance society in the mid-1800s that, in the first five years of their existence, helped approximately 500,000 alcoholics. Five years later they self-destructed, never to be heard from again. Bill W. read a book about them and saw that AA was having the same problems that caused the demise of the Washingtonians so he developed the Twelve Traditions to assure AA's future. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5501. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/28/2009 10:40:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Good morning everybody. First of all, the flyer DOESN'T say that Bill wrote the Traditions because he read a book on the Washingtonians. We all know that Bill W. was aware of common problems being experienced throughout AA & around that same time he read a book about the Washingtonians & saw where AA might end up. Also around that time the 12 Traditions began to be formulated. I put the below flyer together quickly but the point that I was trying to make is that the Washing- tonians played a part in Bill W.'s writing of the 12 Traditions. Also, if the phrase "thousands of alcoholics" works better for you instead of "500,000 alcoholics" simply replace the phrase in your head when you read it. The Washingtonians went away 150 years ago & I don't think ANYONE knows what the exact numbers were. The January 1991 AA Grapevine mentions their membership was "estimated at anywhere from one to six million, of whom perhaps 100,000 to 600,000 were sober drunks." I guesstimated a number & you can too. But whatever - please don't let this distract away from the fact that there's a cool AA history event going on in New Jersey on February 7th & all are welcome. Just Love, Barefoot Bill - - - - From: Cindy Miller (cm53 at earthlink.net) Arthur -- I never got that feeling from the announcement. They just look like 2 mighty interesting presentations -- not cause & effect. Perhaps the Washingtonians were a small influence, but NOT the total reason. - - - - From: "James" (jdf10487 at yahoo.com) It is my understanding that Bill wrote the traditions based on (one) his own experience moderating conlicts in AA, (two) mistakes he witnessed the Oxford Group make (like placing personalities over principles), (three) the Washingtonians who failed to stick to their primary purpose, and got involved in politics which resulted in contraversy and divisions which tore them apart. According to some accounts Bill believed that if the Washing- tonians had stuck to being a program for recovery from alcoholism they might have survived. Lastly Bill's thinking was influenced by reading a book called 'This Believing World" -- this book chronicled the rise and fall of various spiritual groups and speculated about what caused them to fail. Sincerely, Jim F. - - - - Original message #5493 from Bill Lash (barefootbill at optonline.net) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5493 “A Re-Enactment of a Washingtonian Temperance Meeting” with April K. from Lebanon Township, New Jersey on Saturday, February 7th, 2009 from 1:00PM – 5:00PM The Washingtonians were a temperance society in the mid-1800s that, in the first five years of their existence, helped approximately 500,000 alcoholics. Five years later they self-destructed, never to be heard from again. Bill W. read a book about them and saw that AA was having the same problems that caused the demise of the Washingtonians so he developed the Twelve Traditions to assure AA’s future. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5502. . . . . . . . . . . . When and where is 2009 National Archives Workshop? From: mrsaa97 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/1/2009 3:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Is there any information about the 2009 National Archives Workshop yet? When will it be? Where will it be held? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5503. . . . . . . . . . . . National Archives Workshop 24-27 Sep 2009 Woodland Hills CA From: charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/2/2009 7:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The 13th National Archives Workshop will be Sept 24 thru 27th, 2008, in Woodland Hills, California. See their flyer at: http://www.aanationalarchivesworkshop.com/ ______________________________ From: "Lee Carroll" (FriendLeeCPA at msn.com) September 24th - 27th 2009 Warner Center Marriott Hotel 21850 Oxnard Blvd Woodland Hills, California 91367 phone: 818 887 4800 Room rate = $110/night plus tax (mention NAAAW), cutoff date Sept 7th Special Guest: National Archives Workshop Archivist Gail L. Preservation/Conservation Presenters: David C. (Washington), Perry D. (Arkansas), Terry L. (Arkansas) using a hands on format Chair - George R 818 378-4186 NAAAW09@aol.com Co-chair - Mike S 805 338 5140 aaarchivesmike@sbcglobal.net ______________________________ Lee Carroll, CPA (805) 938-1981 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5504. . . . . . . . . . . . He Who Loses His Life From: CloydG . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/3/2009 6:35:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Does anyone know what story this passage came from and who the author was? Clyde G. - - - - For me, AA is a synthesis of all the philo- sophy I've ever read, all of the positive, good philosophy, all of it based on love. I have seen that there is only one law, the law of love, and there are only two sins: the first is to interfere with the growth of another human being, and the second is to interfere with one's own growth. Alcoholics Anonymous 2nd edition, p. 551. - - - - From the moderator GFC: The story is "He Who Loses His Life." The author is "Bob" (initials E.B.R.), and it appears on p. 540 in the 2nd edition of the Big Book and p. 531 in the 3rd edition. He updated his story in the September 1967 AA Grapevine. See Nancy Olson's little bio (and the text of the Grapevine story) at http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5505. . . . . . . . . . . . Edgar Cole, Sobriety From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/4/2009 11:55:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Edgar Cole, Sobriety (Philadelphia, Meroduk Pub. Co., 1925). Need info about this book and author. Does anybody have any idea who Edgar Cole was? This book was connected with the temperance movement and the prohibition movement. LDP\ www.aabibliography.com IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5506. . . . . . . . . . . . The date of Dr. Bob''s last major talk From: mdingle76 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/4/2009 5:00:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII AA History Lovers, Does anyone know the actual date of Dr. Bob's last major talk? I know it was given in Detroit, Michigan in December 1948 — but what day? Matt D. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5507. . . . . . . . . . . . Writer of Ace Full-Seven-Eleven story From: davearlan . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/8/2009 11:09:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Does anyone have any info on Del Tryon who is? I have heard that he was the author of "Ace Full-Seven-Eleven," the only story from the original manuscript to be eliminated from the first edition of the Big Book. I am doing research on all the BB story writers. Thanks, Dave B IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5508. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/2/2009 4:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII According to a talk given by Jimmy Burwell in 1957, Bill's writing of the traditions was mostly influenced by reading a book called "This Believing World" by Lewis Brown but he was also aware of the history of the Washing- tonian Group and had some ideas on where they went wrong. The talk that I am referring to is available online for you to listen to. I will try to enclose the link so you can review it. Here it is: http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1663 Kindest Regards, Jim F. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5509. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 From: khemex@comcast.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/3/2009 11:44:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Milton Maxwell, an early member of the Board of Directors of AA (The Alcoholic Foundation) was an expert on the Washingtonians and eventually wrote a masterful manuscript on their history. He was the one who asked Bill Wilson if he'd ever heard of them, and Bill hadn't. That was about the time that Bill was thinking about putting down the yet un-named principles which later became the Traditions. A number of years ago I was sent a manuscript of Milton's paper on the Washingtonians, which I retyped into a format that could be uploaded to the then fledgling internet. I think the document was about 75 pages or more. Not knowing any better myself I sent it into the cosmos and promptly crashed a server for hours. Never did that again!! I probably have a copy of that document somewhere either in hard copy or on a very old floppy disk, the really big ones. I'll try to find it, if no one else has a copy around. In Love and Service to Others, Gerry Winkelman IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5510. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/9/2009 8:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII This is an unbelievably minor correction but if anyone is looking up THIS BELIEVING WORLD it might be worth knowing that the author is Lewis Browne, with an e on the end. > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > From: jdf10487@yahoo.com > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:03:49 -0800 > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 > > According to a talk given by Jimmy Burwell > in 1957, Bill's writing of the traditions was > mostly influenced by reading a book called > "This Believing World" by Lewis Brown but he > was also aware of the history of the Washing- > tonian Group and had some ideas on where they > went wrong. The talk that I am referring to > is available online for you to listen to. I > will try to enclose the link so you can review > it. Here it is: > > http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1663 > > Kindest Regards, Jim F. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5511. . . . . . . . . . . . Milton Maxwell on the Washingtonians From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/8/2009 10:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In 1992 Charlie Bishop (The Bishop of Books) published a book entitled "The Washingtonians and Alcoholics Anonymous." That book included a reprint of the Maxwell article. I don't know if Charlie has this in electronic format but I'm sure it is available somewhere. I also used to have a reprint of just the article which I got from Nell Wing at GSO. (it was, according to Charlie, a 42 page article.) - - - - Message #5509 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5509 From: (khemex at comcast.net) Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 Milton Maxwell, an early member of the Board of Directors of AA (The Alcoholic Foundation) was an expert on the Washingtonians and eventually wrote a masterful manuscript on their history. He was the one who asked Bill Wilson if he'd ever heard of them, and Bill hadn't. That was about the time that Bill was thinking about putting down the yet un-named principles which later became the Traditions. A number of years ago I was sent a manuscript of Milton's paper on the Washingtonians, which I retyped into a format that could be uploaded to the then fledgling internet. I think the document was about 75 pages or more. Not knowing any better myself I sent it into the cosmos and promptly crashed a server for hours. Never did that again!! I probably have a copy of that document somewhere either in hard copy or on a very old floppy disk, the really big ones. I'll try to find it, if no one else has a copy around. In Love and Service to Others, Gerry Winkelman IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5512. . . . . . . . . . . . Milton Maxwell and AA From: James Blair . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/9/2009 12:36:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Facts on Maxwell from Markings (archives news letter.) .org/lang/en/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_fall08.pdf Maxwell's paper on the Washingtonian Movement was published in the Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol, Volume 11, P 410-452, 1950. The paper was intended to familiarize readers with the history of the Washingtonian Movement and to compare similarities and differences between AA and the Washingtonians. The AA GV carried many articles on the Washingtonians. The first was a piece submitted by C.H.K. of Lansing, MI, titled "History Offers Good Lessons For AA." and was published in the July 1945 issue. Bill W. followed article up with an article in the August 1945 issue titled "Modesty One Plank For Good Public Relations" and then an article in the September 1945 issue titled "'Rules' Dangerous, But Unity on Public Policy Vital to Future." In both of these articles Bill focused on the failing of the Washingtonians which resulted in public controversy. Between 1945 and to date the GV has published over 15 articles on the Wahingtonians. Jim B. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5513. . . . . . . . . . . . Clarence Snyder''s Anniversary From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/11/2009 4:23:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Mitchell K, Clarence Snyder's sponsee wrote me today and mentioned that today, February 11, would be Clarence's 71st anniversary. Happy Birthday Clarence! (As a side note, when Jimmy Burwell wrote Clarence on leap year day of 1940, that the Philadelphia Group had their first meeting, he misspelled Snyder as Snider.) YIS, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, Pa. USA IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5514. . . . . . . . . . . . Barefoot Bob died on 31 January 2009 From: Patricia . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/11/2009 2:44:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII http://alcoholism.about.com/b/2009/02/09/barefoot-bob-dead-at-age-75.htm?nl= 1 "Barefoot Bob" who created and maintained a personal website popular with members of Alcoholics Anonymous and other recovery groups, died January 31, 2009 in hospice care in Idaho after a lengthy illness. He was 75. Bob had been sober for more than 34 years. His sobriety date was Feb. 28, 1974. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5515. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 0 - The Washingtonians and How the Traditions Originated and Evolved From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In AA Comes of Age pg 96 Bill W wrote: "The Twelve Traditions are to group survival and harmony what AA's Twelve Steps are to each member's sobriety and peace of mind." The history of the Traditions of AA is a fascinating one. There is actually more written about the Traditions in AA literature than there is about the Steps. A series of postings will be sent to AAHL in the form of a timeline to cover the history of the Traditions up through 1988. That is when the last major chronicle of Traditions history was published in the book "The Language of the Heart." The postings that follow will be on the topics of: Part 1 - What and when did Bill W likely know about the Washingtonians? Part 2 - The Washingtonians Part 3 - The birth of the Traditions Part 4 - The evolution of the Traditions from long to short form Part 5 - The role of the Traditions in the General Service Structure Part 6 - The links among the Traditions, Conference Charter (Warranties) and Concepts Source references for the postings are: [12&12-Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions] -- [AABB-Alcoholics Anonymous, the "Big Book"] -- [AACOA-AA Comes of Age] -- [AGAA-The Akron Genesis of Alcoholics Anonymous, by Dick B] -- [BW-RT-Bill W by Robert Thomsen] -- [BW-FH-Bill W by Francis Hartigan] -- [BW-40-Bill W My First 40 Years, autobiography] -- [DBGO-Dr Bob and the Good Old-timers] -- [EBBY-Ebby the Man Who Sponsored Bill W by Mel B] -- [GB-Getting Better Inside Alcoholics Anonymous by Nan R] [GTBT-Grateful to Have Been There by Nell Wing] -- [GSC-FR-General Service Conference-Final Report (identified by year)] -- [GSO-General Service Office-service pieces] -- [GSO-AC-General Service Office Archives Collection] -- [Gv-Grapevine-identified by month and year] -- [HIW-How It Worked by Mitchell K] -- [HT-Harry Tiebout-the Collected Writings, Hazelden] -- [LOH-The Language of the Heart] -- [LR-Lois Remembers, by Lois W] [MMM-Mrs Marty Mann, by Sally and David R Brown] -- [NG-Not God, by Ernest Kurtz] -- [NW-New Wine, by Mel B] -- [PIO-Pass It On, AAWS] -- [SI-Sister Ignatia, by Mary C Darrah] -- [SD-Slaying the Dragon, by William L White] -- [SM-AA Service Manual and Twelve Concepts for World Service] -- [www-Internet] Happy reading Arthur S IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5516. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 1 - What and When Did Bill W Likely Know About the Washingtonians From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The August 1945 Grapevine carried Bill W's first Traditions article titled "Modesty One Plank for Good Public Relations" (LOH 3-6). The previous month's Grapevine had an article by CHK of Lansing, MI about the Washingtonians. Bill used the CHK article as a reference to begin his Traditions essay commentaries. The July 1945 Grapevine article by CHK contains a number of factual errors about the Washingtonians that eventually carried into Bill's Grapevine essays and subsequently into the 12&12 and AACOA. So far I can find no other source that Bill W was exposed to on the Washingtonians prior to 1945 (that does not mean there weren't any). The September 1945 Grapevine carried Bill's second Traditions article titled "Rules Dangerous, but Unity on Public Policies Vital to Future of AA." He mentions the Washingtonians again but his commentary is misinformed i.e. "they mushroomed to a hundred thousand members, then collapsed."(LOH 6-9 - its title has been shortened). In an October 1945 Grapevine article titled "The Book is Born" Bill mentions the Washingtonians again, in what I believe is an incorrect context as to the major issues of division in the Washingtonians (LOH 9-12) - more on this later. The December 1946 Grapevine reported on the NY Intergroup's 11th annual dinner that "Bill W, one of the two co-founders of Alcoholics Anonymous, delivered the principal AA address at the dinner. He reviewed AA's tremendous growth in the past few years and predicted its future. "If we remember that our first duty is face-to-face help for the alcoholic who still suffers from his illness, we need not worry about our future," he said. Drawing a contrast between AA of today and a similar organization, The Washingtonians, of 100 years ago, he pointed out how important it is to adhere to simple principles if AA is to survive. He compared the principles of the Franciscan order of 700 years ago to the principles of AA today, and concluded with a restatement of the Twelve Points of Tradition that have evolved through experience in AA. In 1950 past General Service Board Chairman Milton A Maxwell, published an extended paper on the Washingtonians while he was Assistant Professor of Sociology at the State College of Washington at Pullman. This paper was the primary source reference for October 1962, February 1971 and January 1991 Grapevine articles. There are other Grapevine articles about the Washingtonians and it should be noted that these articles do not necessarily go through a vetting and editing process to validate and corroborate their content. An excellent source of information about the Washingtonians is William White's "Slaying the Dragon" (the whole book is a gem). The October 1962 Grapevine article about the Washingtonians illustrates some of the difficulties and precautions of using the magazine as a reference source. Editorial license is interspersed among source references. The October 1962 Grapevine article states: "What happened to them? By an AA 'coincidence' there arrived at the Grapevine the same week an excerpt from a scholarly treatment of 'The Washingtonian Movement' written by Milton A. Maxwell, PhD and published in the Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol. The Washingtonians, Dr. Maxwell points out, had certain notable features later incorporated into AA: ( 1 ) Alcoholics helping each other (2) Weekly meetings (3) Shared experience (4) Fellowship of a group or its members constantly available (5) A reliance upon the Higher Power (6) Total abstinence from alcohol. Unfortunately, the movement eventually was torn apart in the political and doctrinal warfare associated with the temperance and abolition movements." The last sentence beginning with "Unfortunately" is the editorial license of the article's author. It gives the impression that it is a conclusion derived from the Maxwell paper. In fact, Maxwell's paper makes no mention at all of abolition or slavery. The paper also lists the guidelines published by the Washingtonians on how to organize and conduct Washingtonian meetings. Article 3 of these provisions was to "Forbid the introduction of sectarian sentiments or party politics into any lecture, speeches, singing, or doings of the society." The matter of prohibition evolved into a definite divisive issue among the Washingtonians. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5517. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 2 - The Washingtonians From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In the early 1800s, the relatively new republic of the United States was truly on a destructive alcohol binge and the effects were devastating. Prominent historical figures, such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams, urgently called for a change in drinking practices. They appealed to the country for “temperance” which at that time meant “moderation” in drinking. (SD 4-5) By the 1820s, people in the US were drinking on average 27 liters (7 gallons) of pure alcohol per person each year. Many religious and political leaders were beginning to see drunkenness as a national curse. Momentum was picked up by religious leaders to change the notion of “temperance as moderation” to mean “temperance as abstinence.” This began the growth of American temperance societies that would later lead to the alcohol prohibition movement. (SD 4-5) 1840 April 5 - a group of six drinking club friends (William Mitchell, John Hoss, David Anderson, George Steers, James McCurley and Archibald Campbell) from Chase’s Tavern in Baltimore, MD formed a total abstinence society. Pledging to “not drink any spirituous or malt liquors, wine or cider” they named themselves the Washington Temperance Society (in honor of George Washington). They later became known as Washingtonians. They required a pledge of total abstinence and attendance at weekly meetings where members would tell their stories of drunkenness and recovery. As a body, they recognized no religion or creed and were politically neutral. Each member was supposed to help alcoholics who were still drinking. They sought out new prospects (“hard cases”). Their weekly meetings were held at Chase’s tavern until the owner’s wife objected to the increasing loss of their best customers. They had a 25-cent initiation fee ($5.50 today) and member’s dues of 12 ½ cents per month ($2.75 today). (SD 8-9, www Milton Maxwell paper) 1840 November 19 - the Washingtonians held their first public meeting. Growth of the movement was extremely rapid. Widespread and enthusiastic support came from numerous temperance societies. The Washingtonians had great success in mobilizing public attention on temperance by relaying their “experience sharing” of alcoholic debauchery followed by glorious accounts of personal reformation. A leader of the movement noted, “There is a prevalent impression, that none but reformed drunkards are admitted as members of the Washingtonian Society. This is a mistake. Any man may become a member by signing the pledge and continue so by adhering to it.” (SD 9, www Milton Maxwell paper) 1841 May 12 - the Washingtonians organized the first Martha Washington Society meeting for women and children in NY. They provided moral and material support to reform female inebriates and assisted the wives and children of male inebriates. This was the first temperance movement in which women assumed leadership roles. The movement also spawned juvenile auxiliary groups. Freed blacks organized separate Washingtonian societies. (SD 10) 1843 Mid-to-end - the Washingtonian movement peaked after having reached all major areas of the US. Estimates of its membership vary and are contradictory. The sole requirement for membership was to sign a “total abstinence pledge.” Members included teetotalers, temperance advocates, and a large segment of adolescents (under age 15) and drinkers of various types whose numbers far exceeded that of the “drunkards.” A reliable estimate of the number of alcoholics in the mix is impossible to derive. Over the lifetime of the movement, hundreds of thousands signed pledges but the number of rehabilitated alcoholics was likely under 150,000. (1996 GSC-FR 15, SD-10, www Milton Maxwell paper) 1847 - Estimate of when the Washingtonians “spent its force.” The society originally favored “moral suasion” to achieve reformation of the alcoholic through abstinence. However, the Washingtonian membership makeup changed rapidly and radically to consist mainly of non-alcoholic temperance advocates. Sentiments shifted away from reformation of alcoholics to the pursuit of a legal means to prohibit alcohol. Washingtonian practices came to be viewed as outmoded and interest waned. There was no sudden collapse. When the novelty and emotional appeal of the Washingtonians became outmoded, they simply faded from the scene. “AA Comes of Age” (pg 125) cites issues such as religion, politics and abolition of slavery as root causes of the Washingtonian decline. While there were certainly cases of this, there is no compelling evidence to support or conclude that these issues had a major role in the Washingtonians downfall. Prohibition was certainly a very divisive issue among the Washingtonians as were power struggles among its leadership. However, the major and pervasive causes of the Washingtonians downfall appear to be a direct result of their departing from their original membership makeup (which started out as all alcoholics) and their departing from their original primary and single purpose (which began as one alcoholic helping another alcoholic who was still suffering). It is a powerful lesson on the vital importance of AA’s Traditions to the ongoing survival of the AA Fellowship. (SD 8-14, 12&12 178-179, AACOA 124-125, PIO 366-367. www Milton Maxwell paper) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5518. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 3 - The Birth of the Traditions From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 1935 June - Almost a century after the Washingtonians, the AA Fellowship started in Akron, OH. It was a result of an action that later formed the heart of Step 12 and Tradition 5 as AA's primary purpose of carrying a message of recovery from one alcoholic to another still-suffering alcoholic. AA's co-founders, Bill W and Dr Bob, first met on Mothers Day May 12, 1935. A few weeks later, Dr Bob went on his last binge. Bill helped him through 3 days of sobering up to get ready for a scheduled surgery. Dr Bob had his last drink on the day of the surgery, which is celebrated as June 10, 1935. Bill W's sobriety date is December 11, 1934. AA marks its beginning as the day that Dr Bob, the second alcoholic, had his last drink. (AACOA, DBGO, PIO) 1935 July 4 - Carrying a message to a still-suffering alcoholic also led to the founding of AA's first group. Bill W and Dr Bob visited Bill D at Akron City Hospital in late June. Bill D had already been hospitalized 8 times in 1935 for his drinking and It took 5 days before he admitted he could not control his drinking. The 4th of July is an important date in our nation's history (it is Independence Day). The 4th of July is also an important date in AA history. AA's first group, Akron #1, marks its beginning as July 4, 1935 when Bill D, AA #3, was discharged from Akron City Hospital and joined with Bill W and Dr Bob to help other alcoholics. During the first 4 years of the AA Fellowship, there were two groups: Akron #1 and New York City. (AACOA 71-73, AABB 184, BW-RT 219-220, DBGO 81-89, NG 37, 319, PIO 152-154, GB 42, AGAA 202-203). In their earliest years, the AA groups in Akron and NY were directly affiliated with the Oxford Group. It certainly was helpful at the beginning but over time, it produced problems. During 1936, Bill W's efforts in working only with alcoholics were criticized by NY OG members. Similarly, in Akron, T Henry and Clarace Williams were criticized by OG members who were not supportive of their efforts being extended primarily to alcoholics. (NG 44-45, NW 73, AGAA 76) 1936 December - AACOA 102 notes that one of the earliest personal experiences that influenced the Traditions occurred when Bill W was two years sober. Charles B Towns offered Bill a lucrative job at his hospital as a lay alcoholism therapist. After years of a hand to mouth existence Bill wanted the job very much. The question was put to the NY group meeting in Bill's home and they rejected it. Bill complied and cooperated with their decision and later wrote in AACOA 101-102: "Three blows, well and truly struck, had fallen on the anvil of experience . The common welfare must come first . AA cannot have a class of professional therapists . and God, speaking in the group conscience, is to be our final authority." Bill went on to write "Clearly implied in these three embryo principles of tradition was a fourth: Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern." (AACOA 100-102, LR 197, BW-RT 232-234, NG 63-64, PIO 175-177) On the AA calendar of "year two" (1937) the spirit of Tradition 3 emerged. A member asked to be admitted who frankly described himself to the "oldest" member as "the victim of another addiction even worse stigmatized than alcoholism." The "addiction" was "sex deviate" (revealed by Bill W in an audiotaped talk to the 1968 GSC). Guidance came from Dr Bob (the oldest member in Akron, OH) asking, "What would the Master do?" The member was admitted and plunged into 12th Step work. (DBGO 240-241 12&12 141-142) Note: this story is often erroneously intermingled with an incident that occurred eight years later in 1945 at the 41st St clubhouse in NYC. (PIO 318, 12&12 141-142). 1937 Late spring - some leaders of the OG at the Calvary Mission ordered alcoholics staying there not to attend meetings at Clinton St. Bill W and Lois were criticized by OG members for having "drunks only" meetings at their home. They were described as "not maximum" (an OG term for those believed to be lagging in their devotion to OG principles). (EBBY 75, LR 103, BW-RT 231, NG 45, NW 89-91) 1937 August - Bill and Lois stopped attending Oxford Group meetings and the NY AAs separated from the OG. This was the beginning of AA separating itself from outside affiliation and it set the groundwork for what would later become Tradition 6. The Akron group remained affiliated with the OG for two more years. (LR 197, AACOA vii, 74-76) 1937 October - Bill W and Dr Bob met again in Akron, OH. There were two groups then and about 40 sober members (more than half were sober for over a year). It was a remarkable success story since every one of the sober members had previously been considered hopeless and beyond any help at all. Bill had some rather grandiose ideas for AA hospitals, paid missionaries and a book of experience to carry the message to distant places. Dr Bob liked the book idea but not the hospitals and paid missionaries. In a meeting at T Henry Williams home, Bill's ideas narrowly passed. A single vote made the difference among the meeting of 18 Akron members. The NY group was more enthusiastic. This historic milestone marked the decision to write the Big Book. (AACOA vii, 76-77, 144-146, BW-RT 239-243, DBGO 123-124, NG 56-57, PIO 180, LOH 142) 1937 Late - The book project's first challenge was financing and it was no simple matter. The country was still in the grips of the great economic depression and the prospects of World War II were looming dangerously large in Europe and Asia. Initial efforts to raise funds were not successful. Bill W's brother-in-law, Dr Leonard V Strong, set up a meeting in December 1937 with Willard S Richardson (who was an ordained minister and manager of John D Rockefeller's philanthropies). A second meeting took place in January 1938. (AACOA 147-149, BW-RT 245-246, NG 65-66, PIO 181-185) 1948 February - Willard Richardson asked Frank Amos to visit Akron and make a report on the Fellowship. Amos wrote a very favorable and glowing report that Richardson sent to John D Rockefeller Jr urging a donation of $5,000 a year for 1 or possibly 2 years (the equivalent of $74,000 a year in today's dollars). (BW-FH 105-106 says $10,000, $5,000 a year for 2 years, in LOH 61 Bill W says $30,000 - both figures are wrong). (SM S3, BW-RT 246, LR 197, DBGO 128-135, BW-FH 105-106, PIO 185-187, LOH 143, AGAA 217, 258) 1938 March - Rockefeller replied to Richardson that it was contrary to the policy of his philanthropies to fully fund a charitable enterprise unless it was decided to carry it indefinitely. Rockefeller declined to make a donation for the second year but did provide $5,000 to be held in a fund in the Riverside Church treasury. Much of the fund was used to immediately assist Dr Bob by paying off the mortgage to his home. The remainder was used to provide Bill and Dr Bob, who were both in very difficult financial straits, with $120 a month ($1,800 a month today) so that they could continue to dedicate themselves full time to the Fellowship. (BW-RT 247, AACOA 149-151, DBGO 135, PIO 187-188, GSO-AC) 1938 August 5 - the Alcoholic Foundation was established as a charitable trust with a board of five Trustees (in LOH 61 Bill W said it started with seven Trustees). The trust indenture document specified that non-alcoholic trustees were to make up a majority of the board. The terms "Class A" and "Class B" trustees were used to make a distinction between non-alcoholic and alcoholic board members. Its first meeting took place on August 11. (GSO, BW-RT 248, AACOA 151-152, LR 197, NG 66, 307, 330). 1939 April - the first edition of "Alcoholics Anonymous" was published at a selling price of $3.50 ($52 today). the Foreword to the first edition Big Book has many of the key principles that later shaped the Traditions. To quote from the foreword: "... It is important that we remain anonymous. We would like it understood that our alcoholic work is an avocation. When writing or speaking publicly about alcoholism, we urge each of our Fellowship to omit his personal name, designating himself instead as 'a member of Alcoholics Anonymous' ... Very earnestly we ask the press also, to observe this request, for otherwise we shall be greatly handicapped ... We are not an organization in the conventional sense of the word. There are no fees or dues whatsoever. The only requirement for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking. We are not allied with any particular faith, sect or denomination, nor do we oppose anyone. We simply wish to be helpful to those who are afflicted ..." (AABB xiii-xiv 4th edition) this text also later formed the basis for the AA Preamble In the late 1930s and early 1940s, public relations had the most dramatic impact on AA membership growth. Liberty Magazine, headed by Fulton Oursler, carried a piece titled Alcoholics and God by Morris Markey (who was influenced to write the article by Charles Towns). It generated about 800 inquiries from around the nation. Oursler (author of "The Greatest Story Ever Told") became good friends with Bill W and later served as a Trustee and member of the Grapevine editorial board. (AACOA 176-178, LOH 145, 180-183 BW-FH 127-129, PIO 223-224) Membership grew suddenly in Cleveland due to the September Liberty Magazine article and a series of editorials in the Cleveland Plain Dealer by Elrick B Davis. As a result, the Cleveland group was flooded with appeals for help. Newcomers with just a few days of sobriety were assigned to make 12th Step calls. Cleveland membership surged from 20 to several hundred. (AACOA viii, 177-178, BW-RT 261, LR 197, LOH 145-146, SI 164, PIO 224, AGAA 4-5) 1939 October - (AACOA viii says summer) Akron members of the "alcoholic squad" withdrew from the Oxford Group and held meetings at Dr Bob's house. The founding of the Cleveland Group and this action by the Akron Group ended all outside affiliation between the AA Fellowship and the OG or anyone else. (NW 93-94, SI 35, DBGO 212-219, NG 81, GTBT 123, AGAA 8-10, 188, 243) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5519. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 3 - The Birth of the Traditions (continued) From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 1940 February 8 - John D Rockefeller Jr. held a dinner for AA at the Union League Club. 75 of 400 invited guests attended. Nelson Rockefeller hosted in the absence of his ill father. The dinner produced much favorable publicity for AA. It also raised $2,200 ($32,000 today) from the attendees ($1,000 from Rockefeller). Rockefeller and the dinner guests continued to provide "outside contributions" of about $3,000 a year ($43,500 today) up to 1945 when they were asked to stop contributing. The Alcoholic Foundation received the donations and income from sales of the Big Book for safekeeping. (LR 197, BW-RT 264-267, AACOA viii, 182-187, NG 92-94, BW-FH 109-112, PIO 232-235). 1940 April 16 - Cleveland Indians baseball star "Rollicking" Rollie H had his anonymity broken in the Cleveland Plain Dealer and nationally. Bill W did likewise in later personal appearances in 1942 and 1943. (AACOA 135, BW-RT 268-270, DBGO 249-253, NG 85-87, 96-96, AACOA 24-25, BW-FH 134-135, PIO 236-238, GTBT 156) 1940 May 22 - Works Publishing Co was legally incorporated as a publishing arm of the Alcoholic Foundation. The major stockholders, Bill W and Hank P, gave up their stock with a written stipulation that Dr Bob and Anne would receive 10% royalties on the Big Book for life. (AACOA 189-190, LR 199, BW-FH 119, SM 11, PIO 235-236, GTBT 92, GSO-AC) 1940 October - Bill W went to Philadelphia to speak to Curtis Bok, one of the owners of the Saturday Evening Post (the largest general circulation magazine in the US with a readership of 3,000,000). Later, in December, Jack Alexander was assigned to do a story on AA. (LR 131, BW-RT 278-279, BW-FH 140-141, PIO 244-245, GB 82) 1941 March 1 - Jack Alexander's Saturday Evening Post article was published and became AA's most notable public relations blessing. The publicity caused 1941 membership to jump from around 2,000 to 8,000. Bill W's and two other members' pictures appeared full-face in the article. (AACOA viii, 35-36, 190-191, BW-RT 281, LOH 149-150, BW-FH 146, PIO 245-247) The article, led to over 6,000 appeals for help to be mailed to the NY Office. (SM S7, PIO 249) Consequently, the NY office asked groups to donate $1 ($14 today) per member, per year, for support. This began the practice of financing what is today called the General Service Office from group and member donations. (AACOA 112, 192, LOH 149, SM S7) From all these public relations blessings emerged the proven principle in the long form of Tradition 11 that states, "There is never need to praise ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us." 1941 - Clarence S founder of AA in Cleveland joined with Cleveland pioneer Abby G to start AA's first Central Office. Bill W also credits Abby G and the Cleveland Central Office with introducing the principle of rotation to AA. 1941 December 8 - the US entered World War II. With the possibility of being recalled to active duty in the Army, Bill W requested that he be granted a royalty on book sales to provide financial support for his wife Lois. The board approved a 10% royalty. Prior to this, Dr Bob was voluntarily giving Bill half the 10% royalty that he and Anne were (irregularly) receiving. (1951 GSC-FR 13) 1942 - Board Trustee A LeRoy Chipman asked John D Rockefeller Jr. and his 1940 dinner guests for $8,500 ($102,500 today) to buy back the remaining outstanding shares of Works Publishing Inc. stock. Rockefeller lent $4,000, his son Nelson $500 and the other dinner guests $4,000. By acquiring all the outstanding shares it ensured that complete ownership of the Big Book would be held in trust for the entire AA Fellowship. Rockefeller's custom was to forgive $1 of debt ($12 today) for each $1 repaid. The Rockefeller and dinner guest loans were repaid by 1945 out of Big Book income. (AACOA 189, BW-FH 110-111, SM S7, LOH 148, AACOA says $8,000) 1942 October - Clarence S stirred up a controversy in Cleveland after discovering that Dr Bob and Bill W were receiving royalties from Big Book sales. (DBGO 267-269, BW-FH 153-154, AACOA 193-194) Bill and Dr Bob re-examined the problem of their financial status and concluded that royalties from the Big Book seemed to be the only answer to the problem. Bill sought counsel from his spiritual sponsor, Father Edward Dowling, who suggested that Bill and Bob could not accept money for 12th Step work, but should accept royalties as compensation for special services. This later formed the basis for Tradition 8 and Concept 11. Due to the amount of time both co-founders dedicated to the Fellowship, it was impossible for either of them to earn a living through their normal professions. (AACOA 194-195, PIO 322-324) 1940s Early - the NY office was variously called the Headquarters or Central Office or General Office. It had the vital job of responding to letters from groups and members. It also provided a central communications link to members attempting to start groups and helping them with growing pains. The letters from groups and members gave firm signals of a need for guidelines to help with problems that occurred repeatedly. Basic ideas for the 12 Traditions came from these letters and the principles defined in the Foreword to the first edition Big Book. (AACOA 187, 192-193, 198, 203-204, PIO 305-306, LOH 154) 1944 June - Volume 1, No. 1 of the Grapevine was published (1,200 copies). The Grapevine later played a critical and central role in the development of the Traditions and General Service Conference. It is also recognized in the long form of Tradition 9 as AA's "principal newspaper" given its newspaper format at the time. (AACOA viii, 201-203, 212, LOH 153-154, SM S79, PIO 305) 1945 - The Alcoholic Foundation wrote to John D Rockefeller Jr and the 1940 dinner guests that AA no longer needed their financial help. Big Book royalties could look after Dr Bob and Bill and group contributions could pay the office expenses. If these were insufficient, the reserve accumulated out of literature sales could meet the deficit. In total, Rockefeller and the dinner guest donated $30,700 ($345,000 today) to AA. The donations were viewed as loans and paid back out of Big Book income. This led to the principle of being fully self-supporting declining all further outside contributions and later formed the basis of Tradition 7. (AACOA 203-204) 1945 April - by the mid-1940s the accumulated letters sent to the NY office by groups and members led to reliable conclusions on what practices worked well and what did not. Groups were also asked to send in their membership rules and it provided quite a jolt. If all the rules were applied everywhere, it would be impossible for any alcoholic to join AA. Earl T, founder of AA in Chicago suggested to Bill W that the experiences sent in from group and member correspondence might be codified into a set of principles to offer tested solutions to avoid future problems. Earl recommended to Bill W that he codify the Traditions and write essays on them in the Grapevine. Earl T had a major role in the development of the Traditions (both long and short forms). He later served as a Class B Trustee from 1951-1954 and helped establish the General Service Conference. He is also the member described in the Big Book chapter "The Family Afterward" (AABB 135) as getting drunk again after his wife nagged him about his smoking and drinking coffee.(SM S8, AACOA 22, 203, GTBT 54-55, 77, SM S8, PIO 306, LOH 20-24) Bill W wrote in AACOA 208 that the period from 1945-1950 was one of immense strain and test. The three main issues were money, anonymity and what was to become of AA when its old timers and founders were gone. This 5-year period saw Bill's most intensive and exhaustive work of establishing a service structure and advocating the Traditions. The August 1945 Grapevine carried Bill W's first Traditions article titled "Modesty One Plank for Good Public Relations" setting the groundwork for his 5-year campaign for the Traditions. The preceding July 1945 Grapevine edition had an article by member CHK of Lansing, MI about the Washingtonians. Bill used this article to begin his essay commentaries on the Traditions. The July 1945 article by CHK contained a number of factual errors about the Washingtonians that carried into Bill's Grapevine essays and subsequently into the 12&12 and AACOA. 1946 April - The Grapevine was incorporated in April 1946 as the second publishing arm of the Alcoholic Foundation. The April 1946 Grapevine carried Bill W's essay titled "Twelve Suggested Points for AA Tradition." They later came to be called the "Long Form of the Traditions." Bill W wrote Grapevine essays on the Traditions up to late 1949. The essays are preserved in LOH and were used in writing the 12&12 and AACOA. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5520. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 4 - The Evolution of the Traditions from Long to Short Form From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 1946 - Bill started to feel out the board and the Fellowship on the idea of various geographical Areas coming together as an elected service conference. The board and Dr Bob were not very enthusiastic about the idea. This marked the first suggestion for the General Service Conference. (LOH 338, SM 12 says 1945) 1946 - A dispute arose over a funding solicitation letter from the National Council for Education on Alcoholism (NCEA) by Marty M. Dr Bob and Bill W's names appeared on the letterhead. An Alcoholic Foundation Board statement on fund raising was printed in the October 1946 Grapevine to disavow AA affiliation. (GTBT 29, NG 119, MMM 185) 1947 April 8 - after a difficult year of talks on policy and structure, Bill W wrote a paper titled "Our AA General Service Center-The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow." It outlined a history of the Foundation and recommended a General Service Conference and renaming the Alcoholic Foundation to the General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous. The Trustee's reaction was at first defensive and then outright negative. They saw no need for change. Most members would not associate the seeds of the Twelve Traditions and Twelve Concepts with the years 1946 and 1947 respectively. AA was on the verge of its teenage years and a visionary Bill W was laying the groundwork for the membership's coming of age. (AACOA 210-211, www, GSO-AC) In his August 1947 Grapevine Traditions essay titled "Last Seven Years Have Made AA Self-Supporting" Bill W wrote "Two years ago the trustees set aside, out of AA book funds, a sum which enabled my wife and me to pay off the mortgage on our home and make some needed improvements. The Foundation also granted Dr Bob and me each a royalty of 10% on the book Alcoholics Anonymous, our only income from AA sources. We are both very comfortable and deeply grateful." (LOH 62-66) The December 1947 Grapevine carried a notice that an important new 48-page pamphlet titled "AA Traditions" was sent to each group and that enough copies were available for each member to have one free of charge. It was AA's first piece of literature dedicated totally to the Traditions. A sad and gloomy cloud emerged in 1947; Dr Bob was stricken with cancer. (AACOA 209, BW-RT 303-304) Dr Bob's cancer was diagnosed as terminal in the summer of 1948. Bill W was spurred into greater urgency by the progression of Dr Bob's illness and pressed harder for a General Service Conference. It resulted in hot debates and a serious rift developed between Bill and the Class B trustees over Bill's use of "sledge-hammer tactics." In AACOA 210 Bill admits to writing a sizzling memo that "nearly blew the Foundation apart." (AACOA 210-211, DBGO 320, 348, GSO-AC) 1949 July 14 - in a letter to the Rev Sam Shoemaker Bill W wrote "So far as I am concerned, and Dr Smith too, the Oxford Group seeded AA. It was our spiritual wellspring at the beginning." In AACOA 39 Bill also wrote, "Early AA got its ideas of self-examination, acknowledgment of character defects, restitution for harm done, and working with others straight from the Oxford Groups and directly from Sam Shoemaker, their former leader in America, and from nowhere else." (AGAA 137) 1949 - as plans for the first International Convention were under way, Earl T suggested to Bill W that the Twelve Suggested Points for AA Tradition would benefit from revision and shortening. (AACOA 213 says it occurred in "1947 or thereabouts"). Bill, with Earl's help, set out to develop the short form of the Twelve Traditions, which was published in the November 1949 Grapevine. (AACOA 213, GTBT 55, 77, PIO 334, www) The entire November 1949 Grapevine was dedicated to the Traditions in preparation for the Cleveland Convention in 1950. In 1953, two wording changes were made to the version published in 1949: the term "primary spiritual aim" was changed to "primary purpose" in Tradition Six, and the term "principles above personalities" was changed to "principles before personalities" in Tradition Twelve. The November Grapevine issue also contained an article by Bill W titled "A Suggestion for Thanksgiving." Bill endorsed a suggestion in a letter and article from member TDY titled "You have a stake in the future of AA." The suggestion was to "adopt Thanksgiving Week as a time for meetings and meditation on the Tradition of Alcoholics Anonymous." (LOH 95-96). 1950 July 28-30 - AA's 15th anniversary and first International Convention was held at Cleveland, OH (estimated 3,000 attendees). The Traditions meeting was held in the Cleveland Music Hall. Following talks on the Traditions by 6 old-timer members, Bill W was asked to sum up the Traditions for the attendees. Contrary to popular belief, the short form of the Traditions were not approved at the 1950 Convention, Bill W did not recite either the short or the long form of the Traditions to the attendees. Instead, he paraphrased and summarized a variation of the Traditions that is preserved in LOH 121.This is what Bill W read and was approved: "That, touching all matters affecting AA unity, our common welfare should come first; that AA has no human authority - only God as he may speak in our Group Conscience; that our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern; that any alcoholic may become an AA member if he says so - we exclude no one; that every AA Group may manage its own affairs as it likes, provided surrounding groups are not harmed thereby; that we AAs have but a single aim, the carrying of our message to the alcoholic who still suffers; that in consequence we cannot finance, endorse or otherwise lend the name 'Alcoholics Anonymous' to any other enterprise, however worthy; that AA, as such, ought to remain poor, lest problems of property, management and money divert us from our sole aim; that we ought to be self-supporting, gladly paying our small expenses ourselves; that AA should remain forever non-professional, ordinary 12th Step work never to be paid for; that, as a Fellowship, we should never be organized but may nevertheless create responsible Service Boards or Committees to insure us better propagation and sponsorship and that these agencies may engage fulltime workers for special tasks; that our public relations ought to proceed upon the principle of attraction rather than promotion, it being better to let our friends recommend us; that personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and pictures ought to be strictly maintained as our best protection, against the temptations of power or personal ambition; and finally, that anonymity before the general public is the spiritual key to all our Traditions, ever reminding us we are always to place principles before personalities, that we are actually to practice a genuine humility. This to the end that our great blessings may never spoil us; that we shall forever live in thankful contemplation of Him who presides over us all." Following Bill's summation, the attendees unanimously approved the Traditions by standing vote. Notably missing from what Bill recited to the attendees were the principles in Tradition 10 of AA having no opinion on outside issues and not drawing the AA name into public controversy. Nevertheless, the attendees unanimously approved what Bill W presented. (AACOA 43, PIO 338, LOH 117-124) 1950 July 30 - Dr Bob made a brief appearance for his last talk. (GSO, PIO 339-342) Bill W later visited Dr Bob in Akron, OH for their last visit together. Bill advised Bob that the board would likely give its consent to a multi-year trial period for the General Service Conference. Dr Bob gave Bill his endorsement as well. (AACOA 213-215, DBGO 325, 340, 342-343, PIO 342, 344) On November 16, 1950 Dr Bob (age 70) co-founder of AA, died of cancer at City Hospital in Akron, OH. 1950 - Class A trustees Leonard Harrison and Bernard B Smith resolved a 5-year conflict between Bill W and the Board on having a Conference. Smith, who Bill later called "the architect of the service structure," chaired a trustee's committee that recommended that Conferences be held on a trial basis from 1951-1954 and that in 1955 it would be evaluated and a final decision made. The recommendation was approved at the Board's Fall meeting. (AACOA 209-212, PIO 344) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5523. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 5 - The Role of the Traditions in the General Service Structure From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/12/2009 10:17:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII [Corrected version] The 1951 trial Conference took place from April 20-22, 1951. 37 US and Canadian delegates (half the planned number) convened at the Commodore Hotel in NYC as the first Conference Panel. Bernard B Smith presided. 15 Trustees and various staff members from the NY Office and Grapevine Office joined the Conference as voting members. The Conference unanimously recommended several advisory actions. Among them, that AA literature should have Conference-approval. The 1952 trial Conference was the first Conference with all Delegates attending. Based on a 1951 Conference advisory action recommending that AA literature should have Conference approval, the Board formed a special Trustees committee on literature to recommend literature items that should be retained and future literature items that would be needed. Bill W also reported on the many literature projects he was engaged in. The Conference unanimously approved the Board proposals and Bill's projects (which later resulted in publication of 6 Conference-approved books). While it did not recommend specific advisory actions, by approving existing literature to be retained, the Conference retroactively approved the Big Book and several existing pamphlets, which included the long form of the Traditions. At the 1953 trial Conference, Board Chairman Bernard B Smith reported that the corporate name of "Works Publishing" had been changed to "Alcoholics Anonymous Publishing." The first Conference-approved book to be distributed under the new publishing name was the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions (12&12). It contains the final wording of the short form of the Traditions, as we know them today. (AACOA ix, 219, PIO 354-356) The 1953 Conference also recommended that no policy should be declared or action taken on matters liable to gravely affect AA as a whole unless by consent of at least 3/4 of the members present. A mere majority should not authorize action." (Reaffirmed in 1954) 1954 - Lillian R an actress and nightclub singer became the first of many celebrities to break their anonymity and announce their alcoholism and membership in AA. Her book (later movie) I'll Cry Tomorrow was a sensation. Sadly, Lillian went on to drink again and it generated bad publicity for AA. (GB 77, PIO 308-309) February 2, 1954 - Bill W declined an honorary Doctor of Laws degree from Yale U. (LOH 205, GB 69, BW-FH 201) At the 1954 trial Conference, Board Chairman Bernard B Smith delivered an eloquent talk. Its next to last paragraph is today highlighted in Chapter 1 of the AA Service Manual with the title "Why Do We Need A Conference?" The actual title of his talk was "The Lost Commandment, The Dictionary and AA." He left no doubt at all that he was firmly in favor of continuing the Conference on a permanent basis. Among other items, the Conference unanimously approved the corporate renaming of the "Alcoholic Foundation" to the "General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous." The renaming took place in October 1954. June 26-29 and July 3, 1955 - the 5th and last trial Conference convened in St Louis, MO. 75 Delegates unanimously recommended adoption of a permanent Conference Charter subject to approval of the second International Convention that would convene in St Louis on July 1. Bill W brought up the first Conference discussion to change the Board ratio to a 2/3 majority of alcoholics. The board ratio issue would be debated endlessly over the course of 10 Conferences. The 1955 Conference also recommended that a plan for selecting Class B trustees be approved. This was the first move to establish Regions - the initial geographical groupings were called "Area A" thru "Area E." AA's 20th anniversary and 2nd International Convention was held in St Louis' Kiel Auditorium from July 1-3, 1955. Estimated attendance was 3,800. Its theme was "Coming of Age." On the final day of the Convention, Bill W made some introductory remarks and presented a resolution to the attendees, the heart of which read: "BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED: That the General Service Conference of Alcoholics Anonymous should become, as of this date July 3, 1955 the guardian of the Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous, the perpetuator of the World Services of our Society, the voice of the group conscience of our entire Fellowship and the sole successors to its co-founders, Dr Bob and Bill." It was unanimously approved by the attendees. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5524. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 6 - The Links Among the Traditions, Conference Charter (Warranties) and Concepts From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/12/2009 10:28:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII [Corrected version] The 1955 approval of the Conference also extended to a new publication titled "The Third Legacy Manual of World Service as Proposed by Bill" the forerunner of today's "AA Service Manual" both of which contain the Conference Charter. The Conference Charter has 12 Articles, the 12th of which is also called "The General Warranties of the Conference." The six Warrantees in Article 12 are a condensed version of the Traditions to ensure that the Conference always functions in the spirit of the Traditions. In 1962, the Warranties also formed Concept 12 of the Twelve Concepts for World Service. The second edition Big Book was introduced at the 1955 international Convention at a retail price of $4.50 ($33 today). It contained a new appendix with the short and long form of the Traditions. However, it mistakenly listed the short form version published in the November 1949 Grapevine instead of the version published in the 12&12 in 1953. The error was not fully corrected until the sixth printing in 1963. (AACOA 220-227, PIO 354, 357) At the 1956 Conference Bill W gave a talk on the rights of "Petition, Appeal, Participation and Decision" describing them as "four principles that might someday permeate all of AA's services." They later became key principles of the 12 Concepts for World Service, specifically Concepts 3, 4, 5 and 6. They would also be called "traditional rights" in the Concepts and lead some to later call the Twelve Concepts "AA's Bill of Rights." (SM 68) The 1957 Conference approved a new set of "BYLAWS of the General Service Board" written by Bernard B Smith. They are today contained in the "AA Service Manual" as Appendix E. The 1957 Conference also approved publication of "AA Comes of Age." Guised as a 3-day diary of the 1955 Convention, it is in fact a definitive history of AA up to 1955. The Conference further recommended that no change in Article 12 of the Conference Charter or in AA Tradition or in the 12 Steps may be made with less than the written consent of three fourths (or 75%) of AA groups. The 1958 Conference approved removing the word "honest" from the term "honest desire to stop drinking" in the AA Preamble. AA legend sometimes erroneously states that the word "honest" was removed from Tradition 3. Neither the long nor the short form of Tradition 3 ever contained the word "honest." The term "honest desire to stop drinking" is from the Foreword to the first edition Big Book. It also led to changing the wording of the AA Preamble from "AA has no dues or fees" to "There are no dues or fees for AA membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions." The changes were approved by the General Service Board in the summer of 1958 (Best of the Grapevine, vol.1, 274-275) The 1959 Conference voted to change the corporate name "Alcoholics Anonymous Publishing" to "Alcoholics Anonymous World Services (AAWS)." The Board approved the name change in October 1960. 1960 April -, Bill W declined the opportunity to be on the cover of Time magazine. (BW-FH 201) At the1960 Conference Bill W announced that for the prior 3 years, he had worked on codifying principles and developing essays for the structure of the Third Legacy of Service. The principles were announced as the Twelve Concepts for World Service. The Board adopted a policy that: "The Board believes that AA members generally think it unwise to break the anonymity of a member even after his death, but that in each situation the final decision must rest with the family." The 1962 Conference unanimously approved Bill W's manuscript titled "Twelve Concepts for World Service." The Conference recommended that the manuscript be distributed initially as a supplement to, and eventually as an integral part of, the Third Legacy Manual The 1963 Conference approved a multi-state grouping plan recommended by 1962 Conference that organized the US into six geographical Regions. Regional Trustees would be elected to the Board as Class B (or alcoholic) Trustees (AACOA x). December 1964 - Bill W enthusiastically embraced a campaign to promote vitamin B3 (niacin or nicotinic acid) therapy and created Traditions issues within the Fellowship. (PIO 388-390) The 1966 Conference approved a restructuring plan proposed by the Board in 1965, which changed the Board ratio to 14 alcoholic and 7 non-alcoholic Trustees. This ended Bill W's 10-year campaign to have alcoholics make up a 2/3 majority of the Board. The number of Regional Trustees was also increased from six to eight (six from the US and two from Canada). The Board report accepted by the 1967 Conference recommended that "to insure separation of AA from non-AA matters by establishing a procedure whereby all inquiries pertaining to B-3 and niacin are referred directly to an office in Pleasantville, NY in order that Bill's personal interest in these items not involve the Fellowship." (PIO 391) The 1968 Conference resolved that the showing of the full face of an AA member at the level of press, TV, and films be considered a violation of the Anonymity Tradition, even though the name is withheld. (PI) July 1970 - AA's 35th anniversary and 5th Int'l Convention at Miami Beach, FL. Bill W appeared on Sunday morning for what proved to be his last public appearance and talk. Bill's health had steadily weakened due to emphysema. He was confined to a wheel chair and required the administration of oxygen. (AACOA xi, NG 145-146) Bill W (age 75) co-founder of AA, 36 years sober, died at Miami Beach, FL on January 24, 1971. Three months after his death, the 1971 Conference recommended that the short form of the Twelve Concepts be approved. 1974 - In order to maintain subscriber's anonymity, the legal name of The AA Grapevine was changed to "Box 1980" to comply with postal regulation requiring the corporate name of an organization be placed on official envelopes and on the magazine itself. (1989 Conference-FR 24) The 1976 Conference approved publication of the third edition Big Book. It also expanded a provision of Article 3 of the Conference Charter that any change to the Steps, Traditions or six Warranties of Article 12 of the Conference Charter, would require written approval of 75% of the registered AA Groups known to General Service Offices around the world. This advisory action makes any proposed change to the Steps, Traditions and Warranties a virtual impossibility (even so much as adding or removing a comma). The 1988 Conference approved the AA Grapevine publication of "The Language of the Heart." It contains the Traditions essays Bill W wrote during the 1940s. It also contains many memorial and historical articles. The 1988 Conference also recommended that the 1971 Conference Action be reaffirmed that: "AA members generally think it unwise to break the anonymity of a member even after his death, but in each situation the final decision must rest with the family." Further, the AA Archives continue to protect the anonymity of deceased AA members as well as other members. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5525. . . . . . . . . . . . Who wrote the Big Book story Me an Alcoholic? From: edgarc@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/12/2009 12:39:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Any idea about who the author was of the "Me an Alcoholic?" Big Book story ??? Nancy Olson's reliable reference simply says author unknown, but the story reads like he's someone we should have heard of . . . . Edgar C. Sarasota, Florida - - - - From the moderator: Nancy Olson's account does give a lot of detailed information about this person: http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm To give a few excerpts: Me an Alcoholic? 2nd edition p. 419, 3rd edition p. 432, 4th edition p. 382 Author Unknown This author's date of sobriety is believed to be November 1947. He was a father, husband, homeowner, athlete, artist, musician, author, editor, aircraft pilot, and world traveler. He was listed in "Who's Who in America." He had been successful in the publishing business, and his opinions were quoted in "Time" and "Newsweek" with pictures, and he addressed the public by radio and television. In A.A. he found the power he needed. In the seven years since he had come to A.A. he had not had a drink. He still had some hell to go through. His tower of worldly success collapsed, his alcoholic associates fired him, took control, and ran the enterprise into bankruptcy. His alcoholic wife took up with someone else and divorced him, taking with her all his remaining property. But the most terrible blow was when his sixteen-year-old son was tragically killed. Some wonderful things had happened, too. His new wife and he didn't own any property to speak of and the flashy successes of another day were gone. But they had a baby "who, if you'll pardon a little post-alcoholic sentimentality, is right out of Heaven." GFC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5526. . . . . . . . . . . . Paying his bill at the Mayflower Hotel From: stuboymooreman81 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/17/2009 6:35:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello all, Stuart from Barking Big Book study. On p. 154 of the Big Book, Bill is in the lobby of the Mayflower Hotel in Akron, "almost broke" and "wondering how his bill was to be paid." I was wondering how he did obtain the money to pay his hotel bill and so forth. Thanks a lot, Stuart IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5527. . . . . . . . . . . . Is the 3rd Step Prayer based on any earlier prayer? From: terry walton . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/18/2009 8:42:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII On page 63 of the Big Bood, we read what is commonly referred to as the 3rd step prayer: "God, I offer myself to Thee -- to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!" Is this a prayer which was originally written by some other author? Do we know who that earlier author was? Can it be found in print in some pre-AA written source? Or was it based at least in part, on some traditional prayer? If so, does anyone have a history of the development of this prayer? "Decision" is often referred to in Oxford Group books. Does the wording of this prayer in the Big Book reflect any known Oxford Group prayers? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5528. . . . . . . . . . . . Calvary Mission - Calvary House From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/19/2009 2:18:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I would like to know the exact address of the Calvary Mission which was on East 23rd Street. Also the same for the Calvary House (across the street from the Calvary Church). Photos would be much appreciated. My email address is rstonebraker212@comcast.net (rstonebraker212 at comcast.net) Thanks in advance, Bob S. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5529. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Paying his bill at the Mayflower Hotel From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/21/2009 1:07:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII How Bill Wilson's hotel bill was paid? A possible answer could lie in the fact that Bill received living expenses from the firm of Baer and Company who sent Bill to Akron to attempt a take-over of the Akron National Rubber Company. Pass It On, p. 135, third full paragraph: "He had little money, but they promised to support his efforts." Apparently they did, throughout that entire summer; page 42 of Not God, first full paragraph, states: "Early in September, Bill Wilson's proxy battle met another apparent defeat. His sponsors soured on projects continuing costs, and Bill departed for New York." Of course, one wonders whether Henrietta Seiberling might have paid it for him before he moved to the Portage Lodge that month. Bob S. - - - - stuboymooreman81 Subject: Paying his bill at the Mayflower Hotel Hello all, Stuart from Barking Big Book study. On p. 154 of the Big Book, Bill is in the lobby of the Mayflower Hotel in Akron, "almost broke" and "wondering how his bill was to be paid." I was wondering how he did obtain the money to pay his hotel bill and so forth. Thanks a lot, Stuart IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5530. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Calvary Mission - Calvary House From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/21/2009 4:49:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII "Robert Stonebraker" wrote: > I would like to know the exact address of the > Calvary Mission which was on East 23rd Street. In Helen Shoemaker's biography of her husband (I Stand By the Door: The Life of Sam Shoemaker), the address is given as 246 East 23rd Street (page 253). When Shoemaker arrived it was an unused chapel. > Also the same for the Calvary House (across > the street from the Calvary Church). According to the same book, page 89, Calvary House was built on the site of an old rectory at 103 East 21st Street. Have you checked with the parish itself for pictures? Cora IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5531. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guilded meditation From: ryantfowler@rocketmail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/16/2009 2:01:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Does anyone know what Bill Wilson's meditation practices were like, especially toward the end of his life? Also, does anyone know when guided meditation meetings were first held? - - - - From the moderator: http://hindsfoot.org/medit11.doc "Twelve-Step Meditation in the A.A. Big Book and the 12 & 12" will give you an intro to a lot of this. Among other things, this article describes how Bill W. himself talked about the use of guided imagery on page 100 of the 12 + 12. The sections at the end of the article talk about: Quiet Time Jacobson’s method of progressive relaxation (VERY effective, and too little known and used in AA) Emmet Fox, The Golden Key (plus Fox's method of reciting a mantra to quiet and calm the soul) Glenn C. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5532. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill Wilson lived with Ernest Holmes for a while? From: ryantfowler@rocketmail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/16/2009 1:57:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have come to understand that Bill Wilson was friends with Ernest Holmes. Also that Bill Wilson lived with Ernest Holmes for a while. Does anyone know when? And for how long he lived there? Ryan - - - - From the moderator: Ernest Holmes doesn't show up, under either the E's or the H's, on the list of names at http://silkworth.net/aahistory_names/names.html The name Ernest Holmes also does not show up in the indices to Pass It On, AA Comes of Age, or Not-God. - - - - But a Google search showed that claims have been made about a connection between Ernest Holmes and Bill W. by people who are involved in New Thought and New Age spirituality: http://improveourconsciouscontact.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-question-by-gai l-de\ witt.html [3] "New Thought principles are very similar to AA principles. Some research by ministers and practitioners reveals that Bill W and Ernest Holmes, the founder of Science of Mind knew each other and spent time together when creating the programs I so love today." http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=sp-bishopspong&msg=3657.4 5 "Bill W and Ernest Holmes, the Founder of the Science of Mind philosophy (Religious Science) were good friends and often traded concepts and socialized together. No wonder that many Science of Mind ideas are in AA and visa versa." - - - - The only Ernest Holmes whom I know about lived from 1887-1960 and was the founder of a movement known as Religious Science. He was an ordained Divine Science minister. In 1914, at the age of 25, Ernest moved to Venice, California. On October 23, 1927, in Los Angeles, he was married to widowed Hazel Durkee Foster. They were to be inseparable companions for thirty years. In 1926 his book "Science of Mind" was published and the Institute of Religious Science was established. By 1930, Dr. Holmes was speaking to overflow audiences on Sunday mornings at the Ebell Theatre in Los Angeles. He had a live radio program on CBS. Soon thereafter the first branch of Religious Science opened in Hollywood under the leadership of Dr. Robert Bitzer. This was the start of a worldwide movement which has made the teaching and practice of Science of Mind universally known. In 1953, the Institute became the Church of Religious Science. In 1967, it acquired its present-day title, United Church of Religious Science, with member churches throughout the world. - - - - So was there any direct link between Bill W. and the Ernest Holmes in California who founded Religious Science? Or is this just myth and legend? Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5533. . . . . . . . . . . . Where did Ebby reside during the winter of 1935/36? From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/21/2009 6:14:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Did Ebby -- being who he was, "Edwin Throckmorton Thacher, the brother of the Mayor of Albany, New York" -- really live, eat and sleep in the Calvary Mission -- or was he kept in the much nicer Calvary Parish House? Bob S. P.S. There is a picture of the Calvary Church Parish House and Mission on the site below - thanks Art! http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Indyfourthdimension ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert Stonebraker 212 SW 18th Street Richmond, IN 47347 (765) 935-0130 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5534. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Calvary Mission - Calvary House From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/22/2009 12:04:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Google search (or some other search) can provide good info: The current Calvary Episcopal Church address is: 237 Park Avenue South at 21st Street New York, N.Y. 10010 http://www.nycago.org/Organs/NYC/html/CalvaryEpis.html Graphic of church location http://stgeorgesnyc.dioceseny.org/about/directions.php A history note about Bill W and Sam shoemaker http://stgeorgesnyc.dioceseny.org/about/history.php Calvary House is adjacent to Calvary Episcopal Church - not across the street from it - the building faces Gramercy Park. The photo at the link below shows Calvary House with Calvary Church to its left. http://www.materialreligion.org/objects/may97obj.html Cheers Arthur IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5535. . . . . . . . . . . . DR. BOB against the use of vulgar lanquage From: Peter Tippett . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/22/2009 7:48:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII We had a question about Bill W. commenting on the use of foul language at meetings. Dr. Bob had a comment on that issue, see the last paragraph on page 224 of "Dr. Bob and the good Oldtimers": "While Dr. Bob's remarks were usually kind, Dan K. (who had been one of Doc's many patients at St. Thomas Hospital) noted that if a man was a phony, he would tell the man so. "And if he was sitting at a meeting and a man used bad language, Dr. Bob would say, "You have a very good lead young man, but it would be more effective if you cleaned it up a bit." Also, page 298 refers to "the language of the gutter." Pete Tippett IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5536. . . . . . . . . . . . Big Book royalties -- domestic sales only? From: tigereaz . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/16/2009 5:48:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Bob and Bill received a stipend from the sale of the BB ... but the proceeds now go to the New York GSO. The stipend was then and is now calculated only on domestic sales of the books, is that correct? Thanks Roger P IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5537. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Big Book royalties -- domestic sales only? From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2009 9:58:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Roger: The history of royalties is a rather long and complicated one. Bill and Dr Bob received royalties on the Big Book. After Dr Bob's death Bill's royalty agreement was modified a number of times to grant him royalties on the Big Book, 12&12, AA Comes of Age and The AA Way of Life (later renamed to AS Bill sees It). Royalties are calculated on sales in the US and Canada. I believe there is only one beneficiary left receiving royalties based on an agreement between Lois Wilson and AAWS. Total royalties paid from 1950 to 2007 amount to around $19 million dollars (around $37 million if adjusted for inflation and converted to 2006 dollars). I'm going to post a multi-part series on royalties on AAHL - it's a much misunderstood topic - and as noted earlier a bit of a long story. Cheers Arthur ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- Subject: Big Book royalties -- domestic sales only? Bob and Bill received a stipend from the sale of the BB ... but the proceeds now go to the New York GSO. The stipend was then and is now calculated only on domestic sales of the books, is that correct? Thanks Roger P IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5538. . . . . . . . . . . . Jim Blair will be having surgery From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2009 10:06:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII "James Blair" (jblair at videotron.ca) is going into the hospital for surgery now, here at the beginning of this week. He has been with us ever since the web group first began. He is one of the handful of key people whose work turned this web group into one of the best and most thorough historical sources around on early AA history. Please let us all give him our prayers. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5539. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill W quote: Our quarrels have not hurt us .... From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/22/2009 5:22:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Bill W. addressed one convention and said, 'Our quarrels have not hurt us one bit.' Can anyone tell me which convention it was, and where I can get a copy of his entire address to that convention? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5540. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 1 of 3: Maxwell on the Washingtonians From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/24/2009 12:38:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: James Blair (jblair at videotron.ca) Part 1 of 3: Milton A. Maxwell, "The Washingtonian Movement" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quarterly Journal of Studies On Alcohol, Vol.11,410-452,1950 THE WASHINGTONIAN MOVEMENT By Milton A. Maxwell, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Sociology State College of Washington, Pullman, Washington INTRODUCTION Certain similarities between the Washingtonian movement of the nineteenth century and the present day fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous have been commented upon by a number of observers. In view of this resemblance there is more than historical interest in an account of the first movement in the United States which brought about a large-scale rehabilitation of alcoholics. The phenomenal rise and spread of the Washingtonian movement throughout the land in the early 1940's was the occasion of much discussion, exciting a deep interest. The cause of its equally rapid decline have been a subject of much speculation and are still of concern to the members of Alcoholics Anonymous who may wonder whether or not their movement is destined to a similar fate. This article, therefore, will present not merely a description and history of the movement but also an analysis of the similarities and differences between the Washingtonians and Alcoholics Anonymous. Since the Washingtonian movement is so intimately linked to the larger temperance movement, it may be well to recall the developments which preceded 1840. Before the 1830's, "temperance" was hardly a popular cause. Even in 1812, when Lyman Beecher proposed to his fellow Congregational ministers that they formulate a program for combating intemperance, "... the regular committee reported that 'after faithful and prayerful inquiry' it was convinced that nothing could be done to check the growth of intemperance..."(1). The custom of serving liquor at ecclesiastical meetings probably influenced the outcome of this "prayerful inquiry." But Lyman Beecher was not to be stopped. He headed a new committee that recommended the following steps: .... that district assemblies abstain from the use of ardent spirits (not wine) at ecclesiastical meetings, that members of churches abstain from unlawful vending or purchase (not from lawful vending and purchase) of liquor, that farmers, mechanics and manufacturers substitute monetary compensation for the ration of spirits, that voluntary associations aid the civil magistrates to enforce the laws, and that the pamphlet of Dr. Rush (2) be printed and circulated (1).The fact that these proposals were regarded as radical by the custodians of the New England conscience is a sufficient clue to the state of public opinion in 1812. It was not until 1825 that Lyman Beecher preached his famous Six Sermons (3), in which he defined intemperance not merely as drunkenness but as the "daily use of ardent spirits." In 1826, in Boston, Beecher and Justin Edwards spearheaded the founding of the first national society, "The American Society for the Promotion of Temperance" (American Temperance Society) which sought, according to its constitution, "...to produce such a change of public sentiment, and such a renovation of the habits of individuals and the customs of the community, that in the end temperance, with all its attendant blessings, may universally prevail(4)." The temperance movement began to take hold. In 1829 there were about 1,000 societies with a membership of approximately 100,000. By 1834 there were 5,000 local societies claiming 11,000,000 members, a gain of 500 per cent in 5 years. A temperance press had been established. Effective literature had emerged. Politicians were taking notice. In 1836 the American Temperance Society was merged into the new and more inclusive "American Temperance Union," which decided to take the stand of "total abstinence from all that can intoxicate(5)." This step required an entirely new orientation. It is therefore not surprising that sone 2,000 societies and countless individuals were not ready to go along. Many wealthy contributors, unwilling to forgo wine, withdrew their support. Some leaders were discouraged by the resistance to the new pledge and became inactive. Various controversial issues added to the dissension. The movement fell upon lean years. Its leaders, in 1840, were wondering what could be done to restore the momentum of the years preceding 1836. Their effort were groping and limited. As for the alcoholic, it was the prevailing opinion, up to 1840, that nothing could be done to help him. Occasionally a "drunkard" did "reform," but this did not erase the general pessimism as to the possibility of rehabilitating drunkards. Since alcohol was held to be the "cause" of alcoholism, the temperance movement was aimed solely at keeping the nonalcoholic from becoming an alcoholic. This implied indifference to the alcoholic was epitomized by Justin Edwards in 1822: "Keep the temperate people temperate; the drunkards will soon die, and the land be free(6)." Thus the stage was set for the emergence of the Washingtonian movement. THE BALTIMORE ORIGINS One Thursday evening, April 2, 1840, six friends were drinking, as they were wont to do almost every evening, in Chasels Tavern, on Liberty Street, in Baltimore. They were William K. Mitchell, a tailor; John F. Hoss, a carpenter; David Anderson and George Steers, both blacksmiths; James McCurley, a coachmaker; and Archibald Campbell, a silversmith(7). Their conversation turned to the temperance lecture which was to be given that evening by a visiting lecturer, the Rev. Matthew Hale Smith. In a spirit of fun it was proposed that some of them go to hear the lecture and report back. Four of them went and, after their return, all discussed the lecture. ... one of their company remarked that, "after all, temperance is a good thing." "0," said the host, "they're all a parcel of hypocrites." "O yes," replied McCurley, "I'll be bound for you; it's your interest to cry them down, anyhow." "I'll tell you what, boys," says Steers, "Let's form a society and make Bill Mitchell president.".. The idea seemed to take wonderfully; and the more they laughed and talked it over, the more they were pleased with it(8). On Sunday, April 5, while the six were strolling and drinking, the suggestion crystallized into a decision to quit drinking and to organize a total abstinence society. It was agreed that Mitchell should be the president; Campbell the vice-president; Hoss, the secretary; McCurley, the treasurer; and Steers and Anderson, the standing committee. The membership fee was to be twenty-five cents; the monthly dues, 12½ cents. The proposal that they name the society in honour of Thomas Jefferson was finally rejected and it was decided that the president and the secretary, since they were to be the committee to draft the constitution, should also decide upon the name. It was agreed that each man should bring a man to the next meeting. And it was left to the president to compose the pledge which they would all sign the next day. The pledge was formulated by Mitchell as follows: "We whose names are annexed, desirous of forming a society for our mutual benefit, and to guard against a pernicious practice which is injurious to our health, standing, and families, do pledge ourselves as gentlemen that we will not drink any spirituous or malt liquors, wine or cider." He went with it, about nine o'clock, to Anderson's house and found him still in bed, sick from the effects of his Sunday adventure. He rose, however, dressed himself, and after hearing the pledge read, went down to his shop for pen and ink, and there did himself the honour of being the first man who signed the Washington pledge. After obtaining the names of the other four, the worthy president finished this noble achievement by adding his own(8). The name, "Washington Temperance Society, 11 was selected in honour of George Washington. Two new members were brought to the second meeting. Strangely enough, they continued to meet for a number of weeks at their accustomed place in Chase's Tavern. When the tavern owner's wife objected to the increasing loss of their best customers, Mitchell's wife suggested that they meet in their home. This they did until the group grew too large, whereupon they moved to a carpenter's shop on Little Sharp Street. Eventually, they rented a hall of their own. As they grew in membership they faced the problem of making their weekly meetings interesting. Their resourceful president made the suggestion that each member relate his own experience. He started off with his story of 15 years of excessive drinking, adding his reactions to his newly gained freedom. Others followed suit. This procedure proved to be so interesting and effective that it became a permanent feature of their programs. Interest and membership mounted. In November the society resolved to try a public meeting in which Mitchell and others would tell their personal experiences. The first such meeting, held on November 19, 1840, in the Masonic Hall on St. Paul Street, was a decided success. Not only did it bring in additional members but it also called the movement to the interested attention of the people of Baltimore. It was decided to repeat these public meetings about once a month in addition to the regular weekly meetings of the society. John Zug, a citizen of Baltimore who probably had his interest aroused by the first public meeting, made further inquiry and, on December 12, 1840, wrote a letter to the Rev. John Marsh, executive secretary of the American Temperance Union, in New York City, informing him of the new society in Baltimore. In it he told about the growth of the group: These half a dozen men immediately interested themselves to persuade their old bottle-companions to unite with them, and they in a short time numbered nearly one hundred members, a majority of whom were reformed drunkards. By their unprecedented exertions from the beginning, they have been growing in numbers, extending their influence, and increasing in interest, until now they number about three hundred members, upwards of two hundred of whom are reformed drunkards - reformed, too, within the last eight months. Many of these had been drunkards of many years' standing, - notorious for their dissipation. indeed, the society has done wonders in the reformation of scores whose friends and the community had despaired of long since(9). So rapidly did the society grow during the following months that on the first anniversary of the society, April 5, 1841, there were about 1,000 reformed drunkards and 5,000 other members and friends in the parade to celebrate the occasion. This demonstration made a deep impression upon the 40,000 or so Baltimoreans who witnessed the event. Additional information on the pattern of activities which made this growth possible, and on the components of the therapeutic program which made the reformation of alcoholics possible in the first place, is given in the writings of contemporary observers. John Zug, in his first letter to John Marsh, included the following description: The interest connected with this society is maintained by the continued active exertions of its members, the peculiar character of their operations and the frequency of their meetings. The whole society is considered a "grand committee of the whole," each member exerting himself, from week to week, and from day to day, as far as possible, to persuade his friends to adopt the only safe course, total abstinence; or at least to accompany him to the next meeting of the "Washington Temperance Society." It is a motto of their energetic and worthy President, in urging the attendance of the members at the stated meetings, "Let every man be present, and every man bring with him a man." They have rented a public hall in which they meet every Monday night. At these weekly meetings, after their regular business is transacted, the several members rise promiscuously and state their temperance experience for each other' a warning, instruction, and encouragement. After this, any persons present wishing to unite with them are invited forward to sign the Constitution and Pledge(9). Christian Keener, the editor of the Maryland Herald, made these further first-hand observations: These men spared neither their money nor their time in carrying out the principles which they had espoused. Many a poor fellow who from the effect of liquor had become a burden to his family and himself was fed and clothed by them, and won by kindness to reform his life; even more than this, they have supported the families of those who they had induced to join with them, until the husband and father had procured work, and was able to support them with his own hands. The peculiar characteristics of this great reform are first, a total abstinence pledge .... Secondly, the telling of others what they know from experience of the evils of intemperance, and the good which they feel to result from entire abstinence(9). John W. Hawkins, an early member, had this to say in one of his Boston speeches: Drunkard! Come up here! you can reform. I met a gentleman this morning who reformed four weeks ago, rejoicing in his reformation; he brought a man with him who took the pledge and this man brought two others. This is the way we do the business up in Baltimore. We reformed drunkards are a Committee of the Whole on the State of the Union. We are all missionaries. We don't slight the drunkard; we love him, we nurse him, as a mother does her infant learning to walk(10). Christian Keener, in another communication, summed up the work as follows, making at the same time a comparison with the operations of the regular temperance societies: The great advantage of the Washington Temperance Society has been this; they have reached hundreds of men that would not come out to our churches, nor even temperance meetings; they go to their old companions and drag them, not by force, but by friendly consideration of duty, and a sense of self-respect, into their ranks, and watch over them with the solicitude of friends and brothers...(9). Such was the character of the original Baltimore "Washington Temperance Society." THE SPREAD OF THE MOVEMENT A phenomenon like this could not be confined to Baltimore, for the Washington men had it in their power to meet many pressing needs. First of all, there were the drunkards in need of reclamation - a need long ignored because the opinion prevailed that there was no hope for them. The meeting of this need partook of the miraculous. Secondly, there was the overwhelming drive on the part of the reformed men to carry their message of hope to other victims of drink - spilling over into a desire to prevent such suffering by winning those not addicted to certain sobriety in total abstinence. Finally, there were the needs of the temperance leaders. Set back by the 1836 decision to put temperance on a total abstinence basis, they needed a convincing argument for total abstinence as well as some effective means of rekindling enthusiasm for their cause. The Washington men were the answer to these needs, for what could be a better argument for total abstinence than its apparent power to reclaim even the confirmed drunkard; and what could excite more interest than the personally told experiences of reformed drunkards? The first recorded activity outside of Baltimore was the speaking of John H.W. Hawkins, in February 1841, to the delegates of the Maryland State Temperance Society, meeting in Annapolis, and to the members of the State Legislature in the same city. Hawkins, who was to become the most effective spokesman of the movement, had joined the Washington Temperance Society on June 14, 1840, after more than 20 years of excessive drinking. Born in Baltimore on September 28, 1797, he was apprenticed at an early age to a hatmaker. During this apprenticeship he developed a dependence on alcohol which was increased during 3 years in the frontier communities of the West. His religious conversion at the age of 18 did not eradicate this craving. Resuming his trade in Baltimore, he battled in vain against his addiction. The panic of 1937 left him unemployed, reducing him to a pauper on public relief. Guilt and remorse over his family's destitution only intensified his alcoholism. His own account of his last drinking days and his reclamation, as given in his first New York talk, are preserved for us: "Never," said he, "shall I forget the 12th of June last. The first two weeks in June I averaged - it is a cross to acknowledge it - as much as a quart and a pint a day. That morning I was miserable beyond conception, and was hesitating whether to live or die. My little daughter came to my bed and said, II hope you won't send me for any more whiskey today.' I told her to go out of the room. She went weeping. I wounded her sorely, though I had made up my mind I would drink no more. I suffered all the horrors of the pit that day, but my wife supported me. She said, "Hold on, hold on. I Next day I felt better. Monday I wanted to go down and see my old associates who had joined the Washington Society. I went and signed. I felt like a free man. What was I now to do to regain my character? My friends took me by the hand. They encouraged me. They did right. If there is a man on earth who deserves the sympathy of the world it is the poor drunkard; he is poisoned, cast out, knows not what to do, and must be helped or be lost... (8). "It did not take his associates long to discover that he had the qualities of a leader. A splendid physique and commanding presence, combined with a gift for extemporaneous speaking, made him an ideal lecturer.(l)" It is not surprising, therefore, that Hawkins was selected to speak before the Maryland State Temperance Society and the State Legislature. Christian Keener left an eyewitness report of the latter occasion which helps to explain Hawkins' appeal: .... He commenced his speech by letting them know that he stood before then a reformed drunkard, less than twelve months ago taken almost out of the gutter; and now in the Senate chamber of his native State, addressing hundreds of the best informed and most intelligent men and women, and they listened with tearful attention. The circumstances had an almost overpowering effect on his own feelings and those of his audience. He is a man of plain, good common sense, with a sincerity about him, and easy way of expressing himself, that every word took like a point-blank shot. His was the eloquence of the heart; no effort at display(9). About this time, a Baltimore businessman attended a temperance meeting in New York City. News of the Baltimore developments having already been circulated by John Marsh through the Journal of the American Temperance Union, this visitor was requested to give a brief history and description of the Washington Soc3ety. A conversation with Dr. Rease, after the meeting, brought forth the suggestion that some of the Washington men be invited to New York to relate their experiences. This tentative proposition was taken to the Baltimore society, accepted by them, and the arrangements completed for a delegation of five to go. The five were William K. Mitchell, John W. Hawkins, J.F. Pollard, and two other members, Shaw and Casey. Their first meeting in New York was held on Tuesday, March 23, 1841, in the Methodist Episcopal Church on Green Street. The curious throngs were not disappointed. As in Baltimore, the experiences of these "reformed drunkards" deeply moved and inspired all those who came to hear. Not only that, but real-life drama was enacted at the meeting. The New York Commercial Advertiser reported the next morning: During the first speech a young man rose in the gallery and, though intoxicated, begged to know if there was any hope for him; declaring his readiness to bind himself, from that hour, to drink no more. He was invited to come down and sign the pledge, which he did forthwith, in the presence of the audience, under deep emotion, which seemed to be contagious, for others followed; and during each of the speeches they continued to come forward and sign, until more than a hundred pledges were obtained; a large portion of which were intemperate persons, some of whom were old and grey headed. Such a scene as was beheld at the secretary's table while they were signing, and the unaffected tears that were flowing, and the cordial greetings of the recruits by the Baltimore delegates, was never before witnessed in New York(8). All the subsequent meetings were equally successful. John Marsh and the other temperance leaders who were promoting the meetings were delighted. With no church large enough to hold the curious crowds, it was decided to hold an open air meeting in City Hall Park. More than 4,000 turned out for this. The speakers, mounted on upturned rum kegs, again enthraled the crowd. This impressive occasion was merely the climax of a triumphant campaign: about 2,000 were converted to the total abstinence pledge, including many confirmed drunkards with whom the men worked between meetings. At this time the Washington Temperance Society of New York was organized. The delegation returned to Baltimore in time for the first anniversary parade and celebration, an April 5th. With the memory of the New York success still fresh in their minds, this must have been a very happy and meaningful occasion - not merely the recognition of a year's achievement, but also a portent of things to come. Things began to happen rapidly now. While the New York meetings were in progress, John Marsh wrote to the Boston temperance leaders about the power of the Washingtonian appeal. Arrangements were quickly made so that within a week after the first anniversary celebration Hawkins and William E. Wright were on their way to Boston for a series of meetings in the churches. There were those who doubted that Bostonians would respond as enthusiastically as New Yorkers, but the coming of these speakers was well published and even larger crowds than in New York greeted them. The first meeting was held on April 15, 1841. The Daily Mail had this report the following morning: The Odeon was filled to its utmost capacity, last evening, by a promiscuous audience of temperance men, distillers, wholesalers and retail dealers in ardent spirits, conformed inebriates, moderate drinkers, lovers of the social glass, teetotallers, etc., to listen to the speeches of the famous "Reformed Drunkards," delegates from the Washington Temperance Society of Baltimore, who have excited such a deep interest in the cause of temperance in other places...Mr. Hawkins of Baltimore, was the second of the "Reformed Drunkards" introduced to the meeting. He was a man of forty-four years of age - of fine manly form - and he said he had been more than twenty years a confirmed inebriate. He spoke with rather more fluency, force and effect, than his predecessor, but in the same vein of free and easy, off-hand, direct, bang-up style; at times in a single conversational manner, then earnest and vehement, then pathetic, then humorous - but always manly and reasonable. Mr. Hawkins succeeded in "working up" his audience finely. Now the house was as quiet and still as a deserted church, and anon the high dome rang with violent bursts of laughter and applause. Now he assumed the melting mood, and pictured the scenes of a drunkard's home, and that home his own, and fountains of generous feelings, in many hearts, gushed forth in tears - and again, in a moment, as he related, some ludicrous story, these tearful eyes glistened with delight, sighs changed to hearty shouts, and long faces were convulsed with broad grins and glorious smiles(1). The Boston Mercantile Journal reported the same meeting in the following manner: The exercises at the temperance meeting at the Odeon last evening possessed a deep and thrilling interest. The hall was crowded and Messrs. Hawkins and Wright...spoke with great eloquence and power for more than two hours, and when, at ten o'clock, they proposed abridging somewhat they had to say, shouts of "Go on! Go on!" were heard from all parts of the house. We believe more tears were never shed by an audience in one evening than flowed last night...Old grey haired men sobbed like children, and the noble and honourable bowed their heads and wept. Three hundred and seventy-seven came forward and made "the second declaration of independence," by pledging themselves to touch no intoxicating drink; among them were noticed many bloated countenances, familiar as common drunkards; and we promise them health, prosperity, honour, and happiness in the pursuance of their new principles(9). When even the standing room in Faneuil Hall was filled, a few evenings later, and the crowd responded with unrestrained enthusiasm, several hundred coming forward to sign the pledge at the close of the meeting, there was no longer any doubt that the Washingtonian reformers had a universally potent appeal. Here was "human interest" material par excellence. No fiction could be more exciting or dramatic. These true-life narratives pulled at the heartstrings. They aroused awe and wonder at the "miracle of rebirth." Formal religious beliefs had flesh and blood put on dry bones. And, to the victim of drink, the Washingtonian message was like a promise of life to a doomed man. It was the impossible come true. During these meetings, a Washington Total-Abstinence Society was formed in Boston. Hawkins was also engaged as the paid secretary of the Massachusetts Temperance Society, and on June 1, 1841, returned from Baltimore with his family. Within a short space of time, he and his Boston associates succeeded in carrying the Washingtonian movement into 160 New England towns. On May 11, 1841, the executive committee of the American Temperance Union, on the occasion of its anniversary meeting in New York City, paid high tribute to the Washingtonians. In July at the national convention of the Union, at Saratoga Springs, this praise was even more fulsome. John Marsh and many of the other leaders saw in the Washingtonians the possibilities of a great forward advance for the temperance movement. None of them, however, even in their most optimistic moments, sensed the vitality that was to be manifested by the Washingtonian movement that very summer and autumn. Even before the Saratoga convention, two of the most famous of the many Washingtonian deputation teams, Pollard and Wright, and Vickers and Small, had begun extensive tours. By autumn, many teams and individuals were in the field. From the 1842 Report of the American Temperance Union, it is possible to trace the rapid spread of the movement throughout the country. J.F. Pollard and W.E. Wright, both of Baltimore - the former having accompanied Hawkins to New York, and the latter to Boston - began their work early in the summer of 1841 in Hudson, New York. Their first efforts were discouraging, but soon they got attention and in a few weeks nearly 3,000 of the 5,500 inhabitants of Hudson had signed the pledge. A Hudson resident has left this account of their type of meeting: Some of the meeting took the air of deep religious solemnity, eyes that never wept before were suffused...the simple tale of the ruined inebriate, interrupted by a silence that told of emotions too big for utterance, would awaken general sympathy, and dissolve a large portion of the audience in tears. The spell which had bound so many seemed to dissolve under the magic eloquence of those unlettered men. They spoke from the heart to the heart. The drunkard found himself unexpectedly an object of interest. He was no longer an outcast. There were some who still looked upon him as a man. A chord was reached which had long since ceased to respond to other influences less kind in their nature...The social principle operated with great power. A few leaders in the ranks of intemperance having signed the pledge, it appeared to be the signal for the mass to follow: and on they came, like a torrent sweeping everything before it. It was for weeks the all-absorbing topic...(7). Pollard and Wright attended the Saratoga convention and then toured through central and western New York; and that autumn, through New Jersey and Pennsylvania. On this tour they obtained 23,340 signatures to the pledge, "one-fifth of which were supposed to be common drunkards"(7). Late in 1841 they spoke in Maryland and Delaware. They moved in January 1842 into Virginia, where they worked particularly in Richmond, Petersburg, Charlottesville and Norfolk, pledging Negroes as well as whites. The other famous team, Jesse Vickers and Jesse W. Small, also of Baltimore, began their campaign in June 1841 in Pittsburgh, where "all classes, all ages, all ranks and denominations, and both sexes, pressed every night into overflowing churches." In a brief time 10,000 were pledged, "including a multitude of most hopeless characters"(7). This success was followed by another in Wheeling, from which place they proceeded to Cincinnati where Lyman Beecher, now president of Lane Theological Seminary, had diligently prepared the way for their coming. Large crowds turned out for the meetings and a strong Washington society was organized which, by the end of 1841, claimed 8,000 members, 900 of them reformed. Cincinnati became the chief centre of Washingtonianism in the West, and Vickers and Small spent a great deal of time preparing the converts who were to carry on the missionary work. One of these Cincinnati teams, Brown and Porter, obtained 6,529 signatures in an 8-week campaign in the surrounding country, 1,630 of them from "hard drinkers" and 700 from confirmed drunkards. Another Cincinnati team, Turner and Guptill, toured western Ohio and Michigan. On December 21, 1841, a team of three, probably including Vickers, began a campaign in St. Louis, laying the foundation for a Washington society that numbered 7,500 within a few months. Many communities in Kentucky, Indiana and Illinois were also visited. It is interesting to note that on February 22, 1842, Abraham Lincoln addressed the Washington Society of Springfield, Ill. Just how quickly the West was cultivated by the Washingtonian missionaries, operating chiefly out of Cincinnati, is shown by the May 1842 claims of 60,000 signatures in Ohio, 30,000 in Kentucky, and 10,000 in Illinois. Of these, it was claimed, "every seventh man is a reformed drunkard, and every fourth man a reformed tippler"(7). The intensity of this cultivation varied with time and place. How intensive it could be is well portrayed by a citizen of Pittsburgh, in a letter to John Marsh, in April 1842: The work has grown in this city and vicinity...at such a rate as has defied a registration of its triumphs with anything like statistical accuracy. ...The most active agents and labourers in the field have been at no time able to report the state of the work in their own entire province - the work spread us from place to place - running in so many currents, and meeting in their way so many others arising from other sources, or springing spontaneously in their pathway, that no one could measure its dimensions or compass its spread. We have kept some eight or ten missionaries in the field ever since last June, who have toiled over every part and parcel of every adjoining country of Pennsylvania, and spread thence into Ohio and Virginia, leaving no school house, or country church, or little village, cross roads, forge, furnace, factory, or mills, unvisited; holding meetings wherever two or three could be gathered together, and organizing as many as from 20 to 30 societies in a single county...(7). In the Boston area, Washingtonian activity was intensive from the beginning. Within 3 months after the first Hawkins and Wright meetings, the Boston society had this to report: Since this society went into operation the delegating committee have sent out two hundred and seventeen delegations to one hundred and sixty towns in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, and Rhode Island, with wonderful success....Some of those towns where we have formed societies are now sending out their delegates. The whole country is now alive to the subject...It is acknowledged on all sides that no people like ours - although unlearned - could create such a wonderful interest in the all absorbing cause.... There is no doubt that about 50,000 persons have signed the pledge in the different towns that our delegates have visited. Where societies were already formed, a more lively interest was created, - new signers obtained from those who had been inebriates, and thus a new energy imparted...Where societies had not before existed, new societies were formed...(8). Ten months later, in May 1842, the Boston society had 13,000 members, had sent 260 delegations to 350 towns in New England, and had produced a number of converts who had become effective missionaries outside of New England. Benjamin Goodhue, in December 1841, stirred up great interest in Sag Harbour and the east end of Long Island. A Mr. Cady, during this winter, toured North Carolina, securing 10,000 signatures. In February 1842 Joseph J. Johnson and an unnamed fellow Bostonian conducted successful campaigns in Mobile and New Orleans. By May 1842 the movement had penetrated every major area of the country and was going particularly strong in central New York and New England. The most vigorous urban centres were Baltimore, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Cincinnati and St. Louis. The city of Baltimore had 15 societies and 7,842 members. New York and vicinity had 23 societies and 16,000 members. In the Journal of the American Temperance Union, on April 1, 1842, John Marsh wrote enthusiastically of the New York activity: "We suppose there are not less than fifty meetings held weekly and most of them are perfect jams. Our accessions are numerous and often of the most hopeless characters"(9). In and around Philadelphia, where the societies took the name of Jefferson, some 20,000 members were enrolled. In the district of Columbia there were 4,297 members, and another 1,000 in Alexandria, Va. Later in the year Hawkins visited Washington and was successful in reactivating the old Congressional Temperance Society and putting it on a total abstinence basis. Congressman George N. Briggs, soon to be Governor of Massachusetts, became president of this reorganized society. To the list of outstanding reformed men who became effective Washingtonian missionaries during this first year, there should be added the names of George Haydock, Hudson, N.Y.(8,000 signatures); Col. John Wallis, Philadelphia (7,000 signatures); Thomas M. Woodruff, New York City; Abel Bishop, New Haven, Conn.; and Joseph Hayes, Bath, Me. During 1842 the most outstanding temperance orator of all was won to the cause. John B. Gough, a bookbinder, was reformed. When his platform ability was discovered, many Washingtonian societies sponsored his addresses. As his popularity grew he became a professional free-lance lecturer; and during the years 1843-47 travelled 6,840 miles, gaining 15,218 signatures to thepledge(11). Another important development was the organization of women into the little known "Martha Washington" societies. The first such society was organized "in a church at the corner of Chrystie and Delancey Streets, New York, on May 12 of that year [1841], through the efforts of William A. Wisdom and John W. Oliver"(12). The constitution detailed the purpose: Whereas, the use of all intoxicating drinks has caused, and is causing, incalculable evils to individuals and families, and has a tendency to prostrate all means adapted to the moral, social and eternal happiness of the whole human family; we, the undersigned ladies of New York, feeling ourselves especially called upon, not only to refrain from the use of all intoxicating drinks, but, by our influence and example, to induce others to do the same, do therefore form ourselves into an association(12). These Martha Washington societies were organized in many places, functioning to some extent as auxiliaries of the Washingtonian societies, but also engaged in the actual rehabilitation of alcoholic women. In the annual Report of 1843, there is this reference"...the Martha Washington Societies, feeding the poor, clothing the naked, and reclaiming the intemperate of their own sex, have been maintained, in most places, with great spirit..."(7). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5541. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 2 of 3: Maxwell on the Washingtonians From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/24/2009 12:40:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: James Blair (jblair at videotron.ca) Part 2 of 3: Milton A. Maxwell, "The Washingtonian Movement" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DURATION OF THE MOVEMENT How long the Washingtonian movement continued in full force is a difficult question to answer. The most dramatic strides were made between the summers of 1841 and 1842, but apparently the peak of activity was reached in 1843. That year, Gough was touring New England, and Hawkins northern and western New York as well as sections of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. R.P. Taylor was doing effective work in Georgia. Late that autumn Hawkins campaigned in North Carolina and Georgia, stimulating great Washingtonian activity in that region. It was a year of high activity, with the major portion of the work carried on, as it was through most of the life of the movement, by numerous Washingtonians whose names are unrecorded. On May 28,1844, in Boston, the Washingtonians were the sponsors of , and leading participants in, the largest temperance demonstration ever held, up to that time, with nearly 30,000 members of various temperance organizations participating. Governor George N. Briggs, William K. Mitchell and John B. Gough were the leading speakers. In the fall of 1845 Hawkins began one of his most intensive campaigns, in Ohio, Indiana and Illinois, winding up in the spring of 1846 with very successful meetings in New Orleans and Mobile. During this 8-month period Hawkins not only spoke daily but also directed the work of many assistants and helped, as he always did, to organize societies to continue the work. In much of the territory covered by Hawkins on this campaign the Washingtonian movement was still at full tide in 1845 and 1846. This tends to corroborate the generalization of Wooley and Johnson that "for four years it continued to sweep the country." But in some of the cities which had been reached by the movement in 1841, a decline had already set in. In New York City the Sons of Temperance, a total abstinence order which had been founded with the help and blessing of Washingtonians, had begun, late in 1842, to receive into its membership many Washingtonians. Slowly but increasingly it displaced the function of the Washington societies. In Cincinnati, in January 1845, Lyman Beecher wrote to John Marsh about the "resurgence of the liquor tide" and of the need for a new type of temperance appeal. He thought that "though the Washingtonians have endured and worked well, their thunder is worn out"(13). Fehlandt (4) states that "By 1843...interest began to wane, and soon Washingtonianism had spent its force." It might be correct to say that the first signs of waning interest appeared in 1843 but it is not probable that such signs were detectable in most areas before 1844 - and in some areas not until latter. Hence, no generalization seems to apply to the entire country. Most significant as an index of general interest are the references to the Washingtonian movement in the annual Reports of the executive committee of the American Temperance Union, published in May of each year. The 1842 Report enthusiastically details the spread of the movement. The 1843 Report reflects continued enthusiasm. The 1844 Report notes that the movement "has continued through its fourth year with as much interest as could be expected." The 1845 Report contains news of the crowded weekly meetings and increased success of the Hartford, Conn., Washington Temperance Society, but there is also expressed the feeling of John Marsh that the movement "has in a considerable measure spent its force." In the 1846 Report the movement is referred to as "once so deeply enlisting the sympathies." In the 1847 Report it is admitted that "The reformation of drunkards has not, as in former years, formed a prominent part of the year now past." The 1848 Report contains no mention of the Washingtonian movement at all. Hawkins, Gough and others were called Washingtonians to the end of their lives, but there is no record, to the writer's knowledge, of organized Washingtonian activity beyond 1847 except in the Boston area.*3* There in March 1847, the Washingtonians of New England held a large convention. In January 1848 the Boston Washington Society reported having 56,380 signatures since the date of its founding in 1841. According to Harrison (8), writing in 1860, the Boston society continued to exist and meet weekly up to 1860, at which time 70,000 signatures were claimed. In 1858 the Home for the Fallen, using Washingtonian principles in the rehabilitation of alcoholics, was in existence in Boston.*4* But in other parts of the country, by 1858, there were to be found references to "the early days" when Washingtonianism swept the country. ______________________________ *3* The writer has since learned of the existence of the Washingtonian Home in Chicago, founded in 1863 by members of the Order of Good Templars who may well have been Washingtonians. This institution is still engaged exclusively in the rehabilitation of alcoholics. *4* This institution has been in continuous existence to the present time, having undergone a number of changes in name and in policy. It is now known as the Washington Hospital and engages in the treatment of alcoholism by contemporary medical and social techniques. ______________________________ NUMERICAL SUCCESS How many persons became members of the Washingtonian societies? There is no satisfactory answer to this question. The statistics that are available are varied, contradictory and, hence, unreliable; furthermore, they are given on two different bases - the number who signed the total abstinence pledge, and the number of drunkards reclaimed. Neither of these coincides with the membership of Washingtonian societies. Several sources(12,14) repeat the American Temperance Union estimate (7) that by 1843, 5,000,000 had signed the total abstinence pledge and were associated with over 10,000 local societies. Since only 350,000 such signers had been claimed in 1839 (15), this would mean a gain of over 4,500,000 as a result of the Washingtonian "pledge-signing revival." This would represent nearly one-fourth of the total U.S. population aged 15 years and over. When it is considered, as E.M. Jellinek has estimated, that for the population aged 15 years and older the per capita consumption of distilled spirits decreased by only 14.3 per cent (form 4.9 gallons) between 1840 and 1850, some doubt is thrown upon the validity of this estimate. Marsh himself, in 1848, revised his estimate of total abstainers downward to 4,000,000 (7). Even this number points to the probability that a large percentage of the pledge signers were under the age of 15. Furthermore, since the signers belonged to all kinds of temperance societies, it is impossible to estimate what percentage, or how many, were enrolled in Washingtonian societies. In attempting to estimate the number of alcoholics reclaimed by the Washingtonian movement, more difficulties are encountered. The major one is the fact that all the societies had mixed memberships - former teetotallers (often children), moderate drinkers, excessive drinkers, and confirmed alcoholics. Nevertheless, estimates have been made and the claims vary from 100,000 (12) to 600,000. The latter figure, often repeated, seems to be based on the 1843 Report (7) of the American Temperance Union, in which it stated that: "A half-million hard drinkers often drunken, and a hundred thousand sots...may safely be considered as having been brought to sign the total abstinence pledge within the last two years." Wooley and Johnson (12) state: "It is commonly computed that at least one hundred thousand common drunkards were reclaimed in the crusade and at least three times as many common tipplers became total abstainers." This seems to be based on Eddy (14), who in turn seems to be quoting an American Temperance Union estimate that, by the summer of 1842, "the reformation had included at least 100,000 common drunkards, and three times that number of tipplers who were in a fair way to become sots." One chief difficulty resides in the employment of an undefined terminology, including "hard drinkers often drunken;" "confirmed drinkers;" "drunkard;" "common drunkard;" "conformed drunkard;" "inebriate;" "sot;" "tippler;" "common tippler;" and "tipplers in a fair way to become sots." What do these terms mean and how were they distinguished from each other? Ignoring the loose use of these terms, for the moment, and turning to the percentage of reclaimed inebriates in Washingtoniansocieties, a great variety of claims is to be noted. Eight months after its beginning the Baltimore society claimed that two-thirds of their 300 members were reclaimed drunkards(9). At the close of 1841 it was claimed that 100,000 pledges had been taken as a result of Washingtonian activity, "more than one-third by confirmed drinkers"(16). But in the statistics offered by the same source, and for the same period of time, by the vigorous Cincinnati Washington society, only 900 (11.3 per cent) of the 8,000 members were said to have been reformed drunkards. A Battleboro, Vt., report stated: "We have 150 members already in our Washington Society, six or seven hard cases." This comes to four or five per cent. Of the 42,273 pledged members in 82 Vermont towns cited in the 1844 Report, only 518 (1.2 per cent) were reformed drunkards probably varied greatly from community to community - and probably varied at different times even in the same society. Since the American Temperance Union records are the chief source of information for later historians, some weight may be given to John Marsh's later estimate (13) that 150,000 drunkards were permanently rescued as a result of Washingtonian activity. But when his 1843 estimate of "A half million hard drinkers often drunken, and a hundred thousand sots" is recalled, it is impossible not to be suspicious of his estimates - and particularly of his use of terms. The number may well have been less than 150,000, and it may well have included everything from "confirmed drinkers," to "hard drinkers often drunken" to "common drunkards" to "sots." What are the numbers of true alcoholics was, is anyone's guess. But if there is uncertainty concerning the number of alcoholics temporarily helped or permanently rehabilitated - or the number of persons who became total abstainers - there is no question that the movement made a tremendous impact. Its results, furthermore, were not short-lived. Within the temperance there was not only a decided gain of strength but also the opening of "the way for more advanced thought and effort...(14)." As for the problem of alcoholism, some permanent though limited gain resulted. Dr. T.D. Crothers, a leading psychiatrist of his time, wrote in 1911: The Washingtonian movement...was a great clearing house movement, breaking up old theories and giving new ideas of the nature and character of inebriety. It was literally a sudden and intense projection of the ideas of the moral side of inebriety, into public thought, and while it reacted when the reform wave died out, it served to mobilize and concentrate public attention upon the question, of how far the inebriate could control his malady, and what efforts were needed to enable him to live temperately. This first practical effort to settle these questions was the beginning of the organization of lodging houses for the members of the societies who had failed to carry out the pledges which they had made. This was really the beginning of the hospital system of cure, and was the first means used to give practical help to the inebriate, in a proper home, with protection, until he was able to go out, with a degree of health and hope of restoration (17). ORGANIZATION AND PROCEDURE As has been indicated, the Washingtonian movement took organized form in the thousands of local total abstinence societies which, almost without exception, had a mixed membership of former teetotallers and moderate drinkers as well as inebriates of various degrees. This was the pattern set by the original Baltimore society. A large percentage of these societies, presumably, were new societies carrying the Washington name. Many were old societies, reorganized and renamed. But often the work was carried on in societies already in existence, without any change in name. Hawkins, it will be recalled, became the paid secretary of the Massachusetts Temperance Society. Nevertheless, he was active in the Boston Washington society. There seemed, at the time, to be no organizational rivalry, and that must have been true in many communities throughout the years of the movement. In Alabama, Sellers (18) states, "This organization [Washingtonian] was never an independent unit, but was attached to temperance societies already existing." On the other hand, rivalry and mutual resentment between the "old" and the "new" societies did develop in many communities. Even in Boston, in the demonstration in which so many societies of all types participated in May 1844, the old Massachusetts Temperance Society and the old Massachusetts Temperance Union did not take part (1). Krout summarizes the difficulties that developed between the Washingtonians and the older societies in many communities: Under the compulsion of popular demand many of the old societies had employed Washingtonian speakers to revive a waning interest, but they had been disappointed that the new pledge-signers could seldom be persuaded to join existing organizations. Wherever Washingtonian workers conducted campaigns, it was necessary either to form a new society officered by reform men, or to convert the old group into a Washingtonian abstinence society. To some who had laboured long in temperance work...it appeared...that the Washingtonians had no interest in the triumphs of the struggle prior to 1840. The younger movement seemed to be unwilling to learn anything from the older. Its membership scoffed at the methods and principles formerly held in esteem...The old leaders were being set aside. Any Tom, Dick or Harry could direct the course of the reform. Washingtonian "Heralds," "Standards" and "Advocates" were springing up everywhere, and then expiring from lack of funds. Their existence was too often marked by unpleasant controversies with other temperance periodicals. The Washingtonians, on the other hand, charged that the older societies refused to co-operate with them...(1). Further evidence of this distrust and cleavage, as well as of the differences in organization, was given in the Washingtonian Pocket Companion (19), published in Utica, N.Y., in 1842: Some societies make uniting with them, a virtual renunciation of all membership with any other temperance societies...This is because the principles of the old, and of our societies, differ so widely - and also to prevent the old societies from subverting ours... Some societies take none but those who have lately made, sold, or used intoxicating liquors - others receive all except children under a certain age - others receive even children with the consent of their parents or guardians. Some societies omit that part of the pledge which relates to the "Making and selling, directly or indirectly," and pledge to total abstinence from using, only. They think it a benefit to bring the maker and vender into the society first, and then induce them to give up their business. In some cases, the female members of our societies act as a Benevolent Society, within, or in co-operation and fellowship with us. In others, the ladies form separate and distinct societies. Their names are numerous...(19). Even though no uniformity of organization or procedure prevailed, yet a minimum of common pattern ran throughout the movement. This might be said to be (A) the reclamation of inebriates by "reformed drunkards" - employing the "principle of love" and the total abstinence pledge; and (B) having reformed drunkards telling their experiences for the dual purpose of reaching the drunkard and winning others to the total abstinence pledge. The Baltimore pattern, very effectively reproduced in Boston under the guidance of Hawkins, seemed to have been the ideal pattern which the majority of Washingtonian groups approximated in varying degrees. Since records of the Boston operations have been preserved, the organization and procedure of that society will be given in some detail. The aggressive missionary work of carrying Washingtonianism into 160 New England towns during the first 3 months of the Boston society's existence has been noted. Of even greater interest are the details of the work with alcoholics, during this same period, as related by Samuel F. Holbrook, the first president of the society: The Washington Total Abstinence Society was organized on the 25th of April, 1841. On the evening of its formation the officers elected were a president, two vice-presidents, a corresponding secretary, and a treasurer; after which there were chosen twenty-four gentlemen to serve as ward committee, whose duty it was to pick up inebriates, induce them to sign the pledge of total abstinence, and forsake all places where intoxicating drink was to be had, and also to visit the families of the reformed and administer to their wants. It now became necessary to have a place exclusively our own, where we could bring the unfortunate victim of intemperance, nurse him, and converse with him, and obtain his signature to the pledge;...[We] were led to Marlboro Chapel. We obtained Hall No. 1 for a business and occasional lecture room, and the chapel for a public meeting once a week. Hall No. 1 was furnished with newspapers from various towns, as well as nearly all the publications of our own city. A table prepared, and the seats were arranged in the form of a reading room; a fountain of cold water and a desk containing the pledge occupied another part of the room. Our pledge, for the first week, had two hundred and eighteen names; and then, as if by magic, the work commenced. And I think it is doubtful if in the annals of history there is any record of a work of such a nature and progressing with so much silence, and yet so sure in its advance. Surely it is the work of the omnipotent God... The gentlemen acting as ward committees were filled with unexampled zeal and perseverance in the performance of their duties; leaving their own business in order to hunt up the drunkard;...So attentive were they to this voluntary duty that in a fortnight we had four hundred names on our pledge; families in all directions were assisted, children sent to school decently clad, employment obtained for the husband, the countenance of the wife assumed a cheerful and pleasing aspect; landlords grew easy, and in fact everything relating to the circumstances of the reformed inebriate had undergone a complete change for the better... The reeling drunkard is met in the street, or drawn out from some old filthy shed, taken by the arm, spoken kindly to, invited to the hall, and with reluctance dragged there, or carried in a carriage if not too filthy; and there he sees himself surrounded by friends, and not what he most feared - police officers; everyone takes him by the hand; he begins to come to and when sober sign the pledge, and goes away a reformed man. And it does not end there. The man takes a pledge, and from his bottle companions obtains a number of signers, who likewise become sober men. Positively, these are facts. Now, can any human agency alone do this? All will answer No; for we have invariably the testimony of vast numbers of reformed men, who have spoken in public and declared they have broken off a number of times, but have as often relapsed again: and the reason they give for doing this is that they rely wholly on the strength of their resolution without looking any higher; but now they feel the need of God's assistance, which having obtained, their reform is genuine...(8). Holbrook also made some interesting comparisons with the attitudes and methods of the older temperance societies: ...As for reclaiming the drunkard, that was entirely out of the question; they must and will die shortly, and now our business is to take care of the rising generation. And when the hard working women complained of her drunken husband, the reply was, and from all feeling of good, to, O send him to the house of correction, or poor house, immediately, and then we will do what we can for you and your children. Now the great difficulty was that our temperance friends were, generally, men in higher circles of life, who would revolt at the idea of taking a drunkard by the arm in the street and walk with him to some place where he could be made sober and receive friendly advice. If the drunken man was noticed at all, he was taken aside from under the horses' feet, and perhaps put into some house and there left...But the method of reclaiming the apparently lost inebriate, such as the Washington Total Abstinence Society has adopted, never entered their heads; it was not thought of until our society was formed. Then some twenty or thirty drunkards came forward and signed the total abstinence pledge and related their experience, and this induced others to do the same; and then the work of reform commenced in good earnest(8). The "Auditor's Report" contains additional information on the activities of the Boston society during its first 3 months. After reporting the receipt of $2,537.10, one barrel of pork, four hams, and a considerable quantity of second-hand clothing, he referred to the system they had adopted "of boarding out single persons and assisting the inebriate and his family who had homes." In addition to not less than one hundred and fifty persons boarded out [in "three good boarding-houses, kept by discreet members of the society"], two hundred and fifty families have been more or less benefited. Families the most wretched have been made comfortable; by our exertions many families that were scattered have been reunited; fathers, sons, and brothers have been taken from the houses of correction and industry, from the dram shops, and from the lowest places of degradation, restored and brought back again under the same roof, made happy, industrious, and temperate...Our society at present numbers about 4,000 members...[about] one third...heads of families...(8). Harrisson rounds out the first 2 years' history of the Boston society: For the space of two years after its organization the meetings of the society were held in Marlboro' Chappel, while the lodging rooms connected therewith were located in Graphic Court, opposite Franklin Street. From there they removed to No. 75 Court Street...They also fitted up rooms under their hall for the temporary accommodations of reformed, or rather, reforming men. They soon again removed to rooms which they procured and fitted up in Broomfield Street... During the first two years of its existence the officers and members of the society held weekly meetings in six different localities in the city of Boston, namely: in North Bennett Street, Milton Street, Washington Place, East Street, Common Street, and Hull Street...(8). Another glimpse of the activities of this society, 4 years after its founding, is provided in a memorial petition presented to the State Legislature in 1845: ....From the period of its formation to the present time, it has sustained a commodious hall for holding public meetings...Large numbers of persons, in various stages of intoxication and destitution, who have been found in the streets and elsewhere, have been led to the Washingtonian Hall, where they have been kindly received, and their necessary wants supplied. The amount of service which has been rendered within the last four years, by this society, cannot be readily appreciated. A multitude of men who, by intemperance, had been shut out from the friendly regard of the world, found in the hall of the Washingtonians, for the time being, a comfortable asylum; and these men departed thence to resume their position as useful citizens. About 750 such persons have found a temporary home at Washingtonian Hall, during the year just closed, nearly all of whom, it is believed, are now temperate and industrious members of society(8). 4 As already noted, this society reported having received 56,380 members up to January 1848. According to Harrisson, the central meetings were held each week uninterrupted at least to 1860. Whether an "Asylum" for inebriates was maintained during the intervening years, the writer cannot ascertain. But in 1858 a "home for the Fallen," representing perhaps a renewal of activities, was being maintained on Franklin Place. It was moved to 36 Charles Street in 1860 and renamed the "Washington Home." Conducted by a separate "executive committee," it nevertheless was operating on Washingtonian principles. So much for the Boston society. Apparently Hawkins and his associates had laid a more sound foundation than was achieved in many communities. As for organization and procedures elsewhere, perhaps the best clues are given in the 1842 Washingtonian Pocket Companion (19), "Containing a Choice Collection of Temperance Hymns, Songs, Etc.," - containing also the following directions "For Commencing, Organizing, and Conducting the Meetings, of a Washingtonian Total Abstinence Society." I. The Commencement.- Wherever there are a sufficient number of drinkers, to get up what is commonly called "a spree," there are enough to form a Society. It only needs one or more individuals, (If an inebriate, or moderate drinker, but resolved to reform, all the better,) to go to those persons, and to others who make, sell or use intoxicating drinks and explain to them the principles and measures of this great reform, and persuade them to agree to take the pledge at a meeting to be held at some convenient time and place mutually agreed on. In all these efforts, the utmost gentleness, and kindness, and patient perseverance, and warm persuasion, should be used. At the meetings, appoint a Chairman and a Secretary - if reformed inebriates, all the better. After singing a hymn or song, let the Chairman, or other person, open the meeting by stating its objectives - relating his experience in drinking, his past feelings, sufferings, the woe of his family and friends, the motives and reasons that induce him to take the present step, and appeal warmly and kindly to his companions, friends and neighbours to aid him in it by doing likewise. The Secretary, or other person may follow with a like experience...Other persons can be called on to speak, until it is time to get signers to the pledge. Having read the pledge...invite all who wish to join to rise up, (or come forward,) and call out their names that the Secretary may take them down. Publicity and freedom are preferable to private solicitations, whisperings, and secrecy in giving the names...Then let the Chairman or other person, first pledge himself, and then administer it to the rest. After this, a hymn or song may be sung, and remarks and appeals be made, and other names be obtained. After all have been obtained to take the pledge, let them again rise up, and let the Chairman, or Secretary, or other person, give them THE CHARGE - a solemn address on the nature and importance of the obligations they have assumed and on the best mode of faithfully discharging them. Then let a committee be appointed to draft a Constitution to be presented at the next meeting. II. THE ORGANIZATION. - At the next meeting, after singing, let the Constitution be reported, and amended, if necessary, until it suits those who have taken the pledge at and since the last meeting. Then adopt it. It should contain the following, among the needed provisions. Preamble - A simple statement of the prominent evils of intemperance, and of the resolution of the signers to aid in extirpating their root. Some prefer a Parody on our National Declaration of Independence for this purpose. Article 1 - The name of the Society, always using the distinctive title, "Washingtonian," in that name. Article 2 - Declaring that love, Kindness and moral suasion are your only principles and measures, and disavowing denunciation, abuse, and harshness. Article 3 - Forbid the introduction of sectarian sentiments or party politics into any lecture, speeches, singing, or doings of the society. Article 4 - Providing for offices, committees, and their election. Articles 5,6, and 7 - Duties of officers and committees. (One of these should be a committee to relieve the poor, sick and afflicted members and families of inebriates.) Article 8 - Provide for by-laws, and alterations of the Constitution. Article 9 - Provide for labours with those who violate their pledges, and the withdrawal of members... III. HOW to CONDUCT the MEETINGS. - After the meeting has come to order, always open with a hymn or song. Transact the business of the society with the utmost order and dispatch....Then call for speakers. Let there be as many "experiences" as possible, interspersed with brief arguments, appeals, exhortations, news of the progress of the cause, temperance anecdotes, &c. Consult brevity, so as to have as many of the brethren speak, as possible - the more the better....And always be sure to call for persons to take the pledge, when the audience feel in the right spirit. While the pledges are being filled up for delivery, pour out the warmest appeals, or sing the most interesting hymns or songs. If any member or other person violates the rules or order, or transgresses the principles and measures of the society, remind him of it in good humour, gently and kindly...KINDNESS must be the very atmosphere of your meetings, and LOVE the fuel of all your zeal, and PERSUASION the force of all your speaking, if you would have your society do the most good...(19). Even more revealing is the definition, contained in the same Pocket Companion, of the principles of the Washingtonian movement in terms of its differences from the older societies. I. All the former Societies directed their efforts mainly, if not wholly to the prevention of intemperance. "Washingtonianism," while it embraces all classes, sexes, ages and conditions of society in its efforts, makes special efforts to snatch the poor inebriate from his destructive habits - aims to cure as well as prevent intemperance. It considers the drunkard as a man - our brother - capable of being touched by kindness, of appreciating our love, and benefiting by our labours. We therefore, stoop down to him in his fallen condition and kindly raise him up, and whisper hope and encouragement into his ear, and aid him to aid himself back again to health, peace, usefulness, respectability and prosperity. By the agency of SISTERS in this labour, we endeavour to secure the co-operation of his family in our effort... II. Other societies, generally were auxiliary to a Country - that to a State - and that to a National Society... "Washingtonianism"...[makes] each society independent... III. Before the Washingtonian Reform, not only the poor drunkard, but many of nearly every other class in society supposed to be in the way of the [temperance] cause, were denounced as enemies - held up to public indignation and reprobation, threatened with the withdrawal of votes, pecuniary support, or public countenance;... "Washingtonianism" teaches us to avoid this course...We believe with the American Prison Discipline Society, that "there is a chord, even in the most corrupt heart, that vibrates to kindness, and a sense of justice, which knows when it has been rightly dealt with." We have tried kindness with the poor inebriate of many years continuance - we have found it powerful to overcome the induration of heart caused by eight years of the world's contempt...Hence we adopt the law of kindness - the godlike principle, "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good," in our labours to win the maker, seller and user of intoxicating liquors; and we disavow all compulsions, threats, denunciations, hard names,...or malice or ill-will toward them...In short, "Moral suasion, not force - love not hate, are the moving springs in the Washingtonian Creed" (19). The hymns and songs contained in this Pocket Companion are likewise revealing. Most of them are simply adapted Christian hymns and temperance songs, appealing basically to religious and patriotic sentiments. In the preface it is frankly stated that only such hymns and songs have been included which introduce no "sectarianism, party politics, denunciation or harshness," or which contain no "phrases and sentiments which all Christians could not conscientiously sing." The central emphasis is probably contained in the following hymn on the "Power of Love." Love is the strongest tie Love softens all our toil, That can our hearts unite; And makes our labours blest; Love brings to life and liberty It lights again the joyful smile, The drunkard chained in night And gives the anguished rest. Obeying its commands, Let love forever grow, We quickly supply each need; Intemp'rance drive afar, With feeling hearts and tender hands A heaven begin on earth below Bind up his wounds that bleed. And banish strife and war. The principle of love and sympathy for the drunkard is, in countless references, considered to be the distinctively new feature introduced by the Washingtonians - and their central principle. John B. Gough attributed the success of the movement to "the true spirit of Washingtonian sympathy, kindness and charity...predominant in the bosom of this great Washingtonian Fraternity"(11). Walter Channing, Unitarian Clergyman, in underscoring this principle, also calls attention to the other distinctive feature of the Washingtonian movement - the role played by the "reformed drunkards" themselves: It was wholly new, both in its principles and its agents. It laid aside law and punishment, and made love, the new commandment, its own. It dared to look upon moral power as sufficient for the work of human regeneration - the living moral power in the drunkard, however degraded he might be. It had faith in man...[and so] the drunkard became a moral teacher... he rose from the lowest depths of degradation, and became an apostle of the highest sentiment in his nature; viz., the love of man, the acknowledgment of the inborn dignity of man (9). THE CAUSES OF DECLINE The materials presented above would scarcely give the impression that the major cause of the decline of the Washingtonian movement was its lack, and opposition to, religion. Yet that charge gained currency and has been perpetuated in later temperance writings. For example, Daniels, in 1877, wrote that "...this effort to divorce temperance from religion was the chief weakness of the Washingtonian movement(20)." Actually, the charge seems to be based upon the generalization and misinterpretation of certain real difficulties that did develop, in places, between the Washingtonians and the churches - and upon the views of a few extremists. A major source of information about the Washingtonian movement available to later historians were the publications of the American Temperance Movement, edited by John Marsh. In 1842 Marsh did become concerned about the attitudes of some of the Washingtonians: "A lack of readiness on their part to acknowledge their dependence on God, no small desecration of the Sabbath, and a painful unwillingness, in not a few professed Christians, to connect the temperance cause...with religion(13)." It must be recalled that Marsh was the earliest and most ardent promoter of the Washington movement. He had a genuine interest in the reformation of drunkards, but his greatest interest was the promotion of the temperance cause. Above all, Marsh wanted to establish the identification of temperance with religion and to obtain the support of all church members. When the behaviour of some of the Washingtonians threatened to antagonize some of the church people against the temperance cause, Marsh did his best in his writings to counteract the threatening trends in the Washingtonian movement. Later historians seemed to overlook the fact that Marsh was addressing himself to minority manifestations - and that Marsh succeeded to a considerable extent in countering these trends. When, in the summer of 1844, Marsh sponsored and accompanied John B. Gough on a tour through New York State, he was pleased with the fact that Gough was able to speak in many churches - "even upperclass churches." On this improved rapport with the churches, Marsh commented: The open infidelity, and radicalism, and abuse of ministers, by some reform-speakers had kindled up in many minds an opposition to all temperance effort, especially on the Sabbath; but Mr. Gough took such decided ground on religion, as the basis of all temperance, and the great security and hope of the reformed, as entirely reconciled them, not only to the meetings, but to his occupying the pulpit on the Sabbath (13). The causes and coolness and even hostility between some of the Washingtonians and some of the churches lay on both sides. For one thing, many Washingtonians felt that their movement represented a purer form of Christianity than was to be found in the churches. In fact, their chief criticism of churches was on this score and did not stem out of antireligious beliefs. They felt that they were living the principles which the churches talked about. This was expressed, for example, in the following hymn stanza: When Jesus, our Redeemer, came To teach us in his Father's name, In every act, in every thought He lived the precepts which he taught (19). Washingtonians, furthermore, we often critical of the unhealthy other - worldliness prevalent in many churches: This world's not all a fleeting show, For a man's illusion given; He that hath sooth'd a drunkard's woe, And led him to reform, doth know, There's something here of heaven. The Washingtonian that hath run The path of kindness even; Who's measr'd out life's little span, In deeds of love to God and man, On earth has tasted heaven (19). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5542. . . . . . . . . . . . Part 3 of 3: Maxwell on the Washingtonians From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/24/2009 12:41:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: James Blair (jblair at videotron.ca) Part 3 of 3: Milton A. Maxwell, "The Washingtonian Movement" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A number of factors led some of the churches to close their doors to the Washingtonians. Class snobbishness was one of these - a fact which particularly riled the lower class Washingtonians in those communities. Dacus (21) points out that the vanity of some of the ministers may have led them to disdain the movement, since they were neither its originators nor its leaders. Dacus certainly is right that many of the ministers of that day held narrow views that made them unsympathetic to Washingtonian principles. The most striking example of this is the argument of the Rev. Hiram Mattison, Minister of the Methodist Episcopal Church of Watertown, N.Y. as stated in a tract published in 1844: FIRST - No Christian is at liberty to select or adopt any general system, organization, agencies or means, for the moral reformation of mankind, except those prescribed and recognized by Jesus Christ. But, SECONDLY - Christ has designated his Church as his chosen organization; his Ministers as his chosen ambassadors or public teachers; and his Gospel as the system of truth and motives by which to reform mankind, Nor has he prescribed any other means. Therefore, THIRDLY - All voluntary organizations and societies, for the suppression of particular vices, and the promotion of particular virtues, being invented by a man without a divine model or command, and proceeding upon principles and employing agencies, means and motives nor recognized in the Gospel, are incompatible with the plan ordained of Heaven, and consequently superfluous, inexpedient and dangerous (14). Mr. Mattison's views, however, were not shared by many of the clergymen; nor were the majority of the churches at odds with the Washingtonians. Almost all "General Conventions of the Protestant Churches endorsed and encouraged the movement (14)." The writer agrees with Eddy (14) that, except for the attitudes of a few extremists, "Washingtonianism was not an irreligious movement." The reasons for its decline must lie elsewhere. The lack of adequate organization is another frequently cited cause of the decline of the movement. As Krout points out, there was no connection between the various groups that carried on the work. "Each group was allowed to follow its own course....As a result, systematic organization was impossible; uniformity in methods was never attained; and chance largely determined the formulation of principles (1)." The lack of organization was first felt, however, with regard to the needs of the newly reformed men for more social and economic support. This need was adequately met by the original Baltimore society. Certainly the Boston society was well organized to help the impoverished, to get them back on their feet, and to give them adequate social support, and this seems also to have been the case in Philadelphia and other places. But in some communities, notably in New York City, "It was felt that these men who had been so under the power of the drinking habit needed more care and fraternal fellowship than could be given by so formal a society as the Washingtonians (10)." This led to the founding, on a plan similar to that of the Rechabites in Great Britain, of the "Order of the Sons of Temperance." Actually this order was founded by a group of Washingtonians in New York City during the fall of 1842. They had noticed that although the Washingtonian movement was making rapid advance in new fields, there were already many falling away from the pledge, and they desired if possible, to hit upon some new plan of operations, some more perfect organization, one that should shield the members from temptation, and more effectually elevate and guide them....(17). It soon manifested an esprit du corps, which gathered into it a large portion of their reformed; inasmuch as, on paying a small weekly or quarterly due, they were sure of a useful remittance in case of sickness [$4.00 a week] or death [$30.00]. An impressive indication gave the order impressiveness, brotherhood, and attachment; and a regalia, a distinction from other temperance men. Soon divisions and grand divisions were found springing up in every quarter. Old temperance societies lost such of their members as were reformed men; and where there was a revival of temperance [where Washingtonianism took hold], young reformed converts were allured hither, often in large proportions....(13). The order of Sons of Temperance grew rapidly. By 1850 it had 35 Grand Divisions, 5,563 Subordinate Divisions (local societies), and 232,233 members. Eventually it became international, with a peak membership of 700,000. A later scribe of the order said that it had been brought into existence "to preserve the fruits of the Washingtonian movement." But one of its functional results was the displacement of the Washingtonian societies. This displacement of loyalties and membership was furthered by other orders. In 1845 the "Temple of Honor" was founded as a higher degree in the Order of the Sons of Temperance. Separating from its parent body in 1846, it soon spread over the United States and Canada, numbering "in its ranks thousands upon thousands of the best and most influential citizens...(8)." "The cadets of Temperance" was another order which sprang from the Sons of Temperance. Designed for youth, it also became independent. There was an order for children, the "Bands of Hope." In 1852 the largest fraternal temperance order of all, the "Independent Order of Good Templars," was founded, with a prominent Washingtonian, Nathaniel Curtis, as its first President. These orders, taking over most of the functions of the Washingtonian movement and incorporating much of the membership under another name, may be considered, from the sociological point of view, an institutional consolidation of Washingtonianism. But they also account, to a considerable extent, for the disappearance of the Washingtonian societies. The chief causes of the decline of the Washingtonian movement are to be found, however, in its relation to the general temperance movement. Its membership, its purposes, and its ideology were inextricably mixed with the membership, purposes and ideology of the temperance movement. Even the Baltimore society did not confine its membership to the reclaimed victims of alcoholism - nor did it lack an interest in the temperance movement. And, outside of Baltimore, these early "Washingtonian missionaries" were invariably sponsored by temperance organizations. When the power of the Washingtonian approach to reclaimed drunkards was demonstrated - and when it was shown that the reclaimed drunkards' experiences had the power to arouse great interest in the cause of total abstinence, the temperance leaders threw themselves behind the movement. Here was the answer to their prayers - something that would revitalize the temperance movement. The American Temperance Union and its executive secretary, John Marsh, in introducing and promoting the Washingtonians, may indeed be given "much credit for the success of the Washingtonians (12)." But in the last analysis, Marsh and others looked upon Washingtonianism as a method, and Washingtonians as the means, for "sparking" the temperance cause. That was their chief function. And it appears that this eventually became the chief interest of Washingtonian leaders themselves. Hawkins kept up the original Washingtonian emphasis of work with alcoholics for a long time, but during the last dozen years of his life (1846-58) most of his interest was centred in the larger temperance cause. John B. Gough made a similar shift in emphasis. Accordingly, then, when public interest in the distinctive Washingtonian technique of experience-relating began to wane, the interest of Marsh and other temperance leaders in Washingtonianism also declined. Lyman Beecher put it bluntly: "...their thunder is worn out. The novelty of the commonplace narrative is used up, and we cannot raise an interest..."(13). Marsh himself, from the perspective of later years, spoke of the Washingtonian period as a phase of the temperance movement, giving way to other methods. Since Washingtonianism was identified with the relating of experiences by reformed men, the displacement of this method was, to that extent, a displacement of Washingtonianism itself. Another fact which made temperance leaders lose interest in the Washingtonian movement was its identification with the "moral suasion" point of view. The temperance movement, up to the emergence of Washingtonianism, was not characterized by advocacy of legal action to attain its ends. Some of the leaders, however, had begun to voice the desirability of such action; the issue was in the air. The success of the Washingtonian method of love and kindness in dealing with alcoholics convinced many Washingtonians and others that this was also the method to use with the makers and sellers of liquor. William K. Mitchell, leader of the Baltimore group but also influential throughout the country, was particularly insistent that Washingtonians ...should have nothing to say against the traffic or the men engaged in it. He would have no pledge even, against engaging in the manufacture or traffic in liquors; nor did he counsel reformed men to avoid liquor-sellers' society or places of business. He would even admit men to membership in his societies who were engaged in the traffic (14). Many of the Baltimore missionaries must have felt the same way and must have advocated this idea wherever they went. Just as Washingtonian experience "proved" the soundness of total abstinence, so Washingtonian experience "proved" the validity of moral suasion. It was as simple as that, in the minds of many, and was so expressed in a resolution presented at the Massachusetts State Washingtonian Convention on May 26, 1842: RESOLVED, That the unparalleled success of the Washingtonian movement in reforming the drunkard, and inducing the retailer to cease his unholy traffic, affords conclusive evidence that moral suasion is the only true and proper basis of action in the temperance cause....(9). Even at that date, Hawkins and a few others objected and had the resolution modified on the grounds that moral suasion was an inadequate technique for the dealing with "unprincipled dealers," and that the aid of the law was necessary. Hawkins' view, however, was not shared by most Washingtonians. Marsh once referred to Hawkins thus: "Though a Washingtonian, he was a strong prohibitionist (13)." John B. Gough, because of his later advocacy of prohibitory legislation, was accused of not being a Washingtonian. When the general temperance sentiment began to favour legal action, Washingtonian policy was dated and opposed. For a time, many temperance leaders hardly knew whether to regard the Washingtonians as friends or enemies. Senator Henry William Blair of New Hampshire, in 1888, referred back to this emphasis of the Washingtonians on moral suasion as "a trace of maudlin insanity," - because of which the temperance movement was left in a state worse than before, and as a consequence of which "we have ever since been combating the absurd theory, which is the favourite fortress of the liquor dealers, that evil is increased because it is prohibited by law (22)." When the relating of experiences began to pall, and when moral suasion was no longer desired, there was nothing left to Washingtonia nism, ideologically, except the reclaiming of drunkards. This, however, became an increasingly secondary interest of those whose primary interest was the furtherance of the temperance cause - and, without the telling of experiences, without the work of alcoholics with alcoholics, and without certain other emotional by-products of Washingtonian groups and activities, this became an increasingly difficult thing to do. And, as fewer and fewer men were reclaimed, the last distinctive feature of the Washingtonian movement dropped out of sight. A review of various accounts of the Washingtonian movement makes it clear that the movement turned into something which it did not start out to be - a revival phase of the organized temperance movement. There are frequent references to the movement as "a pledging revival," "a revival campaign," "a temperance revival." The net result was a tremendous strengthening of total abstinence sentiment and the actual enlistment of new millions in the temperance cause. But the original purpose of rehabilitating alcoholics was lost to sight. Nor would it be proper to blame the temperance movement for exploiting the Washingtonians. As E.M. Jellinek5 has pointed out, the Washingtonian movement was not equipped with an ideology distinctive enough to prevent its dissolution.5 Personal communication. With this background, it becomes possible to make a comparison between the Washingtonian movement and Alcoholics Anonymous. COMPARISON WITH ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS It is apparent that the Washingtonian societies, when they were most effective in the rehabilitation of alcoholics, had a great many similarities to Alcoholics Anonymous. These similarities might be listed as follows: 1. Alcoholics helping each other. 2. The needs and interests of alcoholics kept central, despite mixed membership, by predominance of numbers, control,or the enthusiasm of the movement. 3. Weekly meetings. 4. The sharing of experiences. 5. The fellowship of the group or its members constantly available. 6. A reliance upon the power of God. 7. Total abstinence from alcohol. Most Washingtonian groups probably failed to meet this ideal program, or to maintain it for long. Even in itemizing the ideal program, some of the differences between the Washingtonian groups and Alcoholics Anonymous stand out. The admission of nonalcoholics as members and the incorporation of the "temperance" purpose - the inducement of total abstinence in nonalcoholics - are the most striking differences. Furthermore, at their best, the Washingtonian groups possessed no understanding of alcoholism other than the possibility of recovery through love and sympathy. Their approach to the problem of alcoholism and alcohol was moralistic rather than psychological or therapeutic. They possessed no program for personality change. The group had no resource of ideas to help them rise above the ideational content locally possessed. Except for their program of mutual aid they had no pattern of organization or activity different from existing patterns. There was far too great a reliance upon the pledge, and not enough appreciation of other elements in their program. Work with other alcoholics was not required, nor was the therapeutic value of this work explicitly recognized. There was no anonymity to keep the public from becoming aware of broken pledges, or to keep individuals from exploiting the movement for prestige and fame. Finally, there was not enough understanding of their own therapeutic program to formulate it and thus help the new groups to establish themselves on a sound and somewhat uniform basis. The differences can be brought out more clearly by a more detailed, comparative analysis of the Alcoholics Anonymous program - its principles, practices and content. 1. Exclusively alcoholic membership.- There are many therapeutic values in the cohesiveness and solidarity which a group with a common problem can achieve. But in the light of the Washingtonian experience, the greatest long-run value of an exclusively alcoholic membership is that it permits and reinforces exclusive attention to the rehabilitation of alcoholics. 2. Singleness of purpose.- As stated in the masthead of an organizational publication (23), Alcoholics Anonymous "is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety." Nothing can divide groups more quickly - and certainly destroy the therapeutic atmosphere effectively - than religious and political controversy. Strong efforts were made in the Washingtonian movement to minimize sectarian, theological and political differences, but the movement did not avoid attracting to itself the hostile emotions generated by these conflicts. Even if it had been more successful in this regard, it was still caught in all the controversy to which the temperance cause had become liable. Not only that, but within the temperance movement itself it eventually became stranded on the issue of moral suasion versus legal action. In the light of this experience, the position of Alcoholics Anonymous stands in decided and hopeful contrast. In refusing to endorse or oppose causes, and particularly the temperance cause, A.A. is avoiding the greatest handicap which the Washingtonian movement had. Some temperance leaders may deplore that A.A. does not give them support, but they have no grounds for complaining that they are being opposed or hampered by A.A. The A.A. program also contains a happy formula for avoiding the religious or theological controversies which could easily develop even within the groups as presently constituted. This is the use of the term "Power" (greater or higher), and particularly the phrase "as we understood Him," in referring to this Power, or God. The tolerance which this phrase has supported is an invaluable asset. A further value of this single-minded concentration on the rehabilitation of alcoholics is made obvious by the Washingtonian experience. Whenever, and as long as, the Washingtonians were working hard at the reclamation of drunkards, they had notable success and the movement thrived and grew. This would support the idea that active outreach to other alcoholics is a factor in therapeutic success and, at the same time, a necessary condition for growth - and even for survival. Entirely aside from the matter of controversy, then, this singleness of A.A. purpose is a condition of continued therapeutic success and survival. 3. An adequate, clear-cut program of recovery.- Another great asset of Alcoholics Anonymous is the ideology which forms the content and context of its program of recovery, and which has received clear and attractive expression in the book Alcoholics Anonymous (24) and in other A.A. literature.This ideology incorporates the much sounder understanding of alcoholism which has been developed in recent years. It is a pragmatic blend of that which scientific research, dynamic psychology and mature religion have to offer; and through the literature of the movement, the members are kept sympathetically oriented to the developments in these fields. Accordingly, instead of viewing alcoholism with a moralistic eye on alcohol - as an evil which ought to be abandoned - A.A. sees alcoholism as an illness, symptomatic of a personality disorder. Its program is designed to get at the basic problem, that is, to bring about a change in personality. This program is simply and clearly stated in the Twelve Steps - augmented by the "24 hour program" of abstaining from alcohol, and the supporting slogans and emphases such as "First things first," "Live and let live," "Easy does it," "Keep an open mind," honesty, humility, and so forth. Great stress is also put upon regular attendance at the group meetings, which are characterized by the informal exchange of experiences and ideas and by a genuinely satisfying fellowship. Compared to the Washingtonian brand, the A.A. sharing of experiences is notably enriched by the psychological insights which have been brought into the group by A.A. literature and outside speakers. A thorough analysis and catharsis is specifically asked for in the Twelve Steps - as well as an improvement in relations to other persons. Work with other alcoholics is required, and the therapeutic value accruing to the sponsor of new members is distinctly recognized. The spiritual part of the program is more clearly and inclusively defined, more soundly based, and more frankly made an indispensable condition of recovery. It appears, furthermore, that the A.A. group activity is more satisfactory to the alcoholic than was the case in many Washingtonian societies. A.A. members seem to find all the satisfaction and values in their groups that the founders of the various orders thought were lacking in the Washingtonian groups. A decided Washingtonian weakness was its general lack of follow-through. In contrast, A.A. is particularly strong on this point, providing a potent follow-through in a group setting where self-analysis and catharsis are stimulated; where new attitudes toward alcohol, self and others are learned; where the feeling tones are modified through a new quality of relationships; where, in short, a new way of life is acquired - one which not only enables the person to interact with his environment (particularly with other persons) without the use of alcohol, but enables him to do so on a more mature, satisfying basis. No doubt a similar change occurred in many (though probably not in most) of the alcoholic Washingtonians, but it was more by a coincidence, within and without the societies, of circumstances that were rarely understood and never formulated into a definite, repeatable program. A.A. is infinitely better equipped in this respect. 4. Anonymity.- A comparison with the Washingtonian experience underscores the sheer survival value of the principle of anonymity in Alcoholics Anonymous. At the height of his popularity, John B. Gough either "slipped" or was tricked by his enemies into a drunken relapse. At any rate, the opponents of the Washingtonian movement seized upon this lapse with glee and made the most of it to hurt Gough and the movement. This must have happened frequently to less widely known but nevertheless publicly known Washingtonians. Public confidence in the movement was impaired. Anonymity protects the reputation of A.A. from public criticism not only of "slips" but also of failures, internal tensions, and all deviant behaviour. Equally important, anonymity keeps the groups from exploiting prominent names for the sake of group prestige; and it keeps individual members from exploiting their A.A. connection for personal prestige or fame. This encourages humility and the placing of principles above personalities. Such behaviour not only generates outside admiration of A.A. but has therapeutic value for the individual members. There are further therapeutic values in anonymity: it makes it easier for alcoholics to approach A.A., and it relaxes the new member. It encourages honest catharsis and utter frankness. It protects the new member from the critical eyes of certain acquaintances while he experiments with this new way of life, for fumbling and failure will be hidden. 5. Hazard-avoiding traditions.- Another decisive contrast to the Washingtonian movement is the development in Alcoholics Anonymous not only of a relatively uniform program of recovery but also of relatively uniform traditions for avoiding the usual hazards to which organizations are subject. In Alcoholics Anonymous there is actually no overhead authority. Wherever two or three alcoholics get together to attain sobriety on the general basis of the Twelve Step program they may call themselves an A.A. group. They are free to conduct their activities as they see fit. As would be expected in a fellowship of independent groups, all kinds of practices and policies have been tried. A careful reading of the A.A. publication, A.A. Tradition (25), will reveal how great the variety has been, here and there. Membership has been limited. Conduct of groups has been undemocratic. Leaders have exploited the groups for personal prestige. The principle of anonymity has been violated. Personal and jurisdictional rivalries have developed. Money, property and organizational difficulties have disrupted A.A. groups. Members and groups, yielding to their own enthusiasms and reflecting the patterns of other institutions around them, have endangered the immediate and ultimate welfare of the A.A. fellowship. These deviations could have been serious had there not existed a considerable uniformity in practice and principle. In the early days of A.A., the entire fellowship was bound together by a chain of personal relationships - all created on the basis of a common program, a common spirit and a common tradition. This spirit and this pragmatically achieved program and tradition were the only guiding principles, and relative uniformity was not difficult. Alcoholics Anonymous was just a fellowship - small, informal, poor and unpretentious. But with growth, prosperity and prestige, the difficulties of getting all groups and members to see the value of these guiding principles increased. A self-conscious statement and explanation was needed - and this finally emerged in 1947 and 1948 in the "Twelve Points of Tradition,"elaborated upon in editorials in The A.A. Grapevine (23) and subsequently published as a booklet (25). In formulating and stating the reasons for these traditions, Bill W., one of the founders, has continued the extremely valuable function which he, Dr. Bob and other national leaders have performed - that of keeping intact the experienced based program and principles of A.A. Perhaps as important as any other is the tradition of keeping authority in principles rather than letting it become vested in offices and personalities. This tradition is supported by the related principle of rotating leadership, and the concept that leaders are merely the trusted servants of the group or groups. The hazard-avoiding values of these traditions are obvious. The tradition that membership be open to any alcoholic has value in countering the tendency toward exclusiveness, class-consciousness, cliquishness - and it helps to keep the groups focussed on their main job of helping the "alcoholic who still suffers." The tradition of complete self-support of A.A. groups and activities by the voluntary contributions of A.A. members avoids the dangers inherent in fixed dues, assessments, public solicitations, and the like - and it is conducive to self-reliance and self-respect. Furthermore, in minimizing money it maximizes fellowship. The tradition that "any considerable property of genuine use to A.A. should be separately incorporated and managed" is important in keeping the A.A. groups from becoming entangled in the problems of property beyond the minimum necessary for their own functioning. The tradition of "the least possible organization" has a similar value. These last three traditions might be summed up as precautions against the common tendency to forget that money, property and organization are only means - and that means find their rightful place only when the end is kept clearly in view. For A.A., these traditions should help to keep the groups concentrated on their prime purpose: helping alcoholics recover. The existence of these traditions - and their clear formulation - are assets which the Washingtonian movement never possessed. What prognosis for Alcoholics Anonymous is suggested by this comparison with the Washingtonian movement? The least that can be said is that the short life of the Washingtonian movement simply has no parallel implications for A.A. Despite certain but limited similarities in origins, purpose and early activities, the differences are too great to draw the conclusion of a similar fate for A.A. Are the differences, then, of such a nature as to assure a long life for Alcoholics Anonymous? This much can be said with assurance of consensus: (A) In the light of our present-day knowledge, A.A. has a sounder program of recovery than the Washingtonians achieved. (B) A.A. has avoided many of the organizational hazards which plagued the Washingtonian societies. The success and growth of A.A. during more than a decade of public life, its present vigour and its present unity underscore these statements and augur well for the future. In the writer's judgment, based on a systematic study (26) of A.A., there is no inherent reason why A.A. should not enjoy an indefinitely continued existence. How long an existence will depend upon how well the leaders and members continue to follow the present program and principles - that is, how actively A.A. members will continue to reach out to other alcoholics; how thoroughly the remainder of the A.A. program will continue to be practiced, particularly the steps dealing with catharsis and the spiritual aspects; and, how closely all groups will be guided by the present traditions. Finally, the writer would suggest that the value in the traditions lies chiefly in the avoidance of factors that can easily interfere with keeping the ideal therapeutic atmosphere found in the small A.A. groups at their best. Most of the personality change necessary for recovery from alcoholism occurs in these small groups - and that work is at its very best when there is a genuinely warm, nonegocentric fellowship. How well this quality of fellowship is maintained in the small, local groups is offered, therefore, as another condition determining how bright the future of A.A. will be. Whatever the worth of these judgments, they point up the potential value to A.A. of careful, objective research on these and related conditions. This would give Alcoholics Anonymous another asset that the Washingtonians never had. REFERENCES 1. Krout,J.A. The Origins of Prohibition. New York; Knopf, 1925. 2. Rush,Benjamin. An Inquiry Into the Effects of Ardent Spirits on the Human Body and Mind. [1785] 3. Beecher, Lyman. Six Sermons On the Nature, Occasion, Signs, Evils, and Remedy of Intemper- ance. New York. American Tract Society, 1827. 4. Fehlandt, A.F. A Century of Drink Reform in the United States. Cincinnati; Jennings and Graham; and New York, Eaton & Mains, 1904. 5. Permanent Temperance Documents of the American Temperance Society; Vol.1 Boston; Seth Bliss, 1835. 6. One Hundred Years of Temperance. A Memorial Volume of the Centennial Temperance Confer ence Held in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, September, 1885. New York; National Temperance Society & Publication House, 1886. 7. Annual Reports of the Executive Committee of the American Temperance Union, 1840-1849. 8. Harrison, D. A Voice from the Washingtonian Home. Boston; Redding & Co., 1860. 9. Hawkins, W.G. Life of John W. Hawkins. Boston, Dutton, 1863. 10. Banks, L.A. The Lincoln Legion. New York; Mershon Co., 1903. 11. Gough, J.B. Autobiography and Personal Recollections. Springfield, Mass.; Bill, Nichols & Co.,1869. 12. Wooley, J. G. and Johnson, W.E. Temperance Progress in the Century. London; Linscott Publish ing Co., 1903. 13. Marsh,J. Temperance Recollections. New York; Scribner, 1866. 14. Eddy,R. Alcohol and History. New York; National Temperance Society & Publication House, 1887. 15. Cherrington, E.H. The Evolution of Prohibition in the United States of America. Westerville, Ohio; American Issue Press, 1920. 16. Cyclopedia of Temperance and Prohibition. New York; Funk & Wagnalls, 1891. 17. Crothers, T.D. Inebriety. Cincinati; Harvey, 1911. 18. Sellers,J.B. The Prohibition Movement in Alabama, 1702-1943. Chapel Hill, Univ. North Carolina Press, 1943. 19. Grosh, A.B. ed. Washingtonian Pocket Companion. Utica, N.Y., S.S. Merrell; Bennett, Backus & Hawley; & G. Tracy, 1842. 20. Daniels, W.H. The Temperance Reform and Its Great Reformers. New York; Nelson & Phillips, 1878. 21. Dacus, J.A. Battling with the Demon. St. Louis; Scammel & Co., 1878. 22. Blair, H.W. The Temperance Movement. Boston; William E. Smythe Co., 1888. 23. The A.A. Grapevine. New York; A.A. Grapevine, Inc. 24. Alcoholics Anonymous. New York; Works Publishing Co., 1939. 25. A.A. Tradition. New York; Works Publishing Co., 1947. 26. Maxwell, M.A. Social Factors in the Alcoholics Anonymous Program. Doctoral Dissertation, U. of Texas, 1949. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5543. . . . . . . . . . . . History of Royalties - Part 1 From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2009 10:51:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Source references for the postings are: .. [AACOA-AA Comes of Age] -- [BW-FH-Bill W by Francis Hartigan] -- [DBGO-Dr Bob and the Good Old-timers] -- [GB-Getting Better Inside Alcoholics Anonymous by Nan R] -- [GTBT-Grateful to Have Been There by Nell Wing] -- [GSC-FR-General Service Conference-Final Report (identified by year)] -- [GSO-General Service Office-service pieces] -- [GSO-AC-General Service Office Archives Collection] -- [Gv-Grapevine-identified by month and year] -- [HIW-How It Worked by Mitchell K] -- [LOH-The Language of the Heart] -- [LR-Lois Remembers, by Lois W] -- [PIO-Pass It On, AAWS] -- SM-AA Service Manual and Twelve Concepts for World Service] -- [www-Internet] .. 1938 - September, board Trustee Frank Amos arranged a meeting between Bill W and Eugene Exman (Religious Editor of Harper Brothers publishers). Exman offered Bill a $1,500 advance ($23,000) on the rights to the book. The Alcoholic Foundation Board urged acceptance of the offer. Instead, Hank P and Bill formed Works Publishing Co. and sold stock at $25 par value ($380 today). 600 shares were issued: Hank and Bill received 200 shares each, 200 shares were sold to others. Later, 30 shares of preferred stock, at $100 par value ($1,500 today) were sold as well. To mollify the board, it was decided that the author's royalty (which would ordinarily be Bill's) could go to the Alcoholic Foundation. The newly formed Works Publishing Co would later come to be known as AA World Services or AAWS. (LR 197, BW-FH 116-119, SM S6, PIO 193-195, AACOA 157, 188, HIW 99-104) .. 1940 - May 22, Works Publishing Co. was legally incorporated as a publishing arm of the Alcoholic Foundation. Bill W and Hank P gave up their stock with a stipulation that Dr Bob and Anne receive 10% royalties on the Big Book for life. Hank was persuaded to relinquish his shares in exchange for a $200 payment ($3,000 today) for office furniture he claimed belonged to him. (AACOA 189-190, LR 199, BW-FH 119, SM 11, PIO 235-236, GTBT 92, GSO-AC) .. 1941 - With the possibility of being recalled to active duty in the Army, Bill W requested that he be granted a royalty on book sales to provide financial support for his wife Lois. The board approved a 10% royalty. Prior to this, Dr Bob was voluntarily giving Bill half the 10% royalty that he and Anne were receiving. Bill W's 10% royalty became his sole source of income. One exception to this occurred sometime in the mid-1940s when Bill's income averaged $1,700 ($24,600 today) over seven years. The board made a grant to Bill of $1,500 ($21,700 today) for each of the seven years for a total of $10,500 ($152,000 today) out of which Bill purchased his Bedford Hills house. (1951 GSC-FR 13) .. 1942 - October, Clarence S stirred up a controversy in Cleveland after discovering that Dr Bob and Bill W were receiving royalties from Big Book sales. (DBGO 267-269, BW-FH 153-154, AACOA 193-194) Bill and Dr Bob re-examined the problem of their financial status and concluded that royalties from the Big Book seemed to be the only answer to the problem. Bill sought counsel from his spiritual sponsor, Father Edward Dowling, who suggested that Bill and Bob could not accept money for 12th Step work, but should accept royalties as compensation for special services. This later formed the basis for Tradition 8 and Concept 11. Due to the amount of time both co-founders dedicated to the Fellowship, it was impossible for either of them to earn a living through their normal professions. (AACOA 194-195, PIO 322-324) .. 1945 - The Alcoholic Foundation wrote to John D Rockefeller Jr and the 1940 dinner guests that AA no longer needed their financial help. Big Book royalties could look after Dr Bob and Bill and group contributions could pay the office expenses. If these were insufficient, the reserve accumulated out of literature sales could meet the deficit. In total, Rockefeller and the dinner guest donated $30,700 ($365,000 today) to AA. The donations were viewed as loans and paid back out of Big Book income. This led to the principle of being fully self-supporting declining all further outside contributions and later formed the basis of Tradition 7. (AACOA 203-204) .. 1947 - August, in his Grapevine Traditions essay titled "Last Seven Years Have Made AA Self-Supporting" Bill W wrote "Two years ago the trustees set aside, out of AA book funds, a sum which enabled my wife and me to pay off the mortgage on our home and make some needed improvements. The Foundation also granted Dr Bob and me each a royalty of 10% on the book Alcoholics Anonymous, our only income from AA sources. We are both very comfortable and deeply grateful." (LOH 62-66) .. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5544. . . . . . . . . . . . History of Royalties - Part 2 From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2009 10:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 1951 - April 20-22, (NY City) 37 United States and Canadian delegates (half the planned number) convened at the Commodore Hotel as the first Panel of the General Service Conference. .. It was reported that the Trustees of the Foundation, following Dr. Bob's death, had voted to increase Bill's royalty on the Big Book from 10 percent to 15 per cent. .This author's royalty would also apply to other Books the Trustees are anxious to have Bill prepare for their consideration in the future. The chairman reported that Bill insisted that this increase be approved by the General Service Conference. A motion approving the action of the Trustees was approved unanimously by the Delegates. The Conference also approved unanimously a motion recommending that steps be taken to insure that Bill and Lois receive book royalties so long as either one shall live. (1951 GSC-FR 12) .. 1952 - As he did in 1951, Bill reviewed with the delegates the financial arrangements under which he now works, reminding them that his living is derived from royalties on the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous." Should there be an increase in his royalties as a result of the writing project he has set for himself, Bill said, he would wish to take from them only "a good living, not necessarily the full royalties his writings may earn. As a matter of movement interest, Bill said, he hoped it would be agreeable if he had discretion over the disposition of his excess royalties - not for personal use, but for such matters as restitution to creditors and some provision for the future of General Service Office employees who now have no form of social security. Bill's presentation was approved in its entirety, upon recommendation of the Conference Committee on Literature. (1952 GSC-FR 21) .. 1954 - The Alcoholic Foundation Board reported that it decided not to accept, a royalty of $.25 per copy on sales of a book on The Twelve Steps, which had been offered by the publishers. (1954 GSC-FR 17) .. 1955 - July 1-3, AA's 20th anniversary and 2nd International Convention was held in St Louis' Kiel Auditorium. Bill W thanked the Convention attendees for purchasing the Big Book because the royalties from it had provided him and Lois with a home where they had seen more than 3,000 AA members over the years. (AACOA 220, PIO 354, 357) .. 1957 - At the Conference, Bill read to the Delegates the following letter addressed to Mr. Archibald B. Roosevelt, Treasurer of the General Service Board: .. Dear Archie: .. As many are aware, I have long felt that my personal finances should always be an open book to our membership. Ever since 1951, when the General Service Conference first met, my book royalties and m y expense allowances have been shown in each year's audit. This practice will of course be continued. This year, however, I would like to make a full accounting for all monies received by me from 1938, when the Alcoholic Foundation was created, to 1955 when, at St. Louis, the Conference and its General Service Board assumed final responsibility for AA's world affairs. .. This seventeen-year audit has been prepared by Mr. Wilbur Smith, our CPA, and is here enclosed. Saving the small amounts 1 received as a result of Mr. Rockefeller's 1940 dinner, it can be seen that m y whole income over those years has derived only from AA Publishing activities. My other services to the Headquarters were all volunteer. .. I earnestly recommend that this detailed accounting be always shown to every Conference Delegate on request; and further that a copy of this audit be placed on permanent file at the New York Headquarters where, on request, it can be read by any visiting AA member. .. Ever yours, .. Bill .. P. S. I hope that the Conference sees fit to publish this letter each year in its annual report. .. 1958 - April, (NY City) the 8th Conference. The status of Bill W, cofounder of AA, in relation to the Fellowship was clarified in two respects at the 1958 Conference. .. The first point of clarification was requested directly by Bill in a letter to Delegates in which he pointed out that several future courses were open to him, ranging from complete disassociation from AA service matters to continuing participation in the number of unfinished projects which he feels are important to the welfare of the movement. .. On this point the Conference voted unanimously to ask Bill to provide continuing leadership on all projects of movement wide concern in which he is currently interested. .. In a second vote, the Conference approved the action of the General Service Board in re-assigning to Bill royalty rights in his three books (Alcoholics Anonymous, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions and Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age), and in books he may write in the future, for the duration of the copyrights involved. Bill has declared his intention to have these royalty rights revert to the movement when the copyrights expire. (1958 GSC-FR 7) .. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5545. . . . . . . . . . . . History of Royalties - Part 3 From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2009 10:53:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 1961 - April 19-23, (NY City) the 11th Conference. Bill W asked the General Service Board of Trustees to consider specific action, in respect of royalty payments on textbook literature, to assure that co-Founder Bill and his wife, Lois, may not suffer a possible loss of income in the future. .. In a moving display of its affection for Bill as the surviving co-founder of A. A. and for Lois, his wife, the Eleventh Conference suggested to the Board of Trustees that changes be made in Bill's current royalty arrangement involving A. A. textbooks to minimize the possibility that Bill's income might be reduced in the future if cheaper editions of AA texts are ever produced. .. The action was occasioned by a general discussion of the advisability of producing a "cheap edition" of the "Big Book". (See separate Policy page of this report) .. In the course of the discussion, Bill reviewed his financial arrangements with the movement, pointing out that all his income derived from book royalties and that he did not receive compensation for his non-writing services to the Fellowship. He stressed that he was not interested in accumulating a large estate but that he was concerned for the welfare of Lois and certain immediate relatives and devoted friends who might require assistance in the event of his passing. He said that he had already deposited with the Trustees an informal "letter of intent" suggesting what disposition might be made of royalties due his estate after his death. .. While noting that the reduced royalties from paperback texts would undoubtedly curtail his income, Bill repeated a pledge that he has given previous Conferences. He said that if royalties under his present contract should become "unseemingly large" he would reduce them voluntarily or permit the movement to take the initiative in reducing them. .. Trustee Dick S presented the following memorandum which was converted into a motion from the floor and adopted unanimously: "The Conference recognizes that the publication of cheap editions of AA books would probably reduce the income to World Services, and Bill's personal income. This conference unanimously suggests the following to the Trustees: To add a rider to Bill's royalty contract to the effect that, if cheaper books are ever published, Bill's royalties be increased by an amount sufficient to keep the royalty income at the same average level it had been for the five years before cheaper books were published; (further, that) as time goes on, if inflation erodes the purchasing power of this income, the Trustees will adjust the royalties to produce the same approximate purchasing power; this to be effective during the lifetime of Bill and Lois and Bill's legatees." (PIO 393, 1961 GSC-FR 3, 7) .. 1963 - Bill W modified his royalty agreement with AAWS so that 10% of his royalties went to his mistress, Grapevine Editor, Helen W. The agreement provided Bill and Lois with a comfortable living on annual incomes between $30,000 to $40,000 during the 1960's ($175,000 to $233,000 today). At the time of Bill's death (1971) it was around $56,000 ($295,000 today). In the 1970's, royalties surged significantly and it made Lois W quite rich. (PIO 393, BW-FH 192-193, GB 69-70, WPR 72) .. 1964 - April 21-26, (NY City) the 14th Conference reported that it reviewed and approved an agreement between' Bill W, co-founder, and AA World Services Inc covering royalties derived from Bill's writings. (The intent of the agreement is to protect Bill, his wife, Lois, and their designated heirs, while defining AAWS's position as the Society's publishing agency). (1964 GSC-FR 4) .. A section of the Conference Report titled "Royalty Agreement On Bill's Writings Approved" stated: .. Of all the factors responsible for the growth of AA (and for the sobriety of hundreds of thousands of men and women around the world), probably none is more important than the movement's book literature. The three major texts - "Alcoholics Anonymous," "The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" and "AA Comes of Age" along with the service manual on The Twelve Concepts of Service are likely to endure as keys to personal sobriety and Group survival. All four publications have one thing in common; they were written or edited by Bill W, surviving co-founder, and the copyrights to them were assigned by Bill to the movement. The movement was thus assured ownership of its basic publications, the income from which has also underwritten many of the Society's world services. .. For his services to AA over a period of nearly 30 years, Bill has never received salary compensation from the movement. His only income has been from royalties on his writings and editorial work. Because the earlier royalty agreements made no provision for protecting Lois, Bill's wife, in the event of Bill's death, and did not provide for a transfer of royalties to relatives to whom Bill and Lois have obligations, the agreements have been reviewed by the General Service Board in recent years. .. As a result, the Board in April, 1963, concluded a new agreement with Bill which was submitted to the 1964 Conference for review and approval. The new agreement, outlined in the report of the Conference Finance Committee, was approved unanimously by the Delegates. .. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5546. . . . . . . . . . . . History of Royalties - Part 4 From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2009 10:54:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The 1964 Conference Approved an agreement between Bill W, co-founder, and AA World Services Inc covering royalties derived from Bill's writings. .. Under the terms of the contract, a royalty of 15 per cent is paid to Bill, except that no royalties are paid on "overseas editions." Royalties are to be paid to Bill and Lois, his wife, during their lifetimes; following the deaths of Bill and Lois, royalties revert in shares of royalties to living heirs. These shares revert to AAWS upon the deaths of the beneficiaries. Not more than 20 per cent may be bequeathed to any heir under the age of 40 years as of the date of the agreement between Bill and AAWS (April 29, 1963). The contract provides protection of royalties against "cheap books" and protection of AAWS and Bill against fluctuations in general economic conditions. AAWS retains the right of “first refusal" on any future literary works of Bill's. (1964 GSC-FR 9, 37) .. 1967 - April, the US copyright to the first edition Big Book expired and was not renewed. The oversight was not discovered until nearly 20 years later in 1985. It was also discovered in 1985 that the US copyright to new material in the second edition Big Book had lapsed in 1983. It should be noted however that the Big Book copyright has expired only in the US. It is still in force outside the US under international treaty agreements. (NG 299, GSO) .. 1975 - The Ask It Basket for the Conference contained the question: .. Q. Who receives the royalties from book sales? What did this amount to in 1974? In 1973? .. A. They used to go to Bill, now go to heirs designated in his will. Amounts are in your financial statements for 1973 and 1974. (1964 GSC-FR 40) .. 1978 - (1978 GSC-FR 43) contained the following: AA World Services, Inc, as lessee, provides facilities for GSO and the Grapevine, both of which pay for the space they occupy. As employer, AAWS pays GSO employees' salaries. And as publisher, AAWS owns the copyrights on all Conference approved books and literature. It pays Lois a royalty on the books Bill wrote. (This royalty was Bill's only source of income from AA. He never received a salary.) .. The Ask It Basket for the 1978 Conference contained the question: .. Q Please explain the royalties on the AA books. .. A The royalties agreement on the books Bill wrote are covered in a contract between Bill and the board. The royalty is 15% of the retail price. The contract provides that he could pass the royalties along to his widow, and that she could pass them on to another family member who is over 40 years of age at that time. Following the death of the family member, the royalties cease to exist and the money reverts to AA. The dollar amount is reported yearly in the Conference Report (see pg 50). .. 1980 - (1980 GSC-FR 31) contained the following: .. Big Book tapes - We approved the price of $25. We sought legal counsel on royalties and were advised that, as tapes were not covered in the original contract between Bill W and the board, there is no legal obligation. However, a moral obligation seemed t o exist. Lois W was consulted, and she chooses to forgo any royalties for one year and then review the matter. .. 1983 - The copyright to the new material in the second edition Big Book expired without being renewed. AAWS did not discover the oversight until 1985. (NG 299) (1983 GSC-FR 31) contained the following: .. After discussion and thought by this board and by the trustees, we accepted Lois W's proposal that the 1963 royalty agreement between Bill W and the board be amended to permit her to bequeath part of her royalties to a foundation for at least ten years after her death or until 1997, whichever is later, and also a part to her nephew. .. 1984 - The Ask It Basket for the 1984 Conference contained the question: Q Could you please explain the royalties being paid on our literature? (I) On which pieces of literature do we pay royalties? (2) How much? (3) To whom? (4) For how long? A (1) The royalties are paid on the books Bill W wrote and are: Big Book; "AA Comes of Age," "As Bill Sees It," and "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions." (2) - (4) The royalties are the result of an agreement between AAWS and Bill W in 1963. Bill got 15% of the retail value of the books, and Lois was to receive 13 ½% of the retail value of the books, which she still receives today. As of last year, under the terms of the agreement between Bill and AAWS, Lois could, on a one-time basis, bequeath 80% of the royalties to individuals who were age 40 or more in 1963. The remaining 20% could be left to anyone at any age. This agreement has now been amended, and Lois can leave the royalties to other than an individual, such as a foundation to maintain Stepping Stones. However, any royalties Lois wills to a foundation will terminate ten years after her death. All other royalties will revert back to the board upon the demise of the recipient. (1984 GSC-FR 32) .. 1985 - AAWS discovered that the copyrights to the first and second edition of the Big Book had expired. The copyright on the first edition lapsed in 1967. The copyright on new material in the second edition lapsed in 1983. Both AAWS and the Wilson estate shared responsibility for copyright renewal. (NG 299, www) .. The Ask It Basket for the 1984 Conference contained the question: Q When and by whom was it decided that Lois's royalties could and would be bequeathed to the next generation, and when will the royalties become AA's totally, if ever? A The royalties are paid on the books Bill W wrote, which are: The Big Book; "AA Comes of Age," "As Bill Sees It," and "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" (two editions). The royalties are the result of an agreement between AAWS and Bill W in 1963. Lois was to receive 13 ½% of the retail value of the books, which she still receives today. Under the terms of the agreement between Bill and AAWS, Lois could, on a one-time basis, bequeath 80% of the royalties to individuals who were age 40 or more in 1963. The remaining 20% could be left to individuals of any age. This agreement has now been amended, and Lois can leave the royalties to other than an individual, such as a foundation to maintain Stepping Stones. However, any royalties Lois wills to a foundation will terminate ten years after her death. All other royalties will revert back to the board upon the demise of the recipient. In the amendment, Lois gives up the right to leave anything to individuals younger than age 40 in 1963 except for an individual who was a few months short of age 40 at that time. (1985 GSC-FR 32) .. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5547. . . . . . . . . . . . History of Royalties - Part 5 (last) From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2009 10:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 1986 - (1986 GSC-FR 8) contained the following under the title "Update on AA's copyrights." .. The copyright on the first edition of the Big Book lapsed in 1967 and the copyright on the new material in the second edition lapsed in 1983--both because of a failure to renew them in a timely fashion. There was a mistaken belief that registering the copyright on the second edition in 1956 served to revive the copyright on the first edition; the misconception continued, with respect to the second edition, when the third edition was copyrighted in 1976. .. But what was to be done about the royalties to Lois W prescribed in a 1963 agreement between Bill and AAWS Inc? We and Lois reaffirmed the intent of Bill and the 1963 AAWS board by negotiating an amendment providing for the continuation of the 1963 agreement as though the copyrights were still valid and guaranteeing that Lois and AAWS, Inc, would each hold the other harmless for the loss of the copyright in 1967. .. 1986 - (1986 GSC-FR 28-29) contained the following under the report from AAWS: .. We discovered that the copyright to the first edition of the Big Book lapsed in 1967, and that the material in that book has been in the public domain since that time. This event was precipitated by the publishing of a replica of the first edition by CTM Inc. As a result, we engaged in significant legal exchanges with that company, and we believe it has ceased to publish. Future responsibility for copyrights has been placed in the hands of attorneys. .. An Agreement between Lois W and AAWS, Inc, was executed by Lois and John Bragg (as president) on August 26, 1985, stipulating that: (1) Big Book royalty payments will continue to be made as though the copyrights were still in force; and (2) both AAWS and Lois (and her heirs) are released from claims against the other for failure, if any, by AAWS, Inc or Bill W (respectively) to apply for Big Book copyright renewal. .. 1988 - (1988 GSC-FR 32) contained the following under the report from AAWS: .. Our copyright attorneys sent a letter to the publisher and Nan R, the author, regarding her book "AA. -Inside Alcoholics Anonymous" which contains excerpts from AA literature, the use of AA's trademark, and a violation of the Twelfth Tradition. Due to lack of cooperation on the part of the author and the publisher, we were advised by legal counsel to expeditiously take all appropriate action with respect to trademark violation, including litigation if necessary, regarding the book, which gives the impression it is allied with AA and also threatens to be harmful to AA interests. As a result some, but not all, objectionable features have been removed. .. Agreed to renegotiate the renewal rights to As Bill Sees It once these rights mature, and to discontinue negotiations with Lois W's attorney. .. 1988 - Oct 5, Lois W (age 97) co-founder of Al-Anon Family Groups, died. (AACOA xi) Royalties passed to her surviving designated heirs who included Dr Leonard Strong husband of Lois' sister-in-law Dorothy (Bill's sister), a niece and nephew, Muriel Strong Morley and Leonard V Strong III, and sisters-in-law Laura and Florence Burnham. Also listed were Nell Wing, Lois' cousins Carol Lou Burnham, Ann Burhan Smith, Ann Walker, Dixon Walker and Kate Knap plus Bill's cousins Jean Kalkoff and Barbara Palazari. 50% was bequeathed to the Stepping Stones Foundation (to terminate on the later of August 31, 1997 or 10 years after Lois' death). .. 1995 - (1995 GSC-FR 25) contained the following under the report from AAWS: We discussed the proposal to settle with the recipients of our royalty payments which would end our legal obligation to pay royalties. After discussion, it was the consensus of the board that this would not be beneficial at this point in time. .. 2007 - Based on data in final Conference Reports: .. Cumulative royalties amounted to $656,095 up to Bill's death in January 1971 ($4,151,978 in 2006 dollars). Cumulative royalties amounted to $9,063,985 up to Lois' death in October 1988 ($23,259,233 in 2006 dollars). Cumulative royalties from 1950 to 2007 totaled $19,148,182 ($37,117,034 in 2006 dollars). .. Cheers Arthur [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5548. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Bill W quote: Our quarrels have not hurt us .... From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/24/2009 3:55:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Don't know about a "convention", but this is what Bill said in a talk recorded in As Bill Sees It under the heading Trouble Becomes an Asset: "I think that this particular General Service Conference (1958) holds promise and has been filled with progress - because it has had trouble ... If this Conference was ruffled, if individuals were deeply disturbed - I say, 'This is fine.' What parliament, what republic, what democracy has not been disturbed? Friction of opposing viewpoints is the very modus operandi on which they proceed. Then what should we be afraid of?" - - - - To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com From: Baileygc23@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:22:57 -0500 Subject: Bill W quote: Our quarrels have not hurt us .... Bill W. addressed one convention and said, 'Our quarrels have not hurt us one bit.' Can anyone tell me which convention it was, and where I can get a copy of his entire address to that convention? _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new and improved services from Windows Live. Learn more! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/132630768/direct/01/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5549. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Big Book royalties -- 10% to Helen W. From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/24/2009 4:07:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Re history of BB royalties: "Helen (Wynn) was always broke ... (so) Bill decided that she would inherit a percentage of his royalties from the (Big) book..." (My Name is Bill, Susan Cheever, Washington Square Press, 2004); and, "After Helen left the Grapevine in 1962, Bill contributed to her support though when he wanted to direct a portion of his royalty income to her, the AA trustees refused to do it. Bill was furious, and Helen was terribly hurt. In 1963, though, prompted by his worsening emphysema, Bill and AA executed a new royalty agreement that called for Helen to receive ten per cent of his book royalties, and Lois 90 per cent after his death. Bill also added a codicil to his will in which he referred to this agreement and confirmed that the allocation of royalty income it provided was indeed his desire." (Bill W: a biography of Alcoholics Anonymous cofounder Bill Wilson, Francis Hartigan, Thomas Dunne Books, St Martin's Griffin, 2000). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5550. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: History of Royalties - on AACOA From: mdingle76 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/25/2009 10:09:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The following carbon copy was found in a file cabinet belonging to Tom Powers at East Ridge: Harper & Brothers Jun 3, 1957 49 E. 33rd Street New York, NY Attention: Mr Eugene Exman, Religious Editor Gentlemen: Referring to the coming publication by you of "A.A. Comes of Age" of which I am the author, I wish to make the following disposition of my royalty of 15% for the duration of the first copyright or for the duration of the time you continue to distribute the book — whichever is the greater. In advance of this publication I would like to assign my royalties to the following people, for services rendered: On the first five thousand books, I would like my royalty equally divided between Mr. Tom Powers of Chappaqua, New York, and Miss Nell Wing of New York City. Should you dispose of more than this quantity, I would like my royalties on the remainder divided equally between Mrs. Katherine Swentzel of New York City and Mrs. Helen Riker of Phoenix, Arizona. On the death of any of these people, their share of the royalty will become payable to my account at Alcoholics Anonymous Publishing, Inc., New York City. Again, let me thank you deeply for the wonderful cooperation that I have enjoyed in the preparation of this book from all of you concerned at Harpers. Sincerely yours, William G. Wilson WGW/nw IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5551. . . . . . . . . . . . Royalties for Grapevine related literature From: Stockholm Fellowship . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/26/2009 4:15:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Thank you for the recent history on the royalties for the Big Book and other AAWS literature. I was wondering if anyone knows if royalties are paid to anyone from Grapevine related literature. "Language of the Heart" is a collection of all the Grapevine writings of Bill W. and there have been other anthologies as well. As the Grapevine is official AA literature, though a separate and self-supporting entity, I was curious about any royalties there. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5552. . . . . . . . . . . . Mottos on old anniversary chips From: il22993us . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/28/2009 9:55:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII My father received his first chip sometime in the late 1960's or 70's. The chip says: "recover, serve, unite" rather than "recovery, service, unity" (like the chips we give out today). His 2nd year chip has what we have now. Does anyone know what year the words changed? Was there a pattern here? Thanks! Carole, DOS: 07-03-2006 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5553. . . . . . . . . . . . AA in New Jersey 70th Anniversary Celebration From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/27/2009 6:08:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 8:00 PM Thursday May 14, 2009 Central Presbyterian Church 46 Park Street Montclair, New Jersey CELEBRATE THE 70th ANNIVERSARY OF A.A. IN NEW JERSEY Come Commemorate the Historic Occasion of the First A.A. meeting in New Jersey on May 14, 1939. (in cooperation with District 37 and the New Haven Group of Montclair, New Jersey) This will be an open speaker meeting recalling The Early History of Alcoholics Anonymous in Northern New Jersey. Come and experience the archives displays detailing the history of A.A. in Northern New Jersey. God Bless, John B For more information e-mail: archives@nnjaa.org And see the flyer at: http://www.nnjaa.org/pdf/district37_montclair_anniv_2009-05-14.pdf - - - - http://www.nnjaa.org/area44/pdf/archives_first_meeting_2009-01-27.pdf A.A. Group # 4 The New Jersey Group of Alcoholics Anonymous On May 14, 1939, a Sunday afternoon, the very first meeting of what was to become the New Jersey Group of Alcoholics Anonymous took place in the home of Hank and Kathleen P. in Upper Montclair. Meetings that had been formerly held in Brooklyn were held in New Jersey for the next 5 or 6 weeks. The meetings began at 4:00 PM and went most of the night. They rotated speakers for the first portion according to Jimmy B. who was living at Hank and Kathleen's home at that time. These were dinner meetings with Herb D. of South Orange paying for a "big spread". The wives always attended these meetings along with their spouses. At the May 14th meeting the attendees voted in the Bill and Lois Home Replacement Fund and each pledged different amounts of support. Bill and Lois were doing an errand when they voted on this. They arrived shortly thereafter and Lois wrote in her diary that they were thrilled. Marty M., a Blythewood Sanitarium patient at the time, took the train from Connecticut to this historical event of Alcoholics Anonymous in New Jersey. The New Jersey Group of A.A. was later renamed the South Orange Sunday Night Group. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5554. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature From: johnlawlee . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/26/2009 3:19:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Stockholm Fellowship wrote: > > Thank you for the recent history on the > royalties for the Big Book and other AAWS > literature. I was wondering if anyone knows > if royalties are paid to anyone from Grapevine > related literature. "Language of the Heart" > is a collection of all the Grapevine writings > of Bill W. and there have been other > anthologies as well. As the Grapevine is > official AA literature, though a separate > and self-supporting entity, I was curious > about any royalties there. > I don't believe The Grapevine magazine has ever been self-supporting. It bleeds money. WSO makes millions on the sale of the Big Books, but that may be its only profitable venture. Our Area is pushing for a Conference action that would end subsidies for the magazine, and would make it available in an online[only]free version. That Action would save millions of dollars and make the magazine available to millions of people. John Lee, Pittsburgh IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5555. . . . . . . . . . . . Spelling of Ebby''s last name From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/1/2009 6:22:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Is Ebby's last name Thatcher or Thacher? LD Pierce http://www.aabibliography.com - - - - From GFC, the moderator: http://www.texasdistrict5.com/history-in-photos.htm about 40% of the way down the page, has a photo of Ebby's Headstone Albany Rural Cemetery, Albany NY The headstone reads: Edwin T. Thacher 1896-1966 - - - - --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Stonebraker" wrote: > > Did Ebby -- being who he was, "Edwin > Throckmorton Thacher, the brother of the > Mayor of Albany, New York" -- really live, > eat and sleep in the Calvary Mission -- > or was he kept in the much nicer Calvary > Parish House? > > Bob S. > > P.S. There is a picture of the Calvary > Church Parish House and Mission on the > site below - thanks Art! > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Indyfourthdimension > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Robert Stonebraker > 212 SW 18th Street > Richmond, IN 47347 > (765) 935-0130 > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5556. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature From: stockholmfellowship . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/1/2009 10:02:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII http://www.aagrapevine.org/about/ The Grapevine is self-supporting. I would be VERY disappointed if the AA Grapevine stopped publishing the magazine. I have lived in several countries overseas and have enjoyed being able to take the Grapevine as a portable meeting when in transit or in countries where there is a language barrier. And, I have a hard-copy to pass on to others. In the States, where I got sober, our service district would bundle old copies of the Grapevine and give them to prisons, hospitals and institutions. Whatever, I just wanted to know if there are any royalties paid by the AA Grapevine to Bill W's estate for "Language of the Heart" or any other such books. - - - - From: Jon Markle (serenitylodge at mac.com) John Lee, could I ask you to support the statement that "WSO makes millions on the sale of the Big Books"? I hope this doesn't go anywhere. There are many people who do not use the internet, or they do not have access to a computer. To limit the Grapevine, or any other of our literature to on-line access only would be a great disservice to our Fellowship, in my opinion. I don't see how this would fly. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 - - - - --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "johnlawlee" (johnlawlee at yahoo.com) wrote: > > --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, > Stockholm Fellowship > wrote: > > > > Thank you for the recent history on the > > royalties for the Big Book and other AAWS > > literature. I was wondering if anyone knows > > if royalties are paid to anyone from Grapevine > > related literature. "Language of the Heart" > > is a collection of all the Grapevine writings > > of Bill W. and there have been other > > anthologies as well. As the Grapevine is > > official AA literature, though a separate > > and self-supporting entity, I was curious > > about any royalties there. > > > I don't believe The Grapevine magazine has ever > been self-supporting. It bleeds money. WSO > makes millions on the sale of the Big Books, > but that may be its only profitable venture. > Our Area is pushing for a Conference action > that would end subsidies for the magazine, and > would make it available in an online[only]free > version. That Action would save millions of > dollars and make the magazine available to > millions of people. > > John Lee, Pittsburgh > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5557. . . . . . . . . . . . Grapevine finances From: edgarc@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/1/2009 6:30:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In Message 5554 from (johnlawlee it yahoo.com) John Lee of Pittsburgh said: I don't believe The Grapevine magazine has ever been self-supporting. It bleeds money. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The 990 (income tax) form filed by Alcoholics Anonymous Grapevine, Inc. for 2007, the latest year, shows total revenues of $2,825,277 and total expenses of $2,850,324 for a deficit for the year of $25,047, or a tad less than 1 per cent, which can hardly justify the judgement that it "bleeds money." As long as we're looking at the 990s, the tax return for 2007 for General Service Board of AA shows total revenue of $9,269,143 and total expenses of $8,784,628 for an excess of $484,515 or a little over 5%. And the 990 for World Services, the publishing arm, shows total revenue of $8,736,348 and total expenses of $7,999,966 for an excess of $736,382 or about 8.5 per cent. All three tax returns are available to anyone who registers (free) at Guidestar.org, which provides a searchable database of information about 1.7 million charities recognized by the IRS . . . Edgar C, Sarasota, Florida IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5558. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation From: mdingle76 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/25/2009 9:48:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From the little I've heard Tom P. (Bill's editorial consultant and close friend) speak of Wilson's 11th Step practice, he [Tom] stated the following: 1) Praying in private was important — with the door locked if possible. Use a partition if you share a room with a spouse. 2) Saying the St. Francis prayer and the 23rd Psalm — which Bill taught his sponsees to say. Also, Bill's favorite Hymn was "Holy, Holy, Holy." 3) Reading the Bible everyday. For whatever it's worth! Matt D. - - - - From: James Flynn (jdf10487 at yahoo.com) According to some biographers, Bill W. used automatic writing as a means of receiving guidance from a Higher Power. He also held seances and experimented with other forms of spiritualism. Sincerely, Jim F. - - - - From GFC the moderator: Bill & Lois's morning prayer in Pass It On, page 265 Oh Lord, we thank Thee that Thou art, that we are from everlasting to everlasting. Blessed be Thy holy name and all Thy benefactions to us of light, of love, and of service. May we find and do Thy will in good strength, in good cheer today. May Thy ever-present grace be discovered by family and friends -- those here and those beyond -- by our Societies throughout the world, by men and women everywhere, and among those who must lead in these troubled times. Oh Lord, we know Thee to be all wonder, all beauty, all glory, all power, all love. Indeed, Thou art everlasting love. Accordingly, Thou has fashioned for us a destiny passing through Thy many mansions, ever in more discovery of Thee and in no separation between ourselves. - - - - --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "ryantfowler@..." wrote: > > Does anyone know what Bill Wilson's meditation > practices were like, especially toward the end > of his life? Also, does anyone know when > guided meditation meetings were first held? > > - - - - > > From the moderator: > > http://hindsfoot.org/medit11.doc > > "Twelve-Step Meditation in the A.A. Big Book > and the 12 & 12" > > will give you an intro to a lot of this. > > Among other things, this article describes > how Bill W. himself talked about the use of > guided imagery on page 100 of the 12 + 12. > > The sections at the end of the article talk > about: > > Quiet Time > > Jacobson's method of progressive relaxation > (VERY effective, and too little known and > used in AA) > > Emmet Fox, The Golden Key > (plus Fox's method of reciting a mantra > to quiet and calm the soul) > > Glenn C. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5559. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/2/2009 2:23:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Bill W and his long time problems with depression and other things brings to mind his interactions with Dr Earle and Dr Earle's comments on their relationship, plus Dr Earle and his search for serenity in Asia. Since Dr Earle's attempt to find solace in Eastern ideas had Bill W's interest, it could add another aspect to Bill W as well as Dr Earle's efforts at meditation practices. George - - - - From the moderator, for more about Dr. Earle M., whom George refers to, see: http://silkworth.net/aabiography/earlem.html Biography: "Physician Heal Thyself!" Dr. Earle M., San Francisco Bay Area, CA. (p. 393 in 2nd edition, p. 345 in 3rd edition, p. 301 in the 4th edition.) "During his first year in A.A. he went to New York and met Bill W. They became very close and talked frequently both on the phone and in person. He frequently visited Bill at his home, Stepping Stones. He called Bill one of his sponsors, and said there was hardly a topic they did not discuss in detail. He took a Fifth Step with Bill. And Bill often talked over his depressions with Earle." "In a search for serenity Earle studied and practiced many forms of religion: Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancestor worship." GFC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5560. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Spelling of Ebby''s last name From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/4/2009 2:44:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII THACHER (not Thatcher) You can see Ebby's signature in his own writing: http://silkworth.net/aahistory/Signatures_found_in_1st_Big_Book_04_1939.doc Best Regards John B - - - - Message 5446, Dec 21, 2008 from LES COLE (elsietwo at msn.com) I had, for years written Ebby's last name with a "t". I don't know why it was but it seemed OK. Then, recently, I found a picture of Ebby's grave stone and learned how it actually was spelled without the "t". That was my answer. In this new piece, "signatures" I see that Ebby signed his own name without a "t," YET when Virginia MacLeod wrote he commentaries on the same book pages, she wrote Thatcher WITH a "t." Isn't it interesting that the oft-repeated error got started that far back, and when she saw Ebby's signature in the same book, she established an early precedent? Les Colorado Springs, CO - - - - From GFC, the moderator: EBBY'S TOMBSTONE http://www.texasdis trict5.com/ history-in- photos.htm about 40% of the way down the page, has a photo of Ebby's Headstone Albany Rural Cemetery, Albany NY The headstone reads: Edwin T. Thacher 1896-1966 - - - - IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5561. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Grapevine finances From: Kimball ROWE . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/3/2009 9:48:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Please make the distinction between "The Grapevine Magazine" and "Grapevine Inc." They are not the same. The tax forms for one cannot be use to support the other. The "magazine" is the primary vehicle for keeping the "Inc" afloat. Off the soap box - - - - From: (elg3_79 at yahoo.com) I realize this discussion is wandering somewhat from historical interest, but those of us who take meetings into correctional facilities where even paperback books are not allowed depend on the Grapevine for our readings and to be able to offer something material to the inmates. An online version could be printed out but does not have the same authenticity as a printed, copyrighted Grapevine issue. (Even without the staples, which we sometimes must remove. The GV is rumored to be beginning to make a shift to glued binding.) Y'all's in service, Ted G. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5562. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/28/2009 4:29:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII But it would not, as it happens, make it available to those in jail or prison, which is where at least anecdotal evidence indicates it is the most useful. I would welcome historical evidence on whether the grapevine has been self-supporting, but it may be that -- historically, and this is AAHistoryLovers -- the Grapevine was no more envisioned as self-supporting in and of itself than any variety of twelfth-step work would be expected, if evaluated specifically and separately from all other Twelfth-Step activities, to be self-supporting in and of itself. I rather think the original "inkstained wretches" may have carried the burden themselves -- Marty and Priscilla and Lois K and Bud T and Felicia and the guy who ran the bookshop on 5th Avenue all had money. Still, it would be interesting to know if it was ever envisioned that the Grapevine would pay for itself. - - - - > From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com > Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 > I don't believe The Grapevine magazine has ever > been self-supporting. It bleeds money .... > Our Area is pushing for a Conference action > that would end subsidies for the magazine, and > would make it available in an online[only]free > version. That Action would save millions of > dollars and make the magazine available to > millions of people. > > John Lee, Pittsburgh - - - - On Mar 3, 2009, at 9:48 AM, Kimball ROWE wrote: > The GV is rumored to be beginning > to make a shift to glued binding.) - - - - From: Cindy Miller (cm53 at earthlink.net) Rumor confirmed. I got mine last week. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5563. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation From: mdingle76 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/5/2009 6:59:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII One man who influenced Bill Wilson greatly was Gerald Heard. Gerald was the man who introduced Bill to Aldous Huxley. I suspect that Gene Exman (the religious editor over at Harper that Bill visited with the first 2 chapters of the Big Book)introduced Bill to Gerald. Anyway, Bill (and Lois) first visited Heard on a trip to California in 1941. Heard had been practicing yoga and earnestly studying the Scriptures of many of the world's great religions. Heard wrote many books on the subject of God, religion and also UFO's (a subject that Bill was very interested in and would talk to Heard about at lengths). One of Heard's books even made it into Dr. Bob's library — "A Preface to Prayer." Tom Powers often said that Heard was one of Bill's sponsors. Heard was particularly influenced by Sri Ramakrishna and Heard donated his Monastery, Trabucco Canyon, to the Vedanta Society of Southern California, to be run by Swami Prabhavananda. You can also read Gerald Heard's article in the AA Grapevine called "The Search for Ecstasy." He also wrote articles about AA published in sources outside the Grapevine. Gerald (and Dr. Cohen) oversaw the LSD sessions that both Tom and Bill experienced. (It was Tom and Bill who were sent to California on AA Headquarters business to get AA out on the big screen — a story for a different day.) Matt D. ______________________________ FROM THE MODERATOR: WIKIPEDIA SAYS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Heard "Henry Fitzgerald Heard commonly called Gerald Heard (October 6, 1889 - August 14, 1971) was a historian, science writer, educator, and philosopher. He wrote many articles and over 35 books. Heard was a guide and mentor to numerous well-known Americans, including Clare Boothe Luce and Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, in the 1950s and 1960s." - - - - Message 5228 from ArtSheehan@msn.com (ArtSheehan at msn.com) British radio commentator Gerald Heard introduced Bill W to Aldous Huxley and British psychiatrists Humphrey Osmond and Abram Hoffer. Bill joined with Heard and Huxley and first took LSD in California on August 29, 1956. Among those invited to experiment with LSD (and who accepted) were Nell Wing, Father Ed Dowling, Sam Shoemaker and Lois Wilson. Marty M and other AA members participated in New York (under medical supervision by a psychiatrist from Roosevelt Hospital). - - - - Message 4806 from jlobdell54@hotmail.com (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) I have recently seen on a couple of AA-related history sites a statement that H. F. Heard was a pen-name for Aldous Huxley. In fact H. F. Heard was Henry FitzGerald Heard (1889-1971) who also wrote as Gerald Heard. He was a friend of Aldous Huxley (and of Bill Wilson) but he certainly was not Aldous Huxley. ______________________________ MATT D. IS RESPONDING TO MESSAGE 5559 from (Baileygc23 at aol.com) > Bill W and his long time problems with > depression and other things brings to mind his > interactions with Dr Earle and Dr Earle's > comments on their relationship, plus > Dr Earle and his search for serenity in Asia. > > Since Dr Earle's attempt to find solace in > Eastern ideas had Bill W's interest, it could > add another aspect to Bill W as well as > Dr Earle's efforts at meditation practices. > > George > > - - - - > > From the moderator, for more about > Dr. Earle M., whom George refers to, see: > > http://silkworth.net/aabiography/earlem.html > > Biography: "Physician Heal Thyself!" > Dr. Earle M., San Francisco Bay Area, CA. > (p. 393 in 2nd edition, p. 345 in 3rd > edition, p. 301 in the 4th edition.) > > "During his first year in A.A. he went to New > York and met Bill W. They became very close > and talked frequently both on the phone and > in person. He frequently visited Bill at his > home, Stepping Stones. He called Bill one > of his sponsors, and said there was hardly a > topic they did not discuss in detail. He took > a Fifth Step with Bill. And Bill often talked > over his depressions with Earle." > > "In a search for serenity Earle studied and > practiced many forms of religion: Hinduism, > Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancestor > worship." > > GFC > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5564. . . . . . . . . . . . Rowland or Roland Hazard? From: Michael F. Margetis . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 12:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi all, I see Rowland Hazard's name spelled as "Roland" in many seemingly authoritative documents. Even Dr. Jung's letter to Bill he spells it "Roland". (Bill spells it "Rowland") Which is correct? Thanks, Mike Margetis Brunswick, Maryland - - - - From Glenn C., the moderator: The three most important works on this topic are all based on a careful study of the Hazard Family papers which are archived at the Rhode Island Historical Society in Providence. Cora Finch's article also draws on material in the Yale Collection of American Literature at the Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library. These letters, cancelled checks, and so on, show that the family spelled the name "Rowland Hazard," nickname "Roy." ____________________ Richard M. Dubiel, "The Road to Fellowship: The Role of the Emmanuel Movement and the Jacoby Club in the Development of Alcoholics Anonymous" http://hindsfoot.org/kDub1.html http://hindsfoot.org/kDub2.html ____________________ Amy Colwell Bluhm, Ph.D., "Verification of C. G. Jung’s analysis of Rowland Hazard and the history of Alcoholics Anonymous" in the American Psychological Association's journal History of Psychology in November 2006. ____________________ Cora Finch, Stellar Fire: Carl Jung, a New England Family, and the Risks of Anecdote http://www.stellarfire.org/ ____________________ ROWLAND HAZARD WENT TO CARL JUNG FOR PSYCHOANALYSIS IN 1926, NOT 1931 Bill W. thought that Rowland had gone to see Carl Jung in 1931, but Richard Dubiel showed (from letters in the Hazard family papers) that there was no time in 1931 when Rowland could have engaged in a long psychoanalysis by Carl Jung in Switzerland. Subsequently, Bluhm and Finch, working independently, discovered in the Hazard family papers letters (including one from Rowland Hazard himself, enthusiastically describing how well his psychoanalysis by Jung was progessing) which made it clear that it was 1926 when Rowland was psychoanalyzed by Jung. The following is taken from Cora Finch's article: - - - - [In early 1926] Rowland and Helen Hazard had been on vacation in Bermuda with Rowland's sister and her husband. Rowland apparently lost control of his drinking, an argument developed, and Helen sent him home by himself.26 The letters are vague, but there is an implication that the crisis was precipitated by a revelation of infidelity on Rowland's part. Helen cabled Leonard asking him to meet Rowland in New York when he arrived on 25 March and take him to Dr. Riggs' sanitarium in Stockbridge, Massachusetts.27 After listening to Rowland's side of the story, Leonard suspected that the marital problems were more prominent than the drinking. He encouraged Rowland and Helen to consider a different plan. In a letter from Bermuda, Helen wrote, "I agree with you that Dr. Riggs does not seem to have had the ability to help Roy to help himself."28 Helen returned in early April, and Leonard continued to meet with each of them, separately. They agreed that going to Europe to see Dr. Jung together would be the best thing. George Porter, an old friend of Rowland, supported Leonard's campaign of persuasion.29 Rowland and George were in the same class at Yale, and George was an usher in Rowland's wedding. George Porter was a former patient and active supporter of Jung. Jung's popularity with wealthy Americans had begun with his treatment of Porter's friend, Medill McCormick, in 1908. By 17 April 1926, Rowland and Helen were on a steamer bound for Europe. After short stops in London, Paris and Brussels, they arrived in Zurich 6 May. A letter from Rowland to Leonard, dated only "May 15,"30 is written on the stationary of the Dolder Grand Hotel of Zurich. Details in that letter match closely those of a letter from Jung to Leonard dated May 16th, 1926 ("Hazard and his wife are here").31 Both letters indicate that Rowland had begun work with Jung, and Helen with Jung's assistant, Toni Wolff. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ROWLAND HAZARD'S MAY 1926 LETTER DESCRIBING HIS SESSIONS CURRENTLY GOING ON WITH CARL JUNG] "I think we get along splendidly. The first day he saw me, J. asked for dreams. That night I produced three corkers — He read them and remarked, "these are fine, fine — but for God's sake don't dream any more" We've been at work interpreting them and it all seems most fascinating and logical to me." "Old boy, this is the dope for me, I'm sure. Thank God for it, and for you for sending me here." 32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On 24 June 1926, Rowland's bank account showed an expense of $5,002.50, "to cover charge put through by F.L. & T. Co. a/c sum cabled to RH on his request." It is itemized to "travel."33 The equivalent in today's dollars would be more than $50,000. Some of the money would have been needed for hotel expenses and meals, but even the Hazards could not have spent very much of it on travel. Most of the money was presumably needed to cover Jung's fees. The New York Times social notes column of 24 July 1926 included a mention that "Mr. and Mrs. Rowland Hazard of Peace Dale, RI are at the Ritz-Carlton." By 2 August, Rowland was back in Peace Dale. He told Aunt Caroline about his analysis and showed her the drawings he had made ("The drawings are quite astonishing, symbolical things — Roy seems well and vigorous").34 NOTES 27. Rowland had stayed at the sanitarium during the summer of 1925 and visited Dr. Riggs about once a month through the end of that year, and at least once in 1926 (bank account ledger, Rhode Island Historical Society). Austen Fox Riggs, according to John M. Hadley in his Clinical and Counseling Psychology (New York: Knopf, 1958), "was eminently successful in using methods of reeducation and environmental control. He was opposed to psychoanalytic theory although he recognized the significance of early experiences in the development of psychoneuroses." p 216 28. Helen Hazard to Leonard Bacon, dated only "Friday," (apparently 26 March 1926, based on the contents), "Hazard Family" folder, Beinecke Library 29. Leonard Bacon to Patty Bacon, 2 April 1926, Beinecke Library 30. Rowland Hazard to Leonard Bacon, 15 May, Bacon papers, "Hazard Family" folder, Beinecke Library 31. Carl Gustaf Jung to Leonard Bacon, 16 May 1926, Bacon papers, Beinecke Library 32. Rowland Hazard to Leonard Bacon, Ibid. 33. Rowland Hazard III bank account ledger, RIHS 24. Caroline Hazard to Leonard Bacon, Beinecke Library IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5565. . . . . . . . . . . . Father Martin dies From: aadavidi . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 12:38:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/st ory/\ 03-09-2009/0004985249&EDATE= [4] The Rev. Joseph C. Martin, Leading Authority on Alcoholism and Addiction Treatment, Dies at 84 Catholic Priest Co-Founded Father Martin's Ashley Treatment Center in Maryland HAVRE DE GRACE, Md., March 9 /PRNewswire/ -- The Rev. Joseph C. Martin, S.S., noted authority and lecturer on alcoholism who co-founded Father Martin's Ashley, an addiction treatment center in Havre de Grace, MD, died today at his home in Havre de Grace. He was 84. Best known for his lectures on alcoholism as a disease, delivered to alcoholics and their families with his charismatic style and sense of humor, Fr. Martin is credited with saving the lives of thousands of alcoholics and addicts. While he retired from active management in 2003, he continued to lecture at Father Martin's Ashley, addressing patients as recently as November 2008. "Today, the entire treatment community mourns the loss of an icon," said the Rev. Mark Hushen, president and chief executive officer of Father Martin's Ashley. "The death of Father Martin marks the end of an era. "His world renowned 'Chalk Talk on Alcohol' changed the lives of thousands of recovering alcoholics," Hushen said. "His humor and spirituality infused his teachings with hope. He believed in the innate dignity of the human person and founded Father Martin's Ashley as an oasis where alcoholics and addicts could heal." Fr. Martin's "Chalk Talk on Alcohol" lecture, which began: "I'm Joe Martin, and I'm an alcoholic," and more than 40 motivational films, are legendary. His films, which have been translated into multiple languages, continue to be used at treatment centers around the world, in hospitals, substance abuse programs, industry, and most branches of the U.S. government. He is the author of several publications, including Chalk Talks on Alcohol, published by Harper & Row in 1982, which is still in print. Fr. Martin and Father Martin's Ashley co-founder Mae Abraham raised funds to buy and renovate Oakington, the estate owned by the widow of U.S. Senator Millard Tydings located on the Chesapeake Bay near Havre de Grace. The center, which opened in 1983, has since provided treatment to more than 40,000 people suffering from the disease of addiction and has provided program services to their families. Two years after Father Martin's Ashley opened its doors, Forbes magazine ranked it as one of the top ten addiction treatment facilities in the country. Today, patients come from the East Coast and across the U.S. to the 85-bed facility, which has a reputation for treating alcohol and drug addiction and relapse with respect for the dignity of each individual who enters its doors. In 1972, the U.S. Navy filmed Martin's "The Blackboard Talk," which they then dubbed "The Chalk Talk." It became known throughout the U.S. military and established Fr. Martin as a recognized leader in the addiction treatment field. In 1991, Fr. Martin was invited by Pope John Paul II to participate in the Vatican's International Conference on Drugs and Alcohol. He made four trips to Russia under the auspices of the International Institute on Alcohol Education and Training, and also traveled to Switzerland and Poland to speak to Alcoholics Anonymous groups as well as to addiction counselors in training. Fr. Martin's honors and awards include the Andrew White Medal from Loyola College, Baltimore, for his contributions to the general welfare of the citizenry of Maryland; Rutgers University's Summer School of Alcohol Studies' Distinguished Service Award (1988); and Norman Vincent Peale Award (1992). Born the fourth of seven children in Baltimore on October 12, 1924, Fr. Martin graduated from Loyola High School in 1942, where he was valedictorian. He then attended Loyola College (1942-44). He studied for the priesthood at St. Mary's Seminary and St. Mary's Roland Park in Baltimore (1944-48), and was ordained a priest of the Society of Saint Sulpice, whose mission is to train and educate seminarians, in 1948. Fr. Martin held teaching positions at St. Joseph's College in Mountain View, CA (1948-56) and St. Charles College, Catonsville, MD (1956-59). In 1958, Fr. Martin began his recovery from alcoholism. Following treatment, he worked as a lecturer and educator in the Division of Alcohol Control for the state of Maryland prior to founding Father Martin's Ashley. "As Father Martin passes through death to life, his legacy lives on at Ashley as we continue his mission of hope and healing," said Fr. Hushen. "Truly, the world is a better place for his having been here." Fr. Martin is survived by Mae and Tommy Abraham, with whom he lived for more than 30 years, siblings Dorothy, Frances, and Edward; and numerous nieces, nephews, and their children. The viewing will be held on Thursday, March 12, from 1 pm to 9 pm at St. Mary's Seminary in Baltimore. Fr. Martin's Mass of Celebration of the Resurrection will be held on Friday, March 13 at 10 am at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Cathedral Street, Baltimore, Maryland. Interment will be private. Expressions of remembrance may be e-mailed to ashley.marketing@fmashley.com or mailed to Father Martin Remembrance, Father Martin's Ashley, 800 Tydings Lane, Havre de Grace, MD 21078. They will be posted on the Father Martin's Ashley Web site at http://www.fathermartinsashley.org In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to Father Martin's Ashley treatment center, 800 Tydings Lane, Havre de Grace, MD 21078 or to The Associated Sulpicians of the U.S., 5408 Roland Avenue, Baltimore, MD 21210. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5566. . . . . . . . . . . . Father Joseph Martin''s passing From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 8:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: "John Blair" (jblair at wmis.net) http://www.fathermartinsashley.org/ In remembrance of Father Martin... Father Joseph C. Martin, S.S. - October 12, 1924 - March 9, 2009. "My name is Joe Martin, and I'm an alcoholic." Father Martin first uttered this statement in 1958, when he was in treatment for alcoholism at the Guest House, what would prove to be a refuge for him from his drinking and a turning point in his life. His personal journey in recovery prompted a celebrated career in which his only aim was to ease the suffering of individuals and families, around the world, affected by addiction. He was born on October 12, 1924 in Baltimore, Maryland . He quickly developed a fondness for religion and faith. People fondly recall his special story-telling ability and wonderful sense of humor. In 1942, Father Martin graduated from Loyola College and entered St. Mary's seminary. He was ordained a priest in 1948 and underwent rigorous training to become a Sulpician, a highly regarded teaching society within the Catholic Church. After losing this coveted distinction as a result of his drinking, only in sobriety did he regain this title. Father Martin taught minor seminarians and fulfilled several teaching roles within the church. It was very evident that he possessed a special ability to educate but his drinking became very troublesome and he was eventually directed to seek help at the Guest House. Father Martin frequently cited the tremendous impact his mentor Austin Ripley had on his journey in recovery. Many of Father Martin's teachings originated in concepts he learned while at the Guest House. His enthusiasm for sobriety coupled with his passion for teaching evolved into an unending quest to ease the suffering of individuals and families affected by addiction. In his career, spanning more than 35 years, Father Martin was catapulted into international acclaim as a prized speaker and educator on addiction and recovery thru the Twelve Steps. He founded Kelly Productions in 1972 and used it as a platform to capture the minds and hearts of millions of people. Father Martin's message is no less relevant today than in 1972. He will continue to inspire love, service, helpfulness to others, and recovery through the use of his films, audio lectures, and books. In his last year, he shared his vision that he can be remembered so that the still suffering individual affected by addiction might benefit from his God-inspired message of hope. VIEWING: Thursday, March 12th, 2009 From 1p-9p St. Mary's Seminary Laubacher Hall 5400 Roland Avenue Baltimore, MD 21210 FUNERAL MASS: Friday, March 13th, 2009 10 am The Basilica of the National Shrine of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary 409 Cathedral Street Baltimore, MD 21201 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5567. . . . . . . . . . . . Hear Father Martin speak on YouTube From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 9:34:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: "John Blair" (jblair at wmis.net) Father Joe Martin's Channel on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/fatherjoemartin IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5568. . . . . . . . . . . . Archival repositories From: kauaihulahips . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 3:11:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII What A.A. Areas at present have free-standing repositories for their archives? Could people from some of these already existing archival repositories send me information about what they have for their Area? For example, what is the square footage? how much is the rent? utilities? area annual budget/beakdown? What does the facility look like? Any tips for our new area standing chair and our new archivist? (kauaihulahips at yahoo.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5569. . . . . . . . . . . . Dick Perez from the Akron Area From: juan.aa98 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 12:47:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Where can I find the full story on Dick Perez from the Akron Area? What books or documents are there which would mention Dick Perez or talk about his life in AA? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5570. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/8/2009 7:56:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Thank you for this, it has long been my belief that Bill W's spirituality is best defined as New Age Spirituality, rather than fundamentalist Christian spirituality. This information helps to confirm my suspicions that Bill was actually very eclectic in his approach to spirituality and might even been seen as a heretic by more traditional religious sects and denominations. Sincerely, Jim F. - - - - From the moderator: and along this same line, one of the first prominent Protestant theologians to give approval to the new A.A. movement was HARRY EMERSON FOSDICK, the author of the famous anti-fundamentalist sermon "SHALL THE FUNDAMENTALISTS WIN?" Pass It On page 201: "Dr. Harry Emerson Fosdick, the highly respected minister of the Riverside Church, warmly approved an advance copy [of the Big Book] and promised to review the book when it was published." Harry Emerson Fosdick from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Emerson_Fosdick Fosdick was the most prominent liberal ... minister of the early 20th Century .... Fosdick became a central figure in the conflict between fundamentalist and liberal forces within American Protestantism in the 1920s and 1930s. While at First Presbyterian Church, on May 21, 1922, he delivered his famous sermon “Shall the Fundamentalists Win?” in which he defended the modernist position. In that sermon, he presented the Bible as a record of the unfolding of God’s will, not as the literal Word of God. He saw the history of Christianity as one of development, progress, and gradual change. To the fundamentalists, this was rank apostasy, and the battle lines were drawn. The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church, U.S.A. (Northern) in 1923 charged his local presbytery to conduct an investigation of his views .... Fosdick escaped probable censure at a formal trial by the 1924 General Assembly by resigning from the pulpit in 1924. He was immediately hired as pastor of a Baptist church whose most famous member was John D. Rockefeller, Jr., who then funded the Riverside Church in Manhattan's Morningside Heights area overlooking the Hudson River, where Fosdick became pastor as soon as the doors opened in October 1930. Rockefeller had funded the nation-wide distribution of "Shall the Fundamentalists Win?" although with a more cautious title, "The New Knowledge and the Christian Faith." [Fosdick] is also the author of the hymn, "God of Grace and God of Glory." Fosdick's book A Guide to Understanding the Bible traces the beliefs of the people who wrote the Bible, from the ancient beliefs of the Hebrews, which he regarded as practically pagan, to the faith and hopes of the New Testament writers. His brother, Raymond Fosdick, was essentially in charge of philanthropy for John D. Rockefeller, Jr. Fosdick reviewed the first edition of Alcoholics Anonymous in 1939, giving it his approval. - - - - Harry Emerson Fosdick’s famous anti-fundamentalist sermon (1922): "SHALL THE FUNDAMENTALISTS WIN?" Full text of the sermon given at http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5070/ - - - - --- On Thu, 3/5/09, mdingle76 wrote: From: mdingle76 Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Bill Wilson's meditation practices and guided meditation To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 3:59 PM One man who influenced Bill Wilson greatly was Gerald Heard. Gerald was the man who introduced Bill to Aldous Huxley. I suspect that Gene Exman (the religious editor over at Harper that Bill visited with the first 2 chapters of the Big Book)introduced Bill to Gerald. Anyway, Bill (and Lois) first visited Heard on a trip to California in 1941. Heard had been practicing yoga and earnestly studying the Scriptures of many of the world's great religions. Heard wrote many books on the subject of God, religion and also UFO's (a subject that Bill was very interested in and would talk to Heard about at lengths). One of Heard's books even made it into Dr. Bob's library â” "A Preface to Prayer." Tom Powers often said that Heard was one of Bill's sponsors. Heard was particularly influenced by Sri Ramakrishna and Heard donated his Monastery, Trabucco Canyon, to the Vedanta Society of Southern California, to be run by Swami Prabhavananda. You can also read Gerald Heard's article in the AA Grapevine called "The Search for Ecstasy." He also wrote articles about AA published in sources outside the Grapevine. Gerald (and Dr. Cohen) oversaw the LSD sessions that both Tom and Bill experienced. (It was Tom and Bill who were sent to California on AA Headquarters business to get AA out on the big screen â” a story for a different day.) Matt D. ____________ _________ _________ FROM THE MODERATOR: WIKIPEDIA SAYS http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Gerald_Heard "Henry Fitzgerald Heard commonly called Gerald Heard (October 6, 1889 - August 14, 1971) was a historian, science writer, educator, and philosopher. He wrote many articles and over 35 books. Heard was a guide and mentor to numerous well-known Americans, including Clare Boothe Luce and Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, in the 1950s and 1960s." - - - - Message 5228 from ArtSheehan@msn. com (ArtSheehan at msn.com) British radio commentator Gerald Heard introduced Bill W to Aldous Huxley and British psychiatrists Humphrey Osmond and Abram Hoffer. Bill joined with Heard and Huxley and first took LSD in California on August 29, 1956. Among those invited to experiment with LSD (and who accepted) were Nell Wing, Father Ed Dowling, Sam Shoemaker and Lois Wilson. Marty M and other AA members participated in New York (under medical supervision by a psychiatrist from Roosevelt Hospital). - - - - Message 4806 from jlobdell54@hotmail. com (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) I have recently seen on a couple of AA-related history sites a statement that H. F. Heard was a pen-name for Aldous Huxley. In fact H. F. Heard was Henry FitzGerald Heard (1889-1971) who also wrote as Gerald Heard. He was a friend of Aldous Huxley (and of Bill Wilson) but he certainly was not Aldous Huxley. ____________ _________ _________ MATT D. IS RESPONDING TO MESSAGE 5559 from (Baileygc23 at aol.com) > Bill W and his long time problems with > depression and other things brings to mind his > interactions with Dr Earle and Dr Earle's > comments on their relationship, plus > Dr Earle and his search for serenity in Asia. > > Since Dr Earle's attempt to find solace in > Eastern ideas had Bill W's interest, it could > add another aspect to Bill W as well as > Dr Earle's efforts at meditation practices. > > George > > - - - - > > From the moderator, for more about > Dr. Earle M., whom George refers to, see: > > http://silkworth. net/aabiography/ earlem.html > > Biography: "Physician Heal Thyself!" > Dr. Earle M., San Francisco Bay Area, CA. > (p. 393 in 2nd edition, p. 345 in 3rd > edition, p. 301 in the 4th edition.) > > "During his first year in A.A. he went to New > York and met Bill W. They became very close > and talked frequently both on the phone and > in person. He frequently visited Bill at his > home, Stepping Stones. He called Bill one > of his sponsors, and said there was hardly a > topic they did not discuss in detail. He took > a Fifth Step with Bill. And Bill often talked > over his depressions with Earle." > > "In a search for serenity Earle studied and > practiced many forms of religion: Hinduism, > Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancestor > worship." > > GFC > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5571. . . . . . . . . . . . Icky the Dynamite man From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 6:34:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm trying to get more info on Icky From Houston: Page 80 AACOA (the dynamite man). What's his date of sobriety, home group, etc., does anyone know? I have a 1st. edit. Stools & Bottles signed by Ed Webster and inscribed to Icky, dated 1961. The gentleman I purchased it from told me he got it in Houston. I'd like to know more about Icky so that I can pretend to be knowledgeable when the book is displayed. Thank You, Shakey Mike Gwirtz IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5572. . . . . . . . . . . . Anyone know anything about the first prison group? From: priscilla_semmens . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 10:37:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The first prison AA Group, we are told, was formed at San Quentin. Who formed it? When was it formed? Why was it formed? etc. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5573. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation From: bob gordon . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2009 3:40:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Here's the relevant part of Fosdick's review: The core of their whole procedure is religious. They are convinced that for the hopeless alcoholic there is only one way out - the expulsion of his obsession by a Power greater than himself. Let it be said at once that there is nothing partisan or sectarian about this religious experience. Agnostics and atheists, along with Catholics, Jews and Protestants, tell their story of discovering the Power Greater Than Themselves. "WHO ARE YOU TO SAY THAT THERE IS N0 GOD," one atheist in this group heard a voice say when, hospitalized for alcoholism, he faced the utter hopelessness of his condition. Nowhere is the tolerance and open-mindedness of the book more evident than in its treatment of this central matter on which the cure of all these men and women has depended. They are not partisans of any particular form of organized religion, although they strongly recommend that some religious fellowship be found by their participants. By religion they mean an experience which they personally know and which has saved them from their slavery, when psychiatry and medicine had failed They agree that each man must have his own way of conceiving God, but of God Himself they are utterly sure, and their stories of victory in consequence are a notable addition to William James' "Varieties of Religious Experience." Although the book has the accent of reality and is written with unusual intelligence and skill, humor and modesty mitigating what could easily have been a strident and harrowing tale. - Harry Emerson Fosdick - - - - On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:56 AM, James Flynn wrote: > Thank you for this, it has long been my > belief that Bill W's spirituality is best > defined as New Age Spirituality, rather than > fundamentalist Christian spirituality. > > This information helps to confirm my > suspicions that Bill was actually very > eclectic in his approach to spirituality > and might even been seen as a heretic by > more traditional religious sects and > denominations. > > Sincerely, Jim F. > > - - - - > > From the moderator: and along this same > line, one of the first prominent Protestant > theologians to give approval to the new > A.A. movement was HARRY EMERSON FOSDICK, > the author of the famous anti-fundamentalist > sermon "SHALL THE FUNDAMENTALISTS WIN?" > > Pass It On page 201: "Dr. Harry Emerson > Fosdick, the highly respected minister of > the Riverside Church, warmly approved an > advance copy [of the Big Book] and promised > to review the book when it was published." > > Harry Emerson Fosdick from Wikipedia: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Emerson_Fosdick > > Fosdick was the most prominent liberal ... > minister of the early 20th Century .... > Fosdick became a central figure in the > conflict between fundamentalist and liberal > forces within American Protestantism in the > 1920s and 1930s. While at First Presbyterian > Church, on May 21, 1922, he delivered his > famous sermon “Shall the Fundamentalists Win?” > in which he defended the modernist position. > In that sermon, he presented the Bible as a > record of the unfolding of God’s will, not as > the literal Word of God. He saw the history > of Christianity as one of development, > progress, and gradual change. To the > fundamentalists, this was rank apostasy, > and the battle lines were drawn. > > The General Assembly of the Presbyterian > Church, U.S.A. (Northern) in 1923 charged his > local presbytery to conduct an investigation > of his views .... Fosdick escaped probable > censure at a formal trial by the 1924 General > Assembly by resigning from the pulpit in 1924. > He was immediately hired as pastor of a Baptist > church whose most famous member was John D. > Rockefeller, Jr., who then funded the Riverside > Church in Manhattan's Morningside Heights area > overlooking the Hudson River, where Fosdick > became pastor as soon as the doors opened in > October 1930. > > Rockefeller had funded the nation-wide > distribution of "Shall the Fundamentalists Win?" > although with a more cautious title, "The New > Knowledge and the Christian Faith." > > [Fosdick] is also the author of the hymn, > "God of Grace and God of Glory." > > Fosdick's book A Guide to Understanding the > Bible traces the beliefs of the people who > wrote the Bible, from the ancient beliefs of > the Hebrews, which he regarded as practically > pagan, to the faith and hopes of the New > Testament writers. > > His brother, Raymond Fosdick, was essentially > in charge of philanthropy for John D. Rockefeller, > Jr. > > Fosdick reviewed the first edition of > Alcoholics Anonymous in 1939, giving it > his approval. > > - - - - > > Harry Emerson Fosdick’s famous > anti-fundamentalist sermon (1922): > > "SHALL THE FUNDAMENTALISTS WIN?" > > Full text of the sermon given at > http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5070/ > > - - - - > > > --- On Thu, 3/5/09, mdingle76 > > wrote: > > From: mdingle76 > > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Bill Wilson's meditation practices and > guided meditation > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 3:59 PM > > > One man who influenced Bill Wilson greatly was > Gerald Heard. Gerald was the man who introduced > Bill to Aldous Huxley. I suspect that Gene > Exman (the religious editor over at Harper > that Bill visited with the first 2 chapters > of the Big Book)introduced Bill to Gerald. > > Anyway, Bill (and Lois) first visited Heard on > a trip to California in 1941. Heard had been > practicing yoga and earnestly studying the > Scriptures of many of the world's great > religions. Heard wrote many books on the > subject of God, religion and also UFO's (a > subject that Bill was very interested in and > would talk to Heard about at lengths). One of > Heard's books even made it into Dr. Bob's > library — "A Preface to Prayer." > > Tom Powers often said that Heard was one of > Bill's sponsors. Heard was particularly > influenced by Sri Ramakrishna and Heard > donated his Monastery, Trabucco Canyon, to > the Vedanta Society of Southern California, > to be run by Swami Prabhavananda. > > You can also read Gerald Heard's article in the > AA Grapevine called "The Search for Ecstasy." > He also wrote articles about AA published in > sources outside the Grapevine. > > Gerald (and Dr. Cohen) oversaw the LSD > sessions that both Tom and Bill experienced. > (It was Tom and Bill who were sent to > California on AA Headquarters business to > get AA out on the big screen — a story for > a different day.) > > Matt D. > > ____________ _________ _________ > > FROM THE MODERATOR: WIKIPEDIA SAYS > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Gerald_Heard > > "Henry Fitzgerald Heard commonly called Gerald > Heard (October 6, 1889 - August 14, 1971) was > a historian, science writer, educator, and > philosopher. He wrote many articles and over > 35 books. Heard was a guide and mentor to > numerous well-known Americans, including > Clare Boothe Luce and Bill Wilson, co-founder > of Alcoholics Anonymous, in the 1950s and > 1960s." > > - - - - > > Message 5228 from ArtSheehan@msn. com > (ArtSheehan at msn.com) > > British radio commentator Gerald Heard > introduced Bill W to Aldous Huxley and > British psychiatrists Humphrey Osmond and > Abram Hoffer. > > Bill joined with Heard and Huxley and first > took LSD in California on August 29, 1956. > > Among those invited to experiment with LSD > (and who accepted) were Nell Wing, Father > Ed Dowling, Sam Shoemaker and Lois Wilson. > Marty M and other AA members participated in > New York (under medical supervision by a > psychiatrist from Roosevelt Hospital). > > - - - - > > Message 4806 from jlobdell54@hotmail. com > (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) > > I have recently seen on a couple of AA-related > history sites a statement that H. F. Heard was > a pen-name for Aldous Huxley. > > In fact H. F. Heard was Henry FitzGerald Heard > (1889-1971) who also wrote as Gerald Heard. > > He was a friend of Aldous Huxley (and of Bill > Wilson) but he certainly was not Aldous > Huxley. > ____________ _________ _________ > > MATT D. IS RESPONDING TO MESSAGE 5559 from > (Baileygc23 at aol.com) > > > Bill W and his long time problems with > > depression and other things brings to mind his > > interactions with Dr Earle and Dr Earle's > > comments on their relationship, plus > > Dr Earle and his search for serenity in Asia. > > > > Since Dr Earle's attempt to find solace in > > Eastern ideas had Bill W's interest, it could > > add another aspect to Bill W as well as > > Dr Earle's efforts at meditation practices. > > > > George > > > > - - - - > > > > From the moderator, for more about > > Dr. Earle M., whom George refers to, see: > > > > http://silkworth. net/aabiography/ earlem.html > > > > Biography: "Physician Heal Thyself!" > > Dr. Earle M., San Francisco Bay Area, CA. > > (p. 393 in 2nd edition, p. 345 in 3rd > > edition, p. 301 in the 4th edition.) > > > > "During his first year in A.A. he went to New > > York and met Bill W. They became very close > > and talked frequently both on the phone and > > in person. He frequently visited Bill at his > > home, Stepping Stones. He called Bill one > > of his sponsors, and said there was hardly a > > topic they did not discuss in detail. He took > > a Fifth Step with Bill. And Bill often talked > > over his depressions with Earle." > > > > "In a search for serenity Earle studied and > > practiced many forms of religion: Hinduism, > > Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancestor > > worship." > > > > GFC > > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5574. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Icky the Dynamite man From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2009 11:26:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hey Mike E. D. "Icky" Sheridan was the Panel 1 Delegate from the Houston, Texas Area in 1951 (he resided at 5020 Griggs Rd) and served on the Conference Agenda Committee. Icky later moved to Dallas, Texas (he resided at 4569 Lorraine Ave) and became the first Class B Trustee from Texas serving from 1955 to 1959. He replaced Earl Treat and was designated as "Second V.P." Records from GSO report him as passing away on 9/23/1963. I can't pin down the date/year when he moved from Houston to Dallas. The 1957 final Conference report noted that: "Delegates from Oregon, Northern Minnesota, Quebec (Canada), Northeast Texas and South Florida participated in a provocative panel session on Clubhouses under the chairmanship of Icky S, a member of the Board of Trustees. Emphasizing the importance of separating the functions of clubs and groups, Icky summed up the general feeling of the participants by declaring that, in AA, when you put your heart rather than your brains into a project, "You can go a long, long, way." In 1958 Icky was elected as Vice Chairman of the General Service Board. The 1958 final Conference report contained a "GSO Policy Committee" report written by Icky who also served then as chairman of the committee. Icky is discussed by Bill W on page 80 in AA Comes of Age: "When I think of explosions I always think of my friend Icky. Down in Houston, Texas, they call him the "Dynamite Man." Icky is an expert on explosives, on demolition. He was in the rear of the Russian retreat blowing up bridges during the war. After the war he started to ply his trade again, and I guess he fell into the same error that a poor fellow in London did the other day. This alcoholic Londoner turned up before a magistrate. He had been picked up stiff drunk. His bottle was empty. The magistrate said, "Did you drink it all," "Oh, yes." "Why did you drink it all," "Because I lost the cork." Down there in Houston, it must have been one of those days when our friend Icky lost his cork. Icky was commissioned to blow up a certain pier in Houston Harbor, and he blew up the wrong one! There is a passing reference to Icky S in Bob P's "unofficial AA history" where he writes: "Esther E. took over as leader of the Houston group in 1942, and Hortense L. succeeded her when she moved to Dallas. The group met in the basement of the Ambassador Hotel in 1941. During the war years it met in other places: the M.& M. Building, Franklin St., Milam St., Dooley St., and finally beginning in 1946 at 3511 Travis St. where it remained. In early 1949, the majority of the Travis St. group broke away to form the Montrose Group. Among those that remained were Ed H., Angus McL., Claire W., Anna D., Mildred C., and Icky S." On July 1, 1960 Icky Chaired a session at the 25th Anniversary Convention at Long Beach, California that was titled "12 Speakers on the 12 Steps." Cheers Arthur PS - I have a 1954 photo of Icky which I'll send you by separate email. -----Original Message----- From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shakey1aa@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:34 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Cc: Shakey1aa@aol.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Icky the Dynamite man I'm trying to get more info on Icky From Houston: Page 80 AACOA (the dynamite man). What's his date of sobriety, home group, etc., does anyone know? I have a 1st. edit. Stools & Bottles signed by Ed Webster and inscribed to Icky, dated 1961. The gentleman I purchased it from told me he got it in Houston. I'd like to know more about Icky so that I can pretend to be knowledgeable when the book is displayed. Thank You, Shakey Mike Gwirtz IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5575. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dick Perez from the Akron Area From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2009 10:32:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Juan, I did some brief interviews of Dick back in the mid-1970s. Because of the anonymity tradition and the fact that my dissertation/book "Not-God" was a public document, those few references are cited in the endnotes as "Dick P." and (usually) the date of our conversation. Happy hunting. I will appreciate it if you will share with me (and the group) the results of your efforts. In retrospect, I wish I had said more about Dick's self-consciousness about being Hispanic and fearing that he would not be accepted in AA. Dick told me that even though many used slang, un-p.c. nicknames (e.g. "Spic") in referring to him, everyone in AA was always helpful with rides to and from meetings, etc. I hope you can learn more and tell Dick P.'s story: I remember it as vivid testimony not so much to the "tolerance" of early AA, but as deep evidence of the genuine spirituality of many/most of the early members in the Akron/Cleveland area. And, of course, of Dick's own courage and craving for sobriety. ernie kurtz - - - - On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:47 AM, juan.aa98 wrote: > Where can I find the full story on Dick Perez > from the Akron Area? > > What books or documents are there which would > mention Dick Perez or talk about his life in AA? > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5576. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dick Perez from the Akron Area From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2009 7:12:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dick Perez was from Cleveland and as far as I know was the first person to translate the Big Book into Spanish. Dick was Mexican and according to Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers was in this country illegally and helped carry the message back to Mexico. I met Dick once back in 1982 when he attended Lois W.'s long-termer's party. --- On Mon, 3/9/09, juan.aa98 wrote: From: juan.aa98 Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Dick Perez from the Akron Area To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 12:47 AM Where can I find the full story on Dick Perez from the Akron Area? What books or documents are there which would mention Dick Perez or talk about his life in AA? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5577. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Mottos on old anniversary chips From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/28/2009 4:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Chips/medallions/coins/doubloons/tokens have not been produced by A.A., so whatever is put on them is a manufacturers' decision. There are no official A.A. chips, so any changes were effected by people outside of the Fellowship, and, hence, have very little to do with it. "To thine own self be true is from Shakespeare," for that matter. Tommy H in Baton Rouge - - - - From: "Ben Humphreys" (blhump272 at sctv.coop) I go back to 1975 and my first on says recovery, service and unity. It may be where the group bought the chips. All my early ones came from Bright Star. - - - - From: James Flynn (jdf10487 at yahoo.com) Many of mine say "To Thine Own Self Be True" and "Unity, Service, Recovery" - - - - Original message #5552 from (il22993us at yahoo.com) My father received his first chip sometime in the late 1960's or 70's. The chip says: "recover, serve, unite" rather than "recovery, service, unity" (like the chips we give out today). His 2nd year chip has what we have now. Does anyone know what year the words changed? Was there a pattern here? Thanks! Carole, DOS: 07-03-2006 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5578. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature From: stockholmfellowship . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2009 4:54:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The AA Grapevine is discussed in the latest issue of Box 459, including that the Grapevine is self-supporting: "In contrast to G.S.O., which receives group contributions to support group services, the Grapevine does not accept contributions from individuals or groups, and accepts donations only for a fund set up to provide subscrip- tions for inmates or other A.A.s who cannot afford the cost. Its financial support comes entirely from sales of the magazine and related materials, such as The Language of the Heart—the collected Grapevine writings of Bill W." Though, the question remains, does Bill W's estate receives royalties from "The Language of the Heart" or other writings of the Grapevine? Or, rather, does anyone receive any royalties from the Grapevine? To read the lastest Box 459, you can download it at http://ddslinks.aaws.org/default.aspx?p=BOX459&e=FebMar09&l=en - - - - From: "bty934414" (normansobriety at btinternet.com) Who would pay to have the grapevine printed online ? from Norrie F. in Scotland - - - - From: John Barton (jax760 at yahoo.com) A Historical Fact: Profits from the sale of literature have been used since day one to support the work which includes operations and carrying the message. This goes back to the very first profits on the big book that supported the foundation office and the creation of phamplets (even before the shareholders in the book got their money back). John B P.S. The removal of the staples is so the magazine can be brought into the prisons (where it is needed). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5579. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Anyone know anything about the first prison group? From: Phil McG . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2009 1:30:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII AA meetings in prisons were first started in 1941 by CT Duffy, the Warden at San Quentin. Check out his book: SAN QUENTIN, The Story of a Prison by C T Duffy (1951). You can purchase it on-line and really good libraries still carry it. Here are a couple of web sites that briefly discuss the history: http://www.handinorcal.org/AboutPage/About.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Quentin_State_Prison Phil - - - - From: "Lee Carroll, CPA" (FriendLeeCPA at msn.com) Warden Clinton Duffy spoke at the First International AA Conference in Cleveland, July 29, 1950. In it he shares that: - he had been watching AA on the street - San Quentin was in the process of inititating a new type of rehabilitation -he realized punishment was not enough. - First meeting at SQ was in 1942 - Twenty inmates and several outside guests, many of whom had never been behind such walls before and were awed by the surroundings. - Most inmates hadn't seen a woman or civilian clothes for a long time. - Duffy says the tension was broken when an outside guest, whose name he couldn't remember ("...and wouldn't mention if I could,") went up to the podium 'with a smile on his face that radiated an air of friendliness - I'll never forget his opening words: "Fellows," he said, looking out over the stiff audience, "before we start talking about AA I have a confession to make, I want to tell you that, but for the grace of a power greater than myself I would be sitting out there with you today listening to someone else make this speech." - Duffy quotes more that I wont write out, but he says the tension was eased and it became a podium participation mtng. - Skeptics had told Duffy that AA was a "useless fad," and that "SQ would go off louder than nitroglycerin if he allowed women AA's to mix with the inmates." - Not so said Duffy. There was never an "off color remark." - At the end of the first meeting, says Duffy one of the former skeptics chose the opportunity to assure him that AA at SQ would be a success. - SQ did make mistakes; a) issued diplomas for completing 12-step study course b) withheld AA from men who did not "appear" to be alcoholic c) exerted pressure on men "diagnosed" as alcoholic. Lee (805) 938-1981 - - - - From: "J. Lobdell" (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) On p. 59 of AA Today: a special publication by the AA Grapevine commemorating the 25th Anniversary of Alcoholics Anonymous (copyright 1960, 1988), Warden Clinton Duffy says (or writes), "When, in 1941, San Quentin pioneered the first Alcoholics Anonymous group behind any prison walls, I said, 'If the program will help one man, I want to start it.' In these eighteen years, hundreds have been helped." So, for a date, 1941 (probably later in the year as it isn't yet nineteen years when he's speaking), and for a founder, Warden Duffy. And as to the why, "If the program will help one man, I want to start it." - - - - From: kentedavis@aol.com (kentedavis at aol.com) There is a good report from the Northern California Council of Alcoholics Anonymous. It was this group that was instrumental in forming the group so this is about the best account of its beginnings. Kent D 8.8.88 - - - - From: Ernest Kurtz (kurtzern at umich.edu) Priscilla, I suggest you pass this question on to the AA archivist at the GSO in New York: there is a wealth of material there. ernie ************************************ Original message #5572 from (priscilla_semmens at yahoo.com) The first prison AA Group, we are told, was formed at San Quentin. Who formed it? When was it formed? Why was it formed? etc. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5580. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 7:37:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The first prison group was definitely not San Quentin! The Philadelphia Mother group was taking meetings into Philadelphia prisons two years before S. Q. and have continuously carried on that tradition. GSO in NY has told us that, even when substant- iated, they will not change this part of AA history in their publications. A member of the Archives committee of the local Intergroup asked them several years back. I also heard about another prison group about the same time (1940) in NY or NJ. Perhaps someone from those areas can provide more accurate information. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5581. . . . . . . . . . . . Archival Repositories and Hints for AA Archivists From: Mike Breedlove . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2009 6:31:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Greetings everyone, and especially kauaihulahips Thank you for those wonderful questions. I am certainly no authority on all (or even many) of the questions asked in kauaihulahips' email, but do have some information the Area One (Alabama-Northwest Florida) archives committee collected in a survey in 2006. The information is in tables format and is detailed below. Other area archives were contacted and graciously supplied the information detailed below. No personal information is shared. Any area archives committee that wishes to share more informa- tion, or to update the present information, (hint, hint) would you please forward that information to me at the email address of mikeb415@knology.net (mikeb415 at knology.net) If you wish to contact a specific archives or archives committee, you might wish to contact the AA Archives, located at the General Services Office. They may have the information you need. As a general policy, the AA Archives tends not to participate directly in forums such as this but the staff are more than willing to help any one who asks for help. Of course I am willing to share any information or knowledge that others have so freely shared with me. Just contact me at mikeb415@knology.net (mikeb415 at knology.net) The one overall comment to be hazarded is that any one looking to establish an archival repository of any kind needs to closely review the following. At the AA website, if you click on Resources for Local A.A. Archivists you can see links to the following really useful pieces of literature, all of which have very recently been updated: Archives Guidelines - MG-17 .pdf The direct link is http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/mg-17_archives.pdf (4 pages) The A.A. Archives - F-47 .pdf The direct link is http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/f-47_theaaarchives.pdf (2 pages) Oral Histories Kit .pdf - The direct links is http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/en_oralhistorieskit.pdf (18 pages) Many areas choose to conduct recorded oral history interviews with longtimers, to record their strength, hope, and experience for future generations. This kit contains tips, instructions, suggested questions, forms and templates, as well as a list of additional resources. Yours in service, Mike B. Area One Archivist (Like others in AA, I have some experience and formal training as a professional archivist) *************************************** Area # Archives facility and details Financial Support Archives Cmte? Archivist? Volume of Records Volunteers & Work *************************************** 01, Alabama- NW Florida 10 x 10 ft. somewhat climate controlled store room $2,100/year for rent for storage ($1,500) and supplies ($600). No foundation. Yes Yes 200 cubic ft., of which 30 cubic ft. are actual archives and 150 cubic ft. are special collections Just getting started, but we do work one afternoon every area assembly with one or two volunteers - - - - 06, Coastal North California Yes, at an AA Meeting facility, 8 x 20 room, with tape library $10,000/year, with $7200 for rent, 2100 for travel and conferences, 700 for supplies. No foundation Yes, also a tape librarian Yes 120-200 cf, including shelves lateral files, file cabinets shelves, reel-to-reel tapes, cassettes, etc. Volunteers work one/month Former delegate participates - - - - 10, Colorado Basement of a church in Denver, ca. 15 x 20 $600/year for rent and $600/year for operating expenses and the traveling displays are funded by Area. AA members contribute financially No foundation. Yes Yes 70 cf, including file cabinets and more Office open once a month for 2 hours, mainly the archives chair Lots of interviews with long timers - - - - 15, South Florida 3x4 cubical - a rental, climate controlled facility -- records are stored in banker boxes $580 annual for storage and copies, postage of our Committee minutes. Area 15 furnishes 1 night lodging each, at Area Quarterly for the Area Archives Chair and the Alternate. No foundation Yes No 10 cf, the minutes and business records of the Area Business meetings, and Ad-hoc committees. No - - - - 16, Georgia Yes, 20 x 30 area adjacent to area office Budget from Area of $2,932. Rent and utilities included in general area office expense No foundation Yes and Steering Cmte, & delegate helping Yes Not stated, Do have display cases Mainly the archivist - - - - 18, Idaho Yes, 2 rooms for storage, 20 x 20 and 20 x 25, and 1 for ref, exhibit, 25 x 15 All funding from Area, $1,200, and from donations. Travel is reimbursed at 0.30/mile No foundation Yes & delegate helping Yes Not stated. Do have 4 file cabinets. Yes, 6-7, and they do reference work - - - - 19, Northern Illinois Yes, 15 x 15 $500 - $800/yr No foundation Yes Yes 40-50 cf, many tapes & CDs Yes, but no details Yes yes 10 cf Interview of long timers - - - - 22, Northern Indiana No $100/yr. No foundation. - - - - 27, Louisiana Yes, 12 x 24 room $1,500/year from Area and selling of items No foundation Yes Yes 288 cubic ft., with archival supplies, shelving, etc. Do reference work, exhibits, and more - - - - 32, Michigan No None from Area, some from groups and individuals No foundation. No Yes 150 cf Mainly the archivist - - - - 38, Eastern Maryland Area rents 2 rooms, 200 sq ft each, for archives, in central service bldg Area pays for rent and other expenses. Budget of $1,200/yr. No foundation. Yes Yes 6 filing cabinets and a bit more [ca. 50 cf] 2nd room is used for processing, etc. Mainly the archivist - - - - 50, Western New York Yes, rent 12 x 20 room from Central Office $500 - $1.000, contributions from groups and individuals, Presently creating a budget. No Area support. No foundation Yes and a treasurer, & very active past delegates Yes Not stated Mainly the archivist - - - - 64, Central Tennessee (Murfreesboro) Yes, Yes, we have a free-standing building. It is 25 x 45, or 1,125 square feet, concrete block and brick, two rooms. Anonymity protected. [Also gave more info on district archives in Area 64] Total budget is about $70 per month for chair person's travel expenses and $500 per year for building, & appointed an archivist & historian . Going to give him $33 per month for traveling expenses. A contractor built it on his lot and is only charging the cost of construction. Purchasing the building one year at a time by Area 64. Pay it like rent, but will be paid for in 10 years. After paid off, probably will create a foundation at that time. Yes Yes Have eight four drawer filing cabinet, plus exhibit cases, and going to get acid-free boxes, etc. Groups, districts and events pay for traveling archives Front room with display cases and log in room; back room has desks, with strictly volunteer work force, webmaster does a lot of work (2 or 3 days a week from 10 until 3) and recruits well. - - - - 65, North Texas No $600/year for travel, etc., and groups and events often at least partially reimburse travel and display costs. No foundation. Yes No 20 cf Mainly the archivist - - - - 71, Virginia Office space of one room is rented (size not mentioned) Area pays for office expenses, archivist's travel and incidentals, and archives cmte travel and yearly archives open house (amount not mentioned). No foundation Yes Yes Not stated Yes, but no details - - - - 72, Western Washington Yes, 750 sq ft, shelving and containers used $700.00/qtr, $300.00/upkeep, and area pays travel No foundation Yes, cmte chair and Steering Cmte Yes Not stated Yes, but no details - - - - 93, Central California Yes, 800 sq ft, 2 room facility $400.00/month budget from Area, with extra money for travel. Have a storage room and exhibit room. No foundation Yes Yes 50 cubic ft. Yes, but no details - - - - Akron AA Archives Archives is in Intergroup offices an do have a collection policy Self supporting, but does not say how. No foundation (as a part of Intergroup and not separately incorporated, a foundation would violate the traditions) Yes under Intergroup Yes Not stated Yes IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5582. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Archival repositories From: rick tompkins . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/9/2009 11:06:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Just a caveat to let you know that AAs are easy to please (especially archivists) but those in service and the vocal residents of the peanut galleries are reluctant to commit to spending large sums of a Delegate Area's cash. You'll have to propose the site with plenty of details. Perhaps the AA Archives at GSO can provide you more information on any of our other 91 Delegate Areas, but the costs are always relative to what the Fellowship wants to do with Archives items. My Area 20 Northern Illinois rents a 10x10x10 storage unit in a converted office building, currently a "Public Storage" space on the building's second floor. Heated, insured, dust-free, and a gated site. Unlock and open the rollup door and there's added aisle working space of six more feet to work in. It has a 10x10 window with a tarp to shield the sun and when it's pulled back there's lots of daylight. Since 1998 the Area 20 Archives have been placed there, we installed shelves, and made the space a work-friendly environment. We started the Repository at $94 per month and the current rent is $118 per month. Not too bad for a facility that's changed hands three times over the ten years it's been located there.no losses, floods, fires, or insects! 2008 = $1400 per year, paid in advance by Area funds. And its effective cost vs. value? Priceless. rick, Illinois - - - - From: "Keith" (kroloson at mindspring.com) Hello, for the State of Georgia AA, Area 16, we have a location that has 1) state office 2) book distribution center to groups and interoffices 3) refrigerated archive room, all in one location, and across from it is the hotel where the State Assemblies occur. I don't know if they can tell you the startup costs or ongoing yearly costs for archive facility, but go here to ask http://www.aageorgia.org/archives.htm and contact Archives@aageorgia.org There is quite a lot in the refrigerated room. I'm sure it has moisture-controls too. In His Service, Keith R, former District 16E PI - - - - From: Greg Hughes (glhughes227 at yahoo.com) Area 27 (State of Louisiana) has an archival repository. It is currently housed in a room at the home of a member and former delegate who now serves as the area archivist. The Archives Committee is currently looking for a permanent location. - - - - From: alan dobson (dobbo101 at yahoo.com) If poss could you also share any info you find about this with me too? Thanks. Alan D 07827 839712 - - - - Original message #5568 from (kauaihulahips at yahoo.com) What A.A. Areas at present have free-standing repositories for their archives? Could people from some of these already existing archival repositories send me information about what they have for their Area? For example, what is the square footage? how much is the rent? utilities? area annual budget/beakdown? What does the facility look like? Any tips for our new area standing chair and our new archivist? (kauaihulahips at yahoo.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5583. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature From: stockholmfellowship . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/12/2009 12:29:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I wrote to the Managing Editor of the AA Grapevine to find out about royalties and if the magazines are self-seupporting. According to the Managing Editor, the AA Grapevine and La Vina are self-supporting through magazine and other product sales. If they are in the red, however, AAWS will cover the deficit; as has happened in some fiscal years. However, the business model was established with the goal of breaking even. As far as she knows, in regard to potential royalties to Bill W.'s estate, "The Language of the Heart" sales are all credited to the Grapevine's account. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5584. . . . . . . . . . . . Ralph Pfau instead of Big Book in early Spanish language AA From: juan.aa98 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2009 12:19:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Ralph Pfau (Father John Doe) more widely read than Big Book in early Spanish-speaking A.A. - - - - Juan Rodriguez in California, in his researches in this area, has found that Spanish transla- tions of Fr. Ralph’s writings were used as the basis of Spanish-language A.A. in both North and South America during the years before there was a widely available Spanish translation of the Big Book. The earliest actual text which Rodriguez has found of a Spanish translation of the Big Book is from Puerto Rico and dates to 1959. As we know, the serious legal disputes which arose later on over rival translations of the Big Book in Mexico formed one of the most unseemly scandals of A.A. history. So for many years, in much of Latin America, Spanish translations of Fr. Pfau's writings were safer and more easily available. Also, Fr. Pfau's prose style was much easier to translate into Spanish than that of the Big Book, and seemed to naturally convert itself into smooth, flowing Spanish. These translations are in the form of booklets, usually about one-third to half the length of the Golden Books, giving individual sections from Fr. Pfau’s writings. So the twenty page booklet entitled "La Vida Emocional y el Mito de la Perfeccion" (“The Emotional Life and the Myth of Perfection”) was taken from "Sobriety Without End" (1957) and the twenty-four page booklet on "Resentimientos" (“Resentments”) was taken from "Sobriety and Beyond" (1955). The thirty-six page booklet entitled "Sano Juicio" (literally “Sane Judgment”) was a translation of "The Golden Book of Sanity" (1963). Fr. Ralph has continued to be a great hero among Spanish-speakers in the United States as well. The thirty-two page booklet "Liberado de las Tinieblas" (“Freed from Darkness”), a translation of Ralph’s 1958 autobiography (“Out of the Shadows”) in Look magazine, was published with a red and yellow cover much like the old circus cover of the original Big Books, in 2008 in Hollister, California, by the A.A. group La Gran Familia, to honor his memory, and there is a beautiful memorial to him on a hill top called Serenity Point at the St. Francis Retreat Center just outside of San Juan Bautista, California. Posted by Glenn C., with information supplied by Juan R. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5585. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Dick Perez from the Akron Area From: Bob McK. . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2009 8:05:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Ricardo ("Dick") P. is first mentioned as on the Central Committee in Cleveland in 1945. The documentary of Central Bulletins on Compact Disk ("CB on CD") is available at nominal price thru the Cleveland District Office. Elvira at that office (216-241-7387) knew him. I have one talk by him produced by Encore http://www.12steptapes.com/ Dick was mentioned as working for the Mexican Consulate. The March '46 issue mentions him as translating the Big Book into Spanish -- although local rumor (as well as Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers) suggest his wife did most of the work. Please share your results on this search with me. It will get to our area and Cleveland Central Office Archives. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5586. . . . . . . . . . . . Dick Perez From: juan.aa98 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/13/2009 3:54:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII What is Dick Perez's sobriety date I am curious to know? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5587. . . . . . . . . . . . Plenitud magazine for AA''s in Mexico From: Juan Rodriguez . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/11/2009 9:11:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII There is a recovery magazine in Mexico called Plenitud (translates to Fullness). It has more circulation and importance in AA Mexico than the Grapevine. They have done several articles on him, from interviews in Spanish that he gave. I contacted the magazine and they are about to send me all the info on him that they have from over 50 years of publication. I will post my findings. Juan R. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5588. . . . . . . . . . . . Father Martin Chalk Talk Passing From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2009 8:34:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII baltimoresun.com The Rev. Joseph C. Martin dies at 84 Leader in fight against alcoholism founded Father Martin's Ashley in Harford County By Frederick N. Rasmussen March 10, 2009 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Rev. Joseph C. Martin, a recovering alcoholic and an international leader in the fight against alcoholism and substance abuse who was a co-founder of Father Martin's Ashley, a Harford County treatment center, died early yesterday of heart disease at his Havre de Grace home. He was 84. Father Martin's "Chalk Talk on Alcohol" and "No Laughing Matter" have become standard tools used by recovery centers, schools and employee assistance programs the world over. "Father Martin is an icon in the treatment industry and was one of the first to describe alcoholism in layman's terms as a disease," said Mark Hushen, president and chief executive of Father Martin's Ashley, located near Havre de Grace. "He helped thousands and thousands directly and indirectly with his message all across the world," he said. Mike Gimbel, a substance-abuse expert who was Baltimore County drug czar for 23 years and now directs an anti-steroid program at St. Joseph Medical Center, is an old friend. "Father Martin has done more to educate and treat those suffering from addiction than anyone in the past 50 years," Mr. Gimbel said yesterday. Born in Baltimore, the son of a machinist who was a heavy drinker, Father Martin was raised in Hampden. He was a 1942 graduate of Loyola High School and attended Loyola College from 1942 until 1944. He studied for the priesthood at St. Mary's Seminary & University in Roland Park from 1944 to 1948, when he was ordained a priest of the Society of St. Sulpice. Father Martin began drinking while he held teaching positions at St. Joseph's College in Mountain View, Calif., from 1948 to 1956, and later at St. Charles Seminary in Catonsville from 1956 to 1959. "I drank from the age of 24 to 34," he told The Sun in a 1992 profile. "I was afraid to go near the altar to say Mass six days a week. I did go on Sunday, but shaking all the while." After his troublesome behavior came to the attention of superiors, Father Martin was confined to a psychiatric ward in California in 1956, and after his release, returned to drinking double martinis and shots of vodka from hidden bottles in his bathroom. "It never occurred to me that perhaps there was something odd about a priest walking toward a garbage dump in the middle of the afternoon carrying two suitcases of clanking bottles," he told The Sun in an interview last year. Finally, the Archdiocese of Baltimore sent Father Martin to Guest House, a Michigan treatment center for the clergy, to get sober. By the time he left Guest House, he had regained his sobriety and found what would become his life's work. He converted his notes based on Bill Wilson's Alcoholics Anonymous famous 12-step program into a blackboard talk, which was done on an actual blackboard with chalk. During the 1960s, he began presenting it at AA meetings, rehab centers and private businesses. In 1972, his "Chalk Talk" lecture was filmed by the Navy and later was picked up by the other armed forces where it was used as mandatory addiction training for service personnel. Father Martin and his blackboard lecture were in demand all over the world, which gave rise to his crack: "Have chalk. Will travel." In 1964, he became acquainted with Lora Mae Abraham, a mother and a housewife, who was the daughter of a Baptist minister. "I've been sober 45 years. Those years when I was suffering from alcoholism were years of disgrace and shame, and especially so because I was a woman," said Mrs. Abraham. One night in 1964, Mrs. Abraham joined other members from her AA meeting at the Johns Hopkins University to hear a lecture featuring Father Martin. "When he walked out on stage and said, 'Hello, I'm Joe Martin, and I'm an alcoholic,' and that alcoholics are not bad people, they have an illness, I surrendered right there that night," she said. The two became close friends, and it was Mrs. Abraham who suggested in 1978 that Father Martin establish a center where alcoholics could come for treatment. It took seven years of fundraising before they were able to acquire Oakington, the former estate of Maryland Sen. Millard Tydings overlooking the Chesapeake Bay. The 22-bed facility opened in 1983 and was named Ashley for Mrs. Abraham's father, the Rev. Arthur Ashley. The Rev. Leonard A. Dahl, a Presbyterian clergyman, stepped down two years ago as president and CEO at Ashley. "He also took me to my first AA meeting, and I recently celebrated 36 years of sobriety," Mr. Dahl said of Father Martin. "He believed that alcoholism was his cross and hymn to carry, and he was never bitter about the disease." Father Martin, who liked to say, "Give me a blackboard, a piece of chalk and a bunch of drunks and I'm at home," always greeted new arrivals with a hopeful welcome: "The nightmare is over." Father Martin also made sure that no one was turned away because of their inability to pay for treatment that can cost $20,800 for the 28-day program. In the more than 30 years since it accepted its first patient, more than 30,000 people have been treated, including celebrities from the world of Hollywood, sports and politics. While retiring from active management in 2003, Father Martin, who had celebrated 50 years of sobriety, continued lecturing patients until late last year. Michael K. Deaver, former White House chief of staff during the Reagan administration, had been a patient and later served on Ashley's board for a decade. "When I came to Ashley, I had been with presidents, kings, popes and prime ministers, but Father Martin was the most powerful person I had ever met," Mr. Deaver said. "You see, Father has the power to change people, to make them better, to make them whole again." A Mass of Christian burial will be offered at 10 a.m. Friday at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Cathedral and Mulberry streets. Father Martin is survived by a brother, Edward Martin of Lilburn, Ga.; two sisters, Frances Osborne and Dorothy Christopher, both of Baltimore; Mrs. Abraham and her husband, Tommy Abraham, with whom he lived for 30 years; and many nieces and nephews. ldpierce aabibliography.com - - - - From: "Mike Custer" (generalc at woh.rr.com) Father Martin will be missed by many. I had the pleasure of meeting him a few times at different talks and events. Thank you for your service to so many. May God bless you and yours, love to all, Mike ... IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5589. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/11/2009 8:39:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII But isn't there a difference between a Prison Group and taking a meeting into a Prison? Moreover, since the San Quentin group was formed in 1941 and the first Philadelphia Group did not exist before 1940, it's hard to see how it could even have been taking meetings into Philadelphia prisons two years before 1941. The first institutional meetings were held at Rockland Hospital in 1939, which is New York State tho' the participants were partly from New Jersey. I think by the way that this institutional meeting may be the oldest AA meeting in the same location it was first held. - - - - From: John Pine (johncpine at gmail.com) Isn't there a difference between a self- directed, autonomous group within a prison and meetings that are brought in by outside groups or individuals? Could that be the distinction here? John Pine Richmond, Virginia - - - - > From: Shakey1aa@aol.com > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 > Subject: Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin > > The first prison group was definitely not > San Quentin! The Philadelphia Mother group > was taking meetings into Philadelphia prisons > two years before S. Q. and have continuously > carried on that tradition. > > Yours in Service, > Shakey Mike Gwirtz IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5590. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Archival repositories From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/12/2009 6:07:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have often wondered why regional and state AA Archives are not placed physically into the library of a large institution. (Or smaller local institution.) I.e. the Texas archives being placed at the U Texas Library in Austin. Or at SMU in Dallas. Even a large city library would be a good choice. (Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, have very large pubic libraries.) The archives could be donated but maintained by the group donating. Or they could be loaned (for fixed time 2 year, 5 year, 10 year) this would allow traveling archives to remove materials for conventions etc. I think this would make the materials avail- able to many more people. For example ,I have been to Oklahoma City 50 times recently and almost every time I go to the archives they are closed. LD Pierce editor www.aabibliography.com "an internet aa archive!!" IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5591. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Anyone know anything about the first prison group? From: marionoredstone . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/12/2009 1:09:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII And of course the rest of the story is that the 25 millionth copy of the Big Book was presented to the then current warden of San Quentin in recognition of its being the beginning of the prison meetings. I have presented at one here in central Indiana and agree with those who say it is worthwhile. While talking before the meeting with an inmate, and hearing his tale, I could truthfully say the very same thing that Warden Duffy describes the first AA speaker to have said to inmates. God is near Marion IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5592. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Anyone know anything about the first prison group? From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/14/2009 5:56:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Do you also recall that after receiving the 25 millionth Big Book and returning home she was out of a job? A rather ignoble homecoming. Cheers Arthur -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of marionoredstone Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about the first prison group? And of course the rest of the story is that the 25 millionth copy of the Big Book was presented to the then current warden of San Quentin in recognition of its being the beginning of the prison meetings. I have presented at one here in central Indiana and agree with those who say it is worthwhile. While talking before the meeting with an inmate, and hearing his tale, I could truthfully say the very same thing that Warden Duffy describes the first AA speaker to have said to inmates. God is near Marion IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5593. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin From: Kimball ROWE . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/14/2009 5:58:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII It also strikes me that if Owen V. heard the message of Alcoholics Anonymous in 1941 at a meeting in the prison in Salem, Oregon at a meeting started by Doc H., then it makes sense that Doc H had started the meeting before that, since Owen V. was not a founder of that meeting. (Owen V later went on to start the first AA group in Utah in 1942 (=after release from prison.) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5594. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/14/2009 8:18:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII AA Archives should be based on fact. Here are a few. The San Quentin Warden that was presented the 25 millionth copy of the Big Book at the International Convention in Canada in 2005 was Jill Brown. She was fired a week or so after receiving the award. FACT AA literature says San Quentin was started in 1942, AACA PG 89. FACT The Feb 1952 Grapevine says AA at San Quentin is a little more than 9 years old. That means it began in 1943 or late 1942. Other sourses say 1941 or 1943. I'll go with AACA, our not so perfect history. FACT Philadelphia prisons have had continuous meetings since September 1940. FACT Philadelphia AA started on the last day of Feb 1940. FACT (a leap year day) Sobriety thru the Oxford Group was present in Philadelphia in 1938 and future members of the Philadelphia Mother group had 2 years of sobriety before Jimmy B got here. Jimmy was given their names to look them up when he got here. FACT (John P L, for one) Whether it was 24 months or 20 months, the message of AA has been continuously carried in to the prisons of Philadelphia. My point in the original message is that our history is misrepresented in our literature. This is not the only example. If our history is found to be wrong then it must be corrected. MY OPINION (by the way I'm not yelling). Duffy had the 1st registered in New York prison meeting. There was no Intergroup in Philadelphia in 1940. The Intergroup started in 1948 and GSO wasn't in existence till 1951. Without group registration numbers, groups were registered by writing to the Alcoholic Foundation in New York and letting a secretary know about it. When I next go to GSO Archives I will request authorization to see Clinton Duffy's letter and then nail down the date the San Quentin AA prison Group began. Of course it will depend upon the approval of the Trustee's in charge of Archives to approve me. If Jared would like to go, just let me know. Then we can get the exact month and year and verify if it's 1941, 1942 or 1943. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz See you in Woodland Hills,Ca.Sept 24-27,2009 13th National Archives Conv. > From: _Shakey1aa@aol.Sha_ (mailto:Shakey1aa@aol.com) > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 > Subject: Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin > > The first prison group was definitely not > San Quentin! The Philadelphia Mother group > was taking meetings into Philadelphia prisons > two years before S. Q. and have continuously > carried on that tradition. > > Yours in Service, > Shakey Mike Gwirtz IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5595. . . . . . . . . . . . Thanks from Jim Blair From: James Blair . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/17/2009 2:02:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I arrived home from the hospital yesterday after my colon resection and I'd like to thank everyone for their prayers and support. I have a recovery period of 6 to 12 weeks and this will afford me the time to complete some history projects I had put aside. Jim Blair IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5596. . . . . . . . . . . . Father Martin: why Ashley in Maryland instead of Carolina? From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/14/2009 2:45:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Father Martin was planning a place in North Carolina, and I was surprised when he opened the place in Maryland. Does anyone know why he changed to Maryland? - - - - From GFC, the moderator. See his biography at: http://www.fathermartinsashley.com/interior.php?section=AboutAshley&subsecti on=B\ io [5] Father Joseph Martin - Biography Father Joseph C. Martin, S.S. (1924-2009), was co-founder of the addiction treatment center Father Martin’s Ashley in Havre de Grace, MD, and a noted authority and lecturer on alcoholism. Best known for his “Chalk Talk on Alcohol,” delivered to alcoholics and their families with his charismatic style and sense of humor, Father Martin is credited with saving the lives of thousands of alcoholics and addicts. His “Chalk Talk” lecture, which began “I’m Joe Martin and I’m an alcoholic,” and more than 40 films, are legendary. His films, which have been translated into multiple languages, continue to be used at treatment centers around the world, in hospitals, substance abuse programs, industry, and most branches of the U.S. government. He is author of several publications, including Chalk Talks on Alcohol, published by Harper & Row in 1982, which is still in print. The Early Years Father Martin was born in Baltimore on October 12, 1924, the fourth of seven children of Marie and James Martin. His leadership ability, communications skill, and charm became evident early in life. He was valedictorian of Loyola High School’s class of 1942, and was voted best debater, best actor, and class member with the best smile. He attended Loyola College from 1942 to 1944. During his senior year in high school and as he was attending Loyola College, he had a part-time job with St. Mary’s Seminary, where members of the Society of St. Sulpice taught seminarians. Increasingly drawn to their mission, he felt the calling to enter the priesthood, studying at St. Mary’s Seminary on Paca Street and at St Mary’s in Roland Park in Baltimore. He was ordained a priest for the Archdiocese of Baltimore in 1948. The following year he entered the Society of St. Sulpice, a community of priests devoted to the formation and education of seminarians and priests. Following ordination, he was sent to teach high school students preparing for the priesthood at St. Joseph’s College in Mountain View, CA (1948-56), where he was a successful and popular teacher. In 1956, he was sent to teach at St. Charles College in Catonsville, MD. Addiction and Recovery When it became apparent to colleagues that he had a problem with alcohol, Father Martin was sent to Guest House in Lake Orion, MI, an alcoholism treatment center and sanctuary for Catholic priests that advocated the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous (A.A.). He left Guest House in 1959, in recovery and charting a new course for his life. He returned to Baltimore and St. Charles College, where he resumed teaching and supported his recovery by attending A.A. meetings three or four times a week. He seized every opportunity to speak about alcoholism, captivating audiences with what became the “Chalk Talk on Alcohol.” The Transition Years In 1968, he was assigned to serve as chaplain for the Oblate Sisters of Providence in Catonsville, and he continued to deliver his “Chalk Talk” to audiences along the East Coast. In 1970, Father Martin reached out to Mae Abraham, a woman he met through A.A., and with her and her husband’s encouragement, he made the decision to work the field of recovery. He became a lecturer and educator in the Division of Alcohol Control for the state of Maryland, conducting seminars for doctors, lawyers, parole officers, and social workers. In 1972, the United States Navy filmed “The Blackboard Talk,” which they then dubbed “The Chalk Talk.” It became known throughout the U.S. military and established Father Martin as a recognized leader in the addiction treatment field. The Ashley Years In 1977, on a flight returning from an appearance in South Carolina, Mae Abraham said, “Father, why don’t you open a treatment center where people can get well with the philosophy you have?” Mae Abraham and Father Martin began their quest to establish an addiction treatment center, raising funds over a seven-year period with Father Martin’s “Chalk Talk” delivered to audiences across the U.S. Thousands of small donations and several large gifts and matching funds made it possible to buy and renovate Oakington, the estate owned by the widow of U.S. Senator Millard Tydings on the Chesapeake Bay near Havre de Grace. Father Martin’s Ashley opened in 1983. Just two years after opening, Forbes magazine ranked it as one of the top ten addiction treatment facilities in the country. Today, patients come from the East Coast and across the U.S. to the 85-bed facility, which has a reputation for treating alcohol and drug addiction and relapse with respect for the dignity of each individual who enters its doors. To date, Ashley has provided treatment to more than 40,000 people suffering from the disease of addiction and has provided program services to their families. Father Martin always had a very special concern for priests in trouble. In this, he remained faithful to his Sulpician vocation throughout his life. Honors and Awards In 1991, Father Martin was invited by Pope John Paul II to participate in the Vatican’s International Conference on Drugs and Alcohol. He made four trips to Russia under the auspices of the International Institute on Alcohol Education and Training, and also traveled to Switzerland and Poland so speak to A.A. groups and to addiction counselors in training. Father Martin’s awards include the Andrew White Medal from Loyola College, Baltimore, for his contributions to the general welfare of the citizenry of Maryland; Rutgers University’s Summer School of Alcohol Studies’ Distinguished Service Award (1988); and the Norman Vincent Peale Award (1992). The Later Years Although he retired from active management at Father Martin’s Ashley in 2003, he continued to lecture, addressing patients as recently as last month, ending each talk, as he always did, “It’s the likes of you that keep the likes of me going.” He passed away at his home in Havre de Grace on March 9, 2009 at the age of 84. Father Martin’s Legacy In the words of the late Mike Deaver, former White House Chief of Staff under President Ronald Reagan, “Father Martin changed my life and changed me. When I came to Ashley, I had been with presidents and kings and popes and prime ministers, but Father was the most powerful person I had ever met, and he still is today. You see, Father has the power to change people, to make them better, to make them whole again.” Father Martin’s legacy is Father Martin’s Ashley. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5597. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Archival repositories and housing collections From: Mike Breedlove . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/14/2009 11:05:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Greetings LD, You raise an interesting point about the housing of archival materials and access to them. No doubt others will have valuable experience to share on this topic, and we eagerly await hearing the experiences of others. Please allow me to share some of my experience. Most public or private archives and libraries only accept donated (not loaned) material. Why should an institution have the responsibility and use its resources for maintaining materials without the authority to discard what it believes to be non-permanent? To be specific, AA materials of a local nature are just not that valuable historically to most libraries or archives so most local repositories just don't see the need to collect AA materials. In addition, those institutions are generally not interested in entering into a complicated arrangement regarding the care and housing of a separate collection of material, particularly one that is not within their collecting policy. What happens, they might ask, if the local AA entity no longer is willing to maintain their records? No institution wants to be placed in the position of throwing historical records on the street. I can speak from some experience in this area as I have worked in a state archives for twenty three years as an arrangement and description archivist and have been involved in state, regional and national archival professional organizations. I do not know of a single institution in our state that would be willing to house archival records under a "loan" or even "gift" agreement in which another entity shares the responsibility for a set of records within that institution. Philosophically, as members of Alcoholics Anonymous it seems to me that the Seventh Tradition means that if we are fully self-supporting through our own contributions then we support our archives as the historical repository of the message of Alcoholics Anonymous as it has come to us over the years. In fact, other traditions are also very important in this regard as the A. A. Guidelines on Archives emphasize. Please see http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/mg-17_archives.pdf Alcoholics Anonymous at any and every level should not surrender its archival or historical responsibility to another entity. After all, we want the archives of Alcoholics Anonymous to be in the hands of Alcoholics Anonymous, where its life saving message cannot be distorted or diminished. In our Area (Alabama-Northwest Florida) we have accomplished a great deal with our archives, particularly in collecting archival records and special collections. Nonetheless our archives is not the fully functional repository that we would like it to be. That means that we have work to do to make our archives more accessible and fully self-supporting. We are trying to do that work now. While these efforts are not moving quickly, they are proceeding steadily. One other observation - It seems to me that there is a growing sense of shared responsibility among archivists and historians in AA regarding AA's history, and a growing cooperation among the different districts, areas and the GSO archives to collaboratively preserve AA's history. This tendency is all to the good. We need each other. Once again the principles of commitment, collaboration and cooperation are paramount. We are still finding our way, but in this effort we work in unity. Yours in service, Mike B. Area One Archivist - - - - From: Sober186@aol.com (Sober186 at aol.com) Interesting idea. I wonder if we would run into anonymity problems? We are anonymous only outside AA rooms, I think. Some of the archives which would then be open to non AA readers might contain full names. Would we want to edit out last names? Jim in Central Ohio - - - - From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com) The answer to placing regional or state AA Archives in a library or large institution can be found in the AA Preamble. When I go somewhere to see AA archives I always make an appointment to do so. Most Archives have rules about who, where and when they can be seen. AA members have to be cleared to see the originals and someone needs to be present from the committee so that illegal copies or outright stealing is not occuring. A sober thief is still a thief. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz - - - - Original Message From: diazeztone I have often wondered why regional and state AA Archives are not placed physically into the library of a large institution. (Or smaller local institution.) I.e. the Texas archives being placed at the U Texas Library in Austin. Or at SMU in Dallas. Even a large city library would be a good choice. (Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, have very large pubic libraries.) The archives could be donated but maintained by the group donating. Or they could be loaned (for fixed time 2 year, 5 year, 10 year) this would allow traveling archives to remove materials for conventions etc. I think this would make the materials avail- able to many more people. For example ,I have been to Oklahoma City 50 times recently and almost every time I go to the archives they are closed. LD Pierce editor www.aabibliography.com "an internet aa archive!!" IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5598. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/18/2009 5:34:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In Warden Duffy's speech in 1960 at the Long Beach convention, he said he formed the group in 1941 (AA Today, as quoted earlier) -- that's the word of the group's founder, rather than what was said earlier by Bill (in AACOA) or the Grapevine (1952). My guess is he knew. But of course the principal point is the difference between a group (especially a prison group) and a meeting (specifically one brought into a facility). If I am free to go up to GSO with Mike, I'll be happy to, tho' I doubt my presence would add anything to his research, since he is an experienced and so far as I know an efficient researcher. Unless the NJ Group brought meetings into a prison, my guess is Philadelphia was the first to do that, just as Rockland State Hospital was the first institutional meeting (1939) and San Quentin the first prison group (1941 by Warden Duffy's word, though 1942 according to a report in the Grapevine and according to Bill until Warden Duffy's 1960 speech gave a first-hand account). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5599. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Father Martin: why Ashley in Maryland instead of Carolina? From: Cece Archer . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/20/2009 3:40:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII As I understand it the land Father Martin and Mae wanted to obtain for the treatment center in North Carolina was going to be difficult to obtain for zoning, permits, etc. and they wanted to be able to start the project soon. The land was available in Maryland, so Ashley was born. Cecilia IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5600. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house From: Michael F. Margetis . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/20/2009 2:59:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi all, On page 281 in "Dr. Bob And The Good Old Timers" there's a paragraph that reads: "Remembering his own disastrous trip to Atlantic City and Bill's experiment with keeping liquor on the sideboard to prove it was no longer a temptation, Dr. Bob advocated that members stay in dry places whenever possible. 'You don't ask the Lord not to lead you into temptation, then turn around and walk right into it,' he said." My question is, what's the story behind Bill's experiment? I've looked everywhere I can think of to find that story, but can't find it. Thanks, Mike Margetis Brunswick, Maryland IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5601. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature From: secondles . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/11/2009 6:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The answer to questions about royalties are basically found in reading a copy of Bill's WILL and Lois's WILL. Les C - - - - From the moderator: So does anybody know where a copy of either of these wills could be found? Were they probated in New York state? G.C. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5602. . . . . . . . . . . . First 100 Sober: who were Jack S. and Sim R.? From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/22/2009 7:24:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In a February 1948 Grapevine article entitled "Real Old-Timers Meet With New Babies to Exchange Views on Program," we find the following paragraph: "The six who have been members a decade or more and who came out from behind their whiskers to talk a little about those earliest days when AA was newborn and almost stillborn, and their combined assets could be measured in nickels and dimes - on some days - were: Bill W., who with Dr. Bob of Akron started it all; Horace C., Bert T., Dick S., Jack S. and Sim R." The first four are quite well known. Does anyone know anything about the last two -- Jack S. and Sim R. -- who, based on the date of the article and their having been described as having "a decade or more" of sobriety, would have to be included in a list of the first 100 sober? Very interested to know! God Bless. John B. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5603. . . . . . . . . . . . What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? From: katiebartlett79 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/24/2009 12:06:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Foreword to second edition, page xviii: "[5 months after the 1st ed. of the Big Book was published in April 1939,] in the fall of 1939 [in September] Fulton Oursler, then editor of Liberty, printed a piece in his magazine, called "Alcoholics and God." This brought a rush of 800 frantic inquiries into the little New York office which meanwhile had been established. Each inquiry was painstakingly answered; pamphlets and books were sent out .... By the end of 1939 it was estimated that 800 alcoholics were on their way to recovery." My group and I would like to know if anyone knows what literature was sent out when it states that "pamphlets and books were sent out" from the New York AA office during the period running from September to December of 1939. Thanking u kindly, Katie from Barking Big Book Study IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5604. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/26/2009 9:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Michael (and all), The way I consistently heard it during my 1970s research, including from Lois herself, was that Bill did not keep booze "on the sideboard" but on a closet shelf in case they needed it to help sober up some drunk. Lois also said (and this may also be in her book) that when they found the bottle as they were preparing to move, both of them were surprised that they had forgotten about it. Much more research has been done since, of course, but memory is a very tricky and in general untrustworthy tool, especially in the form of "someone told my sponsor's sponsor that . . . ." On the other hand, we do keep discovering new facets of the old story, which is one great thing about the AAHL group. ernie kurtz - - - - Original message: on Mar 20, 2009, Michael F. Margetis wrote: > Hi all, > > On page 281 in "Dr. Bob And The Good Old > Timers" there's a paragraph that reads: > > "Remembering his own disastrous trip to > Atlantic City and Bill's experiment with > keeping liquor on the sideboard to prove it > was no longer a temptation, Dr. Bob advocated > that members stay in dry places whenever > possible. 'You don't ask the Lord not to lead > you into temptation, then turn around and > walk right into it,' he said." > > My question is, what's the story behind > Bill's experiment? > > I've looked everywhere I can think of to > find that story, but can't find it. > > Thanks, > > Mike Margetis > Brunswick, Maryland > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5605. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house From: elg3_79 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/27/2009 10:48:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I believe this "idea" arose during Bill's stay with Anne and Bob Smith, but my source (http://www.barefootsworld.net/aa-bbtrivia.html) is unclear as to whether this pre- or postdated Dr. Bob's infamous Atlantic City jaunt. This source gives the following explanation of something that is said in the Big Book on page 102 at the bottom of the page -- "Many of us keep liquor in our homes" This source attributes this custom to: 'Our co-founder, Dr Bob. He said "I was adamant on having liquor. I said we had to prove that you could live in the presence of liquor. So I got two big bottles and put them right on the sideboard and that drove Anne wild for awhile."' Y'all's in service Ted G. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5606. . . . . . . . . . . . Daily Reflections From: tomper87 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/27/2009 1:28:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have a first printing of The Daily Reflections which does not include the listing of The Twelve Steps and The Twelve Traditions. Can anyone tell me at which printing they were added to the book? Thank you. Tom P. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5607. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house From: CloydG . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/26/2009 1:57:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Perhaps it comes from the practice, described on page 103 of "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers," of giving small amounts of alcohol periodically to alcoholics who were detoxing, over the first day or two or three, to help keep them from going into the DTs. Clyde G. - - - - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael F. Margetis To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Bill's experiment with keeping liquor in the house Hi all, On page 281 in "Dr. Bob And The Good Old Timers" there's a paragraph that reads: "Remembering his own disastrous trip to Atlantic City and Bill's experiment with keeping liquor on the sideboard to prove it was no longer a temptation, Dr. Bob advocated that members stay in dry places whenever possible. 'You don't ask the Lord not to lead you into temptation, then turn around and walk right into it,' he said." My question is, what's the story behind Bill's experiment? I've looked everywhere I can think of to find that story, but can't find it. Thanks, Mike Margetis Brunswick, Maryland IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5608. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Big Book Royalties, Bill and Lois''s wills From: LES COLE . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/27/2009 5:43:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Copies of the Agreement between Bill and AAWorld Services, Inc dated April 29, 1963 can be found by entering: William Wilson Will on the URL line which brings up GOOGLE sites. Click Bill Wilson Royalty Agreement. Therein are descriptions of Copyright provisions, and references to Bill's WILL, and references to Lois's WILL. - - - - The actual WILLs can be found the same way by typing in Bill W WILL on URL line; then click William Wilson's Last Will. There was one written August 2, 1965 and one written January 12, 1968. - - - - Lois's WILL can be found by entering Lois Wilson Will On the URL line, then click Lois Wilson's Last Will and Testament. It was written August 11, 1983 Les C - - - - To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com From: elsietwo@msn.com Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:55:48 +0000 Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature The answer to questions about royalties are basically found in reading a copy of Bill's WILL and Lois's WILL. Les C IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5609. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book Royalties, Bill and Lois''s wills From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/28/2009 1:10:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Les Cole's instructions take you to a copy of the wills on a well-known anti-AA website (see the end of this message for the URLs). - - - - An email from "Mitchell K." also refers us to that same website. ((mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com)) - - - - An email from Greg S. also mentions the copy of the wills on that site, which he warns us "are not the actual papers but retyped." BUT GREG SAYS THAT THERE IS A BETTER SITE TO GO TO: If you want to post these for information purposes, here is a better site (retyped also) but there is the 1968 AND the 1965 will of Bill, plus the 1963 royalty agreement: http://aagso.org/aaws/heirs.htm (Bill) http://aagso.org/aaws/lois.htm (Lois) - - - - ORIGINAL MESSAGE: Message #5608 from LES COLE (elsietwo at msn.com) Re: Big Book Royalties, Bill and Lois's wills Copies of the Agreement between Bill and AAWorld Services, Inc dated April 29, 1963 can be found by entering: William Wilson Will on the URL line which brings up GOOGLE sites. Click Bill Wilson Royalty Agreement. Therein are descriptions of Copyright provisions, and references to Bill's WILL, and references to Lois's WILL. - - - - The actual WILLs can be found the same way by typing in Bill W WILL on URL line; then click William Wilson's Last Will. There was one written August 2, 1965 and one written January 12, 1968. - - - - Lois's WILL can be found by entering Lois Wilson Will On the URL line, then click Lois Wilson's Last Will and Testament. It was written August 11, 1983 Les C - - - - LES'S INSTRUCTIONS TAKE YOU TO THIS WEBSITE: http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-BillWill.html http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-LoisWill.html IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5610. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill Wilson''s Will - 12th day of January, 1968 From: Patricia . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/28/2009 8:55:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Bill Wilson's Will - 12th day of January, 1968 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- I, WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON, residing in Bedford Hills, Westchester County, State of New York, being of sound and disposing mind and memory, do hereby make, publish and declare this instrument to be the First Codicil to my Last Will and Testament dated August 2, 1965. First: I revoke Article "FIRST" of my said Will. Second: The following shall be added to my said Will in lieu of the former Article "FIRST": FIRST: I have entered into an agreement, dated April 29, 1963, with Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., of 305 East 45th Street, New York, New York, under which royalties may become payable to me with respect to certain books or other material of which I am the author or which I have prepared for publication [understand the background of these terms: the authors of the Big Book and other publications get nothing but Bill and his heirs get the financial rewards] as set forth in the agreement (the agreement and all modifications, renewals or extensions thereof is hereinafter referred to as the "Royalty Agreement"). Under the present terms of the Royalty Agreement, I have the right to bequeath to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, and any other persons living at the time of my death, life interests in the royalties payable after my death and I also have the right to grant to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, the power to designate in her Last Will and Testament, duly admitted to probate, persons selected by her who are living at the time of her death who shall be entitled to receive, in such proportions as my said wife may designate, life interests after her death in all or part of the royalties payable to her after my death. Accordingly, I direct that all of the right, title or interest that I may have at the time of my death in or to any royalties under the Royalty Agreement shall be disposed of as follows: A. I give and bequeath to HELEN WYNN [Bill changed his Will to take 10% of the royalties from his wife Lois and give them to his mistress Helen], of Pleasantville, New York, if she survives me, a life interest in ten percent (10%) of such royalties. If the said HELEN WYNN does not survive me, I direct that the said ten percent (10%) of such royalties shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions of Paragraphs B or C, as the case my be of this Article FIRST. B. I give and bequeath to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, if she survives me, a life interest in the remaining ninety percent (90%) of such royalties. I also grant to my said wife, if she survives me, the power to select and designate in her Last Will and Testament, duly admitted to probate, persons living at the time of her death who are to receive life interests after her death in such royalties in such proportions as she may designate. If my said wife fails to exercise, in whole or in part, the power of appointment granted to her under the preceding provisions of this Paragraph B, I direct that any royalties which remain undisposed of as a result of such failure shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions of Paragraph C of this Article FIRST as though I had survived my said wife and died immediately after her death. C. If my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, does not survive me, I direct that all of the right or title that I may have at the time of my death in and to the remaining ninty percent (90%) of such royalties shall be divided into twenty (20) equal shares, which shall be disposed of as follows: 1. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to my sister, HELEN EVANS, if she survives me. 2. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my sister, DOROTHY STRONG, if she survives me. 3. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my brother-in-law, DR. LEONARD STRONG, if he survives me. 4. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my cousin, HOWARD WILSON, if he survives me. 5. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my brother-in-law, ROGERS BURNHAM, if he survives me. 6. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to LAURA BURNHAM (the wife of my brother-in-law, ROGERS BURNHAM), if she survives me. 7. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my brother-in-law, DR. LYMAN BURNHAM, if he survives me. 8. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to FLORENCE BURNHAM (the wife of my brother-in-law, DR. LYMAN BURNHAM), if she survives me. 9. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my sister-in-law, BARBARA JONES, if she survives me. 10. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to NELL WING, if she survives me. 11. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to HARRIET SEVERINO, if she survives me. If any beneficiary named in any of subdivisions "1" through "11" of this Paragraph C does not survive me, I direct that the share (or shares) and the life interest in such share (or shares) of such deceased beneficiary shall be divided among the beneficiaries named in subdivisions "1" through "11" of this Paragraph C who do survive me, in the proportion that the share (or shares) of each such surviving beneficiary bears (or bear) to the total shares of all such surviving beneficiaries. Third: I hereby revoke the sentence following subdivision "11" of Paragraph B of Article "THIRD" of my Will and add the following sentence in its place: If any beneficiary named in any of subdivisions "1" through "11" of this Paragraph B of this Article THIRD does not survive me, I direct that the share (or shares) and the life interest in such share (or shares) of such deceased beneficiary shall be divided among the beneficiaries named in subdivisions "1" through "11" of this Paragraph B of this Article THIRD, who do survive me, in the proportion that the share (or shares) of each such surviving beneficiary bears (or bear) to the total shares of all such surviving beneficiaries. Fourth: Except as modified herein, I ratify, confirm and republish my said Will of August 2, 1965. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 12th day of January, 1968. William Griffith Wilson (L.S.) WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON The foregoing instrument was signed, sealed, published and declared by WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON, the testator named herein, as and for a FIRST CODICIL to his Last Will and Testament dated August 2, 1965, in our presence and in the presence of each of us, at 460 Park Avenue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- AA money leaves the Fellowship: Bill Wilson's Previous Will - 2nd day of August 1965 I, WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON, residing in Bedford Hills, County of Westchester, State of New York, being of sound and disposing mind and memory, do hereby make, publish and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament, hereby revoking all former Wills and Codicils by me at any time heretofore made. FIRST: I have entered into an agreement, dated April 29, 1963, with Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. of 305 East 45th Street, New York, New York under which royalties may become payable to me with respect to certain books or other material of which I may be the author or which I may prepare for publication, as more particularly set forth in the said agreement (which agreement, together with all modifications, renewals or extensions thereof is hereinafter referred to as the "Royalty Agreement"). Under the present terms of the Royalty Agreement, I have the right to bequeath to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, a life interest in the royalties payable after my death and I also have the right to grant to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, the power to designate in her Last Will and Testament, duly admitted to probate, persons selected by her who are living at the time of her death who shall be entitled to receive, in such proportions as my said wife may designate, life interests after her death in all or part of the royalties. If at the time of my death, I have the right under the Royalty Agreement to bequeath to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, a life interest in the royalties payable after my death, I give and bequeath to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, a life interest in such royalties, to the extent that I have the right to do so under the Royalty Agreement, and I also grant to my said wife, to the extent that I have the right to do so under the Royalty Agreement, the power to select in her Last Will and Testament, duly admitted to probate, persons living at the time of her death who are to receive a life interest after her death in all or part of such royalties in such proportions as my said wife may designate. If my wife, LOIS DURNHAM WILSON, shall not survive me, I direct that all of the right, title or interest that I may have at the time of my death in or to any royalties under the Royalty Agreement shall be divided into twenty (20) equal shares which shall be disposed of as follows: A. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to my sister, HELEN EVANS, if she shall survive me. B. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my sister, DOROTHY STRONG, if she shall survive me. C. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my brother-in-law, DR. LEONARD STRONG, if he shall survive me. D. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my cousin, HOWARD WILSON, if he shall survive me. E. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my brother-in-law, ROGERS BURNHAM, if he shall survive me. F. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to LAURA BURNHAM (who is the wife of my brother-in-law Rogers Burnham), if she shall survive me. G. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my brother-in-law, DR. LYMAN BURNHAM, if he shall survive me. H. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to FLORENCE BURNHAM (who is the wife of my brother-in-law, Dr. Lyman Burnham), if she shall survive me. I. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my sister-in-law, BARBARA JONES, if she shall survive me. J. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to NELL WING, if she shall survive me. K. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to HARRIET SEVERINO, if she shall survive me. If my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, shall not survive me and if any beneficiary named in any paragraph of Paragraphs "A" through "K" of this Article "FIRST" shall not survive me, I direct that the share (or shares) and the life interests in such share (or shares), of such deceased beneficiary shall be divided among the beneficiaries named in Paragraphs "A" through "K" of this Article "FIRST" who shall survive me in the proportion that the share (or shares) of each such surviving beneficiary bears (or bear) to the total shares of all such surviving beneficiaries. SECOND: I give, devise and bequeath all of the rest, residue and remainder of my estate, whether real, personal or mixed, of whatsoever kind and nature and wheresoever situate, of which I may die seized or possessed, or in which I may have any interest, or over which I may have any power of appointment or testamentary disposition (hereinafter referred to as my residuary estate), to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, if she shall survive me. THIRD: If my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, shall not survive me, I direct that my residuary estate shall be disposed of as follows: A. If at the time of my death I am the owner of a home (presently owned by my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON) located at Stepping Stones, Bedfords Hills, New York, I give, devise and bequeath the said home together with all furniture, furnishings, carpets, rugs, drapes and other household appurtenances that I may own at the time of my death and which are then located in my said home in equal shares to AL-ANON FAMILY GROUPS HEADQUARTERS, INC. of 125 East 23rd Street, New York, New York and the GENERAL SERVICE BOARD OF A.A., INC. of 305 East 45th Street, New York, New York. B. I direct that the balance of my residuary estate shall be divided into twenty (20) equal shares which shall be disposed of as follows: 1. I give, devise and bequeath three of such shares to my sister, HELEN EVANS, if she shall survive me. 2. I give, devise and bequeath two of such shares to my sister, DOROTHY STRONG, if she shall survive. 3. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to my brother-in-law, DR. LEONARD STRONG, if he shall survive me. 4. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to my cousin, HOWARD WILSON, if he shall survive me. 5. I give, devise and bequeath two of such shares to my brother-in-law, ROGERS BURNHAM, if he shall survive me. 6. I give, devise and bequeath three of such shares to LAURA BURNHAM (the wife of my brother-in-law ROGERS BURNHAM), if she shall survive me. 7. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to my brother-in-law, DR. LYMAN BURNHAM, if he shall survive me. 8. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to FLORENCE BURNHAM (the wife of my brother-in-law DR. LYMAN BURNHAM), if she shall survive me. 9. I give, devise and bequeath two of such shares to my sister-in-law, BARBARA JONES, if she shall survive me. 10. I give devise and bequeath three of such shares to NELL WING, if she shall survive me. 11. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to HARRIET SEVERINO, if she shall survive me. If any beneficiary named in any subdivision of subdivisions "1" through "11" of this Paragraph "B" of this Article "THIRD" shall not survive me, the share of such deceased beneficiary shall be divided among the beneficiaries named in subdivisions "1" through "11" of this Paragraph "B" of this Article "THIRD" who shall survive me in the proportion that the share of each such surviving beneficiary bears to the total shares of all such surviving beneficiaries. FOURTH: If any person named herein as devisee, legatee or beneficiary, and I, should die simultaneously or under such circumstances that it is difficult or impracticable to determine that one of us has survived the other, the provisions herein relating to such person shall be given effect as if I had survived such person. FIFTH: My Executrix shall have full power and authority in her absolute and uncontrolled discretion to hold and retain any of the property coming into her hand hereunder in the same form of investment as that in which it is received by her, although it may not be of the character of investments permitted by law to executors, including, but not limited to, the right to continue the operation of any business in which I may be engaged at the time of my death, for so long a period as she in her solo, absolute and uncontrolled discretion, may deem proper. She shall also have full power and authority, in her absolute and uncontrolled discretion, to improve, sell or lease for any period although it may extend beyond the duration of the administration of the estate, but not to exceed twenty-one years, for any price and with any provisions for renewal or renewals which she shall deem advisable, or mortgage or exchange the whole or any part of the property, real or personal, at any time held by her hereunder, for such price and upon such terms and conditions as may to her seem advisable. My executrix in making investments and reinvestments shall not be limited to securities of the character permitted for the investment of trust funds by the laws of the State of New York or any other state, but instead shall have power in her discretion at any time and from time to time to invest in, and to purchase and hold for investment, such securities, including common and preferred stocks and/or any other type or kind of property, including non-income-producing securities or property and any so-called wasting investment as she in her absolute and uncontrolled discretion shall deem advisable, and from time to time to alter and vary any investment at any time made or held. I specifically authorize my Executrix to hold uninvested any part of my estate or funds for such time or times as she in her sole and uncontrolled judgment may deem advisable. I have given my Executrix the unusual power to purchase and hold non-income-producing property and wasting investments and even to hold funds uninvested because I do not wish to limit her in her investment or reinvestment of the estate and so possibly prevent nor meeting some economic emergency which I cannot now anticipate. I desire her to be free to purchase and hold such property as she may, in her sole and uncontrolled discretion, deem necessary at any time to protect the corpus of the estate from depletion. No purchaser at any sale made by my Executrix shall be bound to inquire into the expediency, propriety, validity or necessity of any sale made by her or to see to or be liable for the application of the purchase moneys arising therefrom. My Executrix shall have the power in her discretion to vote in person or by proxy all stock held by her; to assent to any action or non-action, to enter into or consent to any reorganization, lease or sale, to pay out of any fund administered hereunder to any committee, representative, agent or depositary, any assessments, expenses, contributions and sums of money in connection with any securities held by her; to exchange the securities held by her for other securities issued in connection with such arrangement and to accept and retain such other securities so received, anything herein to the contrary notwithstanding; to register any property in the name of her nominees or in her own name, or to hold the property unregistered or in such other form that title shall pass by delivery, but without thereby increasing or decreasing her liability as Executrix and, generally, to exercise in respect to all securities held by her all the same rights and powers as are or may be lawfully exercised by persons owning similar propery in their own right. I give to my Executrix, in connection with the administration of my estate, or in connection with the purchase, management or sale of any securities or other property held by her as Executrix, power to employ agents, custodians, depositaries, accountants, attorneys, investment counsel or other advisers, to delegate to them discretionary powers and to compensate them for their services as an expense of the administration of my estate. I give to my Executrix power to insure or otherwise protect any personal property constituting part of my estate. In making any division or distribution of my estate, my Executrix shall have full power to make such division or distribution in cash or in kind or partly in cash and partly in kind and to allot to any separate beneficiary, in equal or unequal proportions, specific securities or property or undivided interests therein, to fix the value of any part of the property so divided or distributed, and the value so fixed by her shall be binding and conclusive upon all persons having any interest therein. SIXTH: I nominate and appoint my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, to be the Executrix of this Will. If my wife LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, should predecease me or shall fail to qualify as Executrix or having qualified shall fail to continue to act as Executrix, I nominate and appoint, in the following order, BERNARD B. SMITH of 460 Park Avenue, New York, New York, LEONARD H. STEIBEL of 460 Park Avenue, New York, New York, and MICHAEL ALEXANDER of 460 Park Avenue, New York, New York, to be the substitute Executor in the place and stead of my said wife or of any previous substitute Executor who may have predeceased me or who shall have failed to qualify as Executor or having qualified shall fail to continue as Executor. Whenever the word "Executor" is used in this Last Will and Testament, it shall be deemed to refer (unless the context shall indicate otherwise) to the Executrix or substitute Executor then qualified and acting. I direct that no Executrix or substitute Executor shall be required to give any bond or other security in the State of New York or elsewhere. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 2nd day of August 1965. WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON (L.S.) WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON The foregoing instrument was subscribed, sealed, published and declared by WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON, the Testator above named, as and for his LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT, in our presence and in the presence of each of us, and we at his request and in his presence and at the same time and in the presence of each other, subscribed our names and residences as attesting witnesses this 2nd day of August 1965. LEONARD H. STEIBEL residing at Hilldale Lane Sands Point, N.Y. ELEANOR P. FISHER residing at 78-31 264 St. Glen Oaks, Floral Park, N.Y. MICHAEL ALEXANDER residing at 73-12 35 Ave. Queens, N.Y., N.Y. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5611. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/27/2009 10:57:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Books only during the Fall of 1939! The first pamphlet wasn't until mid-1940 when the office published the Houston Press articles. Posted on silkworth.net http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/houston_press1940.html The foreword to the 2nd edition was written about 15 years later so the error in memory (Bill's) is not unusual as to the time-line. The office was of course sending out Big Books beginning in early April of 39. PS Don't forget to celebrate the 70th birthday of our book on April 10, 2009. This was the date of publication listed on the copyright. John B - - - - From: "Mitchell K." (mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com) Hi Katie, The first official pamphlet published by the Alcoholic Foundation was simply titled "AA." It was basically a series of newspaper articles written by Larry Jewell who moved from Cleveland, Ohio to Houston, Texas after he sobered up and was sponsored by Clarence Snyder. Larry was offered a job with the Houston Press by its owner as Larry was an excellent reporter before his drinking took over. The books were the Big Book first published in April 1939. Mitchell Klein - - - - Original messafrom from katiebartlett79 (katiebartlett79 at yahoo.co.uk) Subject: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? Foreword to second edition, page xviii: "[5 months after the 1st ed. of the Big Book was published in April 1939,] in the fall of 1939 [in September] Fulton Oursler, then editor of Liberty, printed a piece in his magazine, called "Alcoholics and God." This brought a rush of 800 frantic inquiries into the little New York office which meanwhile had been established. Each inquiry was painstakingly answered; pamphlets and books were sent out ..... By the end of 1939 it was estimated that 800 alcoholics were on their way to recovery." My group and I would like to know if anyone knows what literature was sent out when it states that "pamphlets and books were sent out" from the New York AA office during the period running from September to December of 1939. Thanking u kindly, Katie from Barking Big Book Study IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5612. . . . . . . . . . . . When did Helen Wynn die? From: chris fuccione . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/29/2009 2:35:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have a quick question. Is Helen Wynn still alive? I assume not. But when did she die? - - - - > A. I give and bequeath to HELEN WYNN [Bill changed his Will to take 10% of the royalties from his wife Lois and give them to his mistress Helen], of Pleasantville, New York, if she survives me, a life interest in ten percent (10%) of such royalties. If the said HELEN WYNN does not survive me, I direct that the said ten percent (10%) of such royalties shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions of Paragraphs B or C, as the case my be of this Article FIRST. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5613. . . . . . . . . . . . Barney Silkworth 1930 - 2009 From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/28/2009 8:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII It is with much sadness that I inform you of Barney Silkworth's obituary & funeral plans (nephew of Dr. William D. Silkworth, M.D.): http://woolleyfh.com/index.php?p=obituary_view&id=61622 - - - - Barney Silkworth, 78, of Oceanport died on Friday, March 27, at home after a long illness. He was born in Long Branch and graduated from Long Branch High School in 1949. He served in the US Navy from 1953-54 and graduated from Trenton State College in 1955. Mr. Silkworth worked for the Long Branch Board of Education for just over fifty years, and retired in July of 2005. For 43 years, he taught industrial arts, serving as the department head for industrial and fine arts for several years. At the time of his retirement, Mr. Silkworth oversaw the Board of Education buildings and grounds. He also served as the Building Inspector for the Borough of Oceanport for nearly twenty years. Mr. Silkworth was a talented craftsman and wood carver. His projects ranged from small bird carvings to building and renovating boats and houses. He was a former member of the Shore Shop Teachers' Association, the Building Inspectors' Association, the Long Branch Ice Boat and Yacht Club, and the Oceanport Republican Club. He also served for many years on the Oceanport Planning Board. Mr. Silkworth was predeceased by his parents, Russell and Elsa Kraft Silkworth, and his brother, William D. Silkworth. He is survived by his wife of 49 years, Barbara Becker Silkworth; his daughter, Stacy Silkworth, Long Branch; his son, William O. Silkworth, and daughter- in- law, Denise, and grandchildren, Samuel and Henry, all of Oceanport. He also leaves his sister-in-law, Adelaide Silkworth, of Hickory, NC; brother-in-law, Steven Becker, and his wife Maryann of Oceanport. He leaves cousins, several nieces, nephews, great and great-great nieces and nephews. A Celebration of Life Service will be held at St. Luke's Methodist Church, 535 Broadway, Long Branch, on Saturday, April 4 at10 a.m. The family will receive visitors after the service at the church. In lieu of flowers the family asks that you consider contributions in his name to The Cancer Institute of New Jersey, Tower Two Fifth Floor, 120 Albany Street, New Brunswick, NJ 08901-9919, research of Dr. Dale Schaar; or St. Barnabas Hospice and Palliative Care Center, 95 Old Short Hills Road, 1st Floor, West Orange, NJ 07052. You may light a candle of remembrance for Mr. Silkworth on the opposite page. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5614. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? From: schaberg43 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/28/2009 6:06:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The first AA pamphlet came out in April 1939: In the New York Archive of GSO, there is a copy of a 'pamphlet' that was made up and distributed very shortly after the book was published. The book was published on April 10, 1939 and two weeks later on April 24 there is a letter from Ruth Hock to an S. Jenkins in New York City which starts out: "We are wondering why we have not heard from you regarding our pamphlet on "Alcoholics Anonymous" (Document 1939-253) The 'pamphlet'in the archive (Documents 1939-230 to 233) are four pieces of half-sized paper (5.5" x 8.5") that have been pre-printed on both sides - producing 8 pages of text. The first page is a letter "Thank you for your enquiry..." signed by "Works Publishing Company" and the following seven sides contain excerpts from the book, including: five paragraphs from the "Doctor's Opinion" followed by similarly short selections from "There is a Solution," "More About Alcoholism," "To Wives," "The Family Afterwards," "To Employers," and a quote from one of the personal stories in the rear (taken from page 393 of the first printing of the book). I suspect that this is the 'pamphlet' mentioned here. Best, Old Bill --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "katiebartlett79" wrote: > > Foreword to second edition, page xviii: > > "[5 months after the 1st ed. of the Big Book was > published in April 1939,] in the fall of 1939 > [in September] Fulton Oursler, then editor > of Liberty, printed a piece in his magazine, > called "Alcoholics and God." This brought a > rush of 800 frantic inquiries into the little > New York office which meanwhile had been > established. Each inquiry was painstakingly > answered; pamphlets and books were sent out > .... By the end of 1939 it was estimated that > 800 alcoholics were on their way to recovery." > > My group and I would like to know if anyone > knows what literature was sent out when it > states that "pamphlets and books were sent > out" from the New York AA office during the > period running from September to December of > 1939. > > Thanking u kindly, > > Katie from Barking Big Book Study > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5615. . . . . . . . . . . . Ignatia''s voyage from Ireland to America in April 1896 From: Fiona Dodd . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/28/2009 5:23:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII On further research of the emmigration records I have found that the Gavin Family sailed from Queenstown(now Cobh) in Cork to Philadelphia USA on April 2nd 1896, arriving in Philadelphia on 17th April 1896. The Gavin family were not "two boaters", they sailed directly from Queenstown to Philadelphia, as has been reported in other accounts. The terms two-boater and three-boater were coined to describe Irish-American families whose meandering migratory paths to the United States had begun with a sea voyage from Ireland to Newfoundland. They sailed on the SS Indiana which was built in 1873. She belonged to the International Navigation Co of New Jersey, which later became the American Line. This was a 3,104 gross ton ship, length 343ft x beam 43ft, one funnel, two masts, iron construction, single screw and a speed of 12 knots. There was accommodation for 46-1st, 132-intermediate and 789-3rd class passengers. Built by W.Cramp & Sons, Philadelphia, she was launched on 25/3/1873. She commenced her first voyage on 27/10/1873 when she sailed from Philadelphia for Queenstown (Cobh) and Liverpool. On 6/3/1889 she was chartered to Red Star Line and completed a single round voyage from Antwerp to New York. In 1891 she was fitted with triple expansion engines and rebuilt to accommodate intermediate and 3rd class passengers only. On 1/12/1897 she commenced her last voyage from Liverpool to Philadelphia and 28/3/1898 sailed from Philadelphia for Seattle, where she was sold for service on the Pacific. On 3/4/1909 she was wrecked at Cape Tosco, Mexico. Below is a transcript of the details recorded for the Gavin Family. Name: Pat GAVIN Date of departure: 2 April 1896 Port of departure: Queenstown Destination port: Philadelphia Destination country: USA Date of Birth: Age: Adult Sex: Male Occupation: Labr Notes: Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 3 Name: Barbara GAVIN Date of departure: 2 April 1896 Port of departure: Queenstown Destination port: Philadelphia Destination country: USA Date of Birth: Age: Adult Marital Status: Married Sex: Female Occupation: Wife Notes: Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 3 Name: Bgt GAVIN Date of departure: 2 April 1896 Port of departure: Queenstown Destination port: Philadelphia Destination country: USA Date of Birth: Age: Child Marital Status: Sex: Female Occupation: Child Notes: Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 3 passenger transcript details Name: Pat GAVIN Date of departure: 2 April 1896 Port of departure: Queenstown Passenger destination port: Philadelphia, USA Passenger destination: Philadelphia, USA Date of Birth: Age: Child Marital status: Sex: Male Occupation: Son Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 3 Ship: INDIANA Official Number: Master's name: Thompson Steamship Line: Where bound: Philadelphia, USA Square feet: 2456 Registered tonnage: 2426 Passengers on voyage: 58 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5616. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: When did Helen Wynn die? From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/31/2009 8:56:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "chris fuccione" wrote: > > I have a quick question. Is Helen Wynn still > alive? > > I assume not. But when did she die? > - - - - If someone has a better source, disregard this. Assuming that Helen Wynn was using that name at the time of her death, and that she is included in the Social Security Death Index, I believe she must have been the one who died in Moroni, Comoros in March 1978. The last address of that (American) Helen Wynn is listed as "Europe," and the Helen Wynn who knew Bill Wilson had been living in Ireland at the time of Bill's death. Caveats: Helen Wynn was originally her stage name although I'm assuming it was her legal name when Bill put her in his will. She was born in Utah (see Francis Hartigan, most of whose information seems to have come from a 1939 NYT article about her) as Helen Simis. She seems never to have used the name of her husband, Shepperd Strudwick. Not everyone ends up in the Social Security Death records, and if she did not I have clearly found the wrong Helen Wynn. She must have paid into Social Security, however, if she worked for the Grapevine and so would be expected to be on the list. Whether that is the correct death record or not, I am reasonably sure that she was neither "22 years younger than Lois" as some sources say, or "22 years younger than Bill" as other sources have it. She was born around 1907 which would make her 12 years younger than Bill. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5617. . . . . . . . . . . . What are the words to the Texas Prayer? From: priscilla_semmens . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/30/2009 10:22:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII April 1, 1940 - Larry J. of Houston is said to have written "The Texas Prayer," used to open AA meetings in Texas. Does anyone have the words to this prayer? - - - - From the moderator: Googling for AA and "Texas Prayer" gives a reference to Bill Pittman, "Stepping Stones to Recovery," p. 257, where Bill gave the following prayer and claimed that this was the Texas Prayer: ____________________ Our Father, we come to You as a friend. You have said that, where two or three are gathered in Your name, there You will be in the midst. We believe You are with us now. We believe this is something You would have us do, and that it has Your blessing. We believe that You want us to be real partners with You in this business of living, accepting our full responsibility, and certain that the rewards will be freedom, and growth, and happiness. For this, we are grateful. We ask You, at all times, to guide us. Help us daily to come closer to You, and grant us new ways of living our gratitude. ____________________ Can anyone verify whether this is actually a prayer written back in 1940? It does not sound like language and phraseology from 1940 to me. I would be willing to stand corrected on that however. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5618. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: What are the words to the Texas Prayer? From: hartsell . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/31/2009 4:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have heard this or similar wording at larger Open Speaker meetings in Texas over the past 40+ years, but have no way of knowing if THIS is the referenced one, or IF there is one known as The Texas Prayer. sherry c.h. -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of priscilla_semmens Subject: What are the words to the Texas Prayer? April 1, 1940 - Larry J. of Houston is said to have written "The Texas Prayer," used to open AA meetings in Texas. Does anyone have the words to this prayer? - - - - From the moderator: Googling for AA and "Texas Prayer" gives a reference to Bill Pittman, "Stepping Stones to Recovery," p. 257, where Bill gave the following prayer and claimed that this was the Texas Prayer: ____________________ Our Father, we come to You as a friend. You have said that, where two or three are gathered in Your name, there You will be in the midst. We believe You are with us now. We believe this is something You would have us do, and that it has Your blessing. We believe that You want us to be real partners with You in this business of living, accepting our full responsibility, and certain that the rewards will be freedom, and growth, and happiness. For this, we are grateful. We ask You, at all times, to guide us. Help us daily to come closer to You, and grant us new ways of living our gratitude. ____________________ Can anyone verify whether this is actually a prayer written back in 1940? It does not sound like language and phraseology from 1940 to me. I would be willing to stand corrected on that however. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5619. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: When did Helen Wynn die? From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/31/2009 8:26:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Evidence of ship passenger lists (ships docking in NYC) shows Helen Simis (b. Jan 17 1907) in 1930 and Helen Strudwick (b Jan 17 1907) in the 1940s. The Helen Wynn who died at Moroni in 1978 was b. Jan 17 1907: she is therefore the correct Helen Wynn. She was b. in Utah, the daughter of Richard and Lina Simis (both b. 1874) and had several siblings. Her husband Shepperd Strudwick (jr), 1907-1983, was married from 1977 to another wife but is recorded as having had a son by a previous marriage -- presumably the Shepperd Strudwick who was b. Los Angeles June 14 1944, mother's maiden name Simis. Shepperd Strudwick Jr (real name) and Helen Simis (Helen Wynn) were m. May 10, 1936. He m. his second wife by 1947, third in 1958, fourth (Mary Jeffrey) in 1977. Their son, Shepperd Strudwick III attended the Harvey School in Katonah, translated the French play L'Ete in 1973 and has been connected with the Williamstown Theatre, but I don't know where he is now, or if he's still alive (he'd only be 64). > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > From: corafinch@yahoo.com > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:56:24 +0000 > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: When did Helen Wynn die? > > --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, > "chris fuccione" wrote: > > > > I have a quick question. Is Helen Wynn still > > alive? > > > > I assume not. But when did she die? > > > - - - - > > If someone has a better source, disregard this. Assuming that Helen Wynn was using that name at the time of her death, and that she is included in the Social Security Death Index, I believe she must have been the one who died in Moroni, Comoros in March 1978. The last address of that (American) Helen Wynn is listed as "Europe," and the Helen Wynn who knew Bill Wilson had been living in Ireland at the time of Bill's death. > > Caveats: Helen Wynn was originally her stage name although I'm assuming it was her legal name when Bill put her in his will. She was born in Utah (see Francis Hartigan, most of whose information seems to have come from a 1939 NYT article about her) as Helen Simis. She seems never to have used the name of her husband, Shepperd Strudwick. Not everyone ends up in the Social Security Death records, and if she did not I have clearly found the wrong Helen Wynn. She must have paid into Social Security, however, if she worked for the Grapevine and so would be expected to be on the list. > > Whether that is the correct death record or not, I am reasonably sure that she was neither "22 years younger than Lois" as some sources say, or "22 years younger than Bill" as other sources have it. She was born around 1907 which would make her 12 years younger than Bill. > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5620. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: What are the words to the Texas Prayer? From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/2/2009 11:09:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Glenn The prayer was written in March (not April) 1940 by Larry J the founder of AA in Texas (Cleveland, OH is the parent group of Texas). I have a collection of copies of correspondence among Larry J, Ruth Hock and Bobbi B. Included in the material is a copy of the prayer that is word for word the same as the text cited in your message. The prayer's title was "A.A. Prayer" and it concluded with "Amen." I don't believe that usage of the prayer went too far beyond Houston and don't know where Pittman got the idea that it did. There is much myth circulating regarding Texas AA (e.g. the "Texas Prayer" and "Texas Preamble") that have fragments of fact supplemented by anecdotal embellishments that are not factual. Larry J's downfall came almost as quickly as his miraculous rescue by the Cleveland Group. Larry was always in very poor physical condition - drunk or sober. He returned to IV drug use around the Spring of 1941 and then returned to drinking shortly thereafter and was never able to sober up again beyond brief intervals. Larry J passed away in May 1944. Arthur S -----Original Message----- From: priscilla_semmens Subject: What are the words to the Texas Prayer? April 1, 1940 - Larry J. of Houston is said to have written "The Texas Prayer," used to open AA meetings in Texas. Does anyone have the words to this prayer? - - - - From the moderator: Googling for AA and "Texas Prayer" gives a reference to Bill Pittman, "Stepping Stones to Recovery," p. 257, where Bill gave the following prayer and claimed that this was the Texas Prayer: ____________________ Our Father, we come to You as a friend. You have said that, where two or three are gathered in Your name, there You will be in the midst. We believe You are with us now. We believe this is something You would have us do, and that it has Your blessing. We believe that You want us to be real partners with You in this business of living, accepting our full responsibility, and certain that the rewards will be freedom, and growth, and happiness. For this, we are grateful. We ask You, at all times, to guide us. Help us daily to come closer to You, and grant us new ways of living our gratitude. ____________________ Can anyone verify this? Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5621. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/3/2009 6:25:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII There were a number of reprints circulated by the NY Office after publication of the Big Book in 1939 and prior to publication of the Houston Press articles by Larry J in early 1940. The reprints were often published in 9x5 inch booklet (or pamphlet) format. Shortly after relocating from Cleveland to Houston, Larry J sent a January 28, 1940 letter to Ruth Hock requesting copies of literature which he identified as Dr Fosdick's review of the Big Book, a July 1939 Journal-Lancet article by Dr Silkworth (pre-publication portions of which were included in "The Doctor's Opinion") and something called the "Mt. Airy Sanitarium bulletin" (which I've yet to see). These literature items are likely part of the "pamphlets" mentioned by Bill W in the Foreword to the Second Edition as being sent out in late 1939. There could have been other items reprinted as well, the NY office was always on the lookout for favorable public relations references. The published booklet (or pamphlet) of Larry J's articles first occurred with limited printings in February and March 1940. After Larry J received a release from the Houston Press, regular reprinting occurred from April 1940 on. The booklet also includes a supplement added to Larry J's articles that listed the Twelve Steps. Larry discussed the Steps in his articles but didn't list them. The booklet also includes the July 1939 Lancet-Journal article by Dr Silkworth. All of this follows closely after the time period mentioned by Bill W (i.e. the Fall to end of 1939). However, as noted below by Mitchell K, the publication is generally considered the AA Fellowship's first piece of "official" literature explicitly financed and approved by the Alcoholic Foundation. With the exception of the Big Book, the publication seems to be the only other piece of AA literature predominantly written by an AA member. The public relations blessing that sparked both the need for, and wide-spread distribution of, the booklet (or pamphlet) was likely the nation-wide publicity generated by the Rockefeller Dinner on February 8, 1940. As far as errors in Bill's memory, he states in the Foreword to the Second Edition that the Cleveland Group started in 1937 and he also omits mention of the 1939 Cleveland Plain Dealer articles which followed shortly after the Liberty Magazine article. The Cleveland Plain Dealer articles, in my judgment, had a much more profound effect than the Liberty magazine article. The combination of the two resulted in an outpouring of appeals for help in Cleveland that quickly propelled Cleveland membership to a level that dwarfed the combined membership of Akron and NY and kept it that way for some time after. Cheers Arthur -----Original Message----- From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Barton Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:58 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? Books only during the Fall of 1939! The first pamphlet wasn't until mid-1940 when the office published the Houston Press articles. Posted on silkworth.net http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/houston_press1940.html The foreword to the 2nd edition was written about 15 years later so the error in memory (Bill's) is not unusual as to the time-line. The office was of course sending out Big Books beginning in early April of 39. PS Don't forget to celebrate the 70th birthday of our book on April 10, 2009. This was the date of publication listed on the copyright. John B - - - - From: "Mitchell K." (mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com) Hi Katie, The first official pamphlet published by the Alcoholic Foundation was simply titled "AA." It was basically a series of newspaper articles written by Larry Jewell who moved from Cleveland, Ohio to Houston, Texas after he sobered up and was sponsored by Clarence Snyder. Larry was offered a job with the Houston Press by its owner as Larry was an excellent reporter before his drinking took over. The books were the Big Book first published in April 1939. Mitchell Klein - - - - Original messafrom from katiebartlett79 (katiebartlett79 at yahoo.co.uk) Subject: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? Foreword to second edition, page xviii: "[5 months after the 1st ed. of the Big Book was published in April 1939,] in the fall of 1939 [in September] Fulton Oursler, then editor of Liberty, printed a piece in his magazine, called "Alcoholics and God." This brought a rush of 800 frantic inquiries into the little New York office which meanwhile had been established. Each inquiry was painstakingly answered; pamphlets and books were sent out ..... By the end of 1939 it was estimated that 800 alcoholics were on their way to recovery." My group and I would like to know if anyone knows what literature was sent out when it states that "pamphlets and books were sent out" from the New York AA office during the period running from September to December of 1939. Thanking u kindly, Katie from Barking Big Book Study ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5622. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First Black Woman In AA? From: jbendzinski . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/1/2009 1:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I read on the International Women's Conference website that Bertha C. of Kansas City, MO was one of the first black women in Alcoholics Anonymous with lasting sobriety. The first conference was in 1965 and she was on the organizing committee. But I am having a world of trouble getting information about her or any other early African-American women in program. If you discover anything, please share with me! - - - - From the moderator: http://silkworth.net/aagrowth/iaawc_history.html says "Bertha C. informed me how she was the only black woman in AA for a time until Vernetta W. came in to the program." But it gives no date for when she got sober. Does anyone know more about her? Does anyone in Kansas City have any information about when Bertha came into the fellowship? GFC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5623. . . . . . . . . . . . Early Black A.A. From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/6/2009 9:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The black A.A. people in north central Indiana were not the first in A.A. But we know more about their stories and teachings than any other group of early black A.A. men and women in the U.S. and Canada. ______________________________ Glenn C., "The Factory Owner & the Convict: Lives and Teachings of the A.A. Old Timers" http://hindsfoot.org/kfoc1.html In 1948, a man named Bill Hoover and a woman named Jimmy Miller became the first two black people to join A.A. in north central Indiana. Jimmy owned a highly successful bar in South Bend right across the street from the Studebaker automobile plant. Four chapters of this book are devoted to telling their story, much of it in Jimmy Miller's own words. PART SIX. Bill H. and Jimmy M.: Winning Inclusion for Black Alcoholics Chapter 17. Jimmy's Bar Chapter 18. The Interracial Group Chapter 19. Meetings and Steps in Early A.A. Chapter 20. He Knew It Was a God ______________________________ http://hindsfoot.org/nblack1.html http://hindsfoot.org/nblack2.html Jimmy Miller's Story: The First Lady of Black A.A. in the St. Joseph River Valley ______________________________ Glenn C., The St. Louis Gambler & the Railroad Man: Lives and Teachings of the A.A. Old Timers http://hindsfoot.org/kstl1.html Two other major early black leaders in that part of Indiana were Brownie (Harold Brown) in South Bend and Goshen Bill (William Henry Caldwell) in Elkhart and Goshen. Three chapters in this book are devoted to Brownie's story and his message, and three additional chapters to Goshen Bill. Again, most of this is in their own words. PART ONE. Brownie Chapter 1. The Professional Gambler and the St. Louis Blues Chapter 2. Down and Out in South Bend Chapter 3. Gratitude and the Man Who Had No Arms or Legs PART FOUR. Goshen Bill Chapter 9. Sleeping in a Dump Truck Chapter 10. Fish Stories and Chickens Flying South Chapter 11. Working the Twelve Steps ______________________________ http://hindsfoot.org/ndigsym.html shows photos of the meeting place called Brownie's at 616 Pierce St. in South Bend, site of annual pilgrimages by the Dignitaries Sympathy groups to honor the memory of the great black A.A. leader Brownie and his friend and fellow A.A. worker Nick Kowalski (an ex-con who got sober in one of the first A.A. prison groups in the United States). People travel from Chicago one month; from East Lansing, Michigan, another month; and sometimes from Bloomington in southern Indiana to give leads at Brownie's and give honor to the great black A.A. leader who started the Saturday evening meeting there (along with Raymond I., whom Brownie sponsored, who is still alive and active). ______________________________ The Wisdom of Goshen Bill http://hindsfoot.org/nkosc3gb.html ______________________________ http://hindsfoot.org/nblack1.html http://hindsfoot.org/nblack2.html http://hindsfoot.org/nblack3.html "Early Black A.A. along the Chicago-Gary-South Bend Axis" The Stories and Memories of Early Black Leaders Told in Their Own Words. Some of the earliest black A.A. groups in the United States were formed c. 1945-48 along an axis running from Chicago eastward through Gary to South Bend, Indiana. These three cities were linked by an interurban rail line called the South Shore Railroad which made it easy for people to travel back and forth. We know much more at present about early black A.A. in this area than we do about any other part of the United States. INCLUDES: (a) Interview with Bill Williams of the Evans Avenue A.A. Group in Chicago (came into A.A. in Chicago in 1945). (b) Jimmy Miller's Story: The First Lady of Black A.A. in the St. Joseph River Valley (c) Bill Williams' Story: Coming from Chicago to speak to the white A.A.'s in South Bend (d) Two early South Bend answers to racism: (1) Brownie's meeting place at 616 Pierce Street, just off Portage Avenue near downtown South Bend, and (2) Bill Hoover's Interracial Group. (e) South Bend in 1948 and 1949 (f) Chicago in 1945: The first black people to join A.A. in Chicago ______________________________ http://hindsfoot.org/ngary1js.html John Shaifer: A major Indiana early black A.A. leader from Gary. His work with prisoners all over the state. His lead and an interview with him. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5624. . . . . . . . . . . . Study of access to and continuance in Alcoholics Anonymous From: loranarcher . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/8/2009 12:47:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The 1990 AA World Services analysis of the AA Triennials Membership surveys noted that one of the surveys' limitations was the lack of information on "drop outs". To provide this information I did an analysis of data from NIAAA 1992 National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey (NLAES) to describe and compare 1) those who never attended AA, 2) those who attended AA and dropped out, and 3) those who continued to attend AA. The key findings from the study are: · These data from a nationally representative sample of US adults with alcohol use disorders revealed a robust significant association of high symptom severity with access, continuation and discontinuation from Alcoholics Anonymous. · The association of high symptom severity and negative life events supports the behavioral economic model of AA access and continuation as proposed in this study. · Variables associated with access to AA were also associated with continuation in AA, except for the variables for gender and education level. Women were less likely to attend AA, but more likely to continue attending AA. College educated respondents were less likely to attend AA, but more likely to continue attending AA. · A sub-group of US adults with severe externalizing disorders, identified in this study, are associated with access to and continuation in AA. The measure of high severity in this study appears to replicate the AA concept of "real alcoholics" as described in Chapter Three of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. · In the US there is a significant geographic regional variation in access to and continuation in AA: Highest access in the West and lowest in the South The complete study report is available online as a Google Knol: A Model of Access to and Continuance in Alcoholics Anonymous http://knol.google.com/k/loran-archer/a-model-of-access-to-and-continuance-i n/33\ nxpux3imfog/4 [6] Loran - - - - Note from the moderator: The full-length paper (whose URL is given above) has some extremely interesting and informative bar graphs which display who is more likely, and who is less likely, to attend AA meetings. Some make good sense by normal AA experience. Having a serious automobile accident because of drinking increases the chance that the alcoholic will start attending AA meetings. Some of the data was surprising to me, however. Loran Archer (who is one of the really great alcoholism researchers) did not find any significant racial differences. Blacks were just as likely as whites to start going to AA meetings under the same circumstances, for example, according to his data. Men are more apt than women to START going to AA meetings. But once they are attending meetings, women are more apt than men to KEEP ON GOING to meetings. Glenn Chesnut IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5625. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First Black Woman In AA? From: Cindy Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/6/2009 10:27:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I recently attended a wonderful all-day event in Washington, DC, which was a celebration of the Cosmopolitan Group, first known as the "Washington Colored Group". Quoting from the program that was given out: "....The Group of approximately 15 men & women....grew to nearly 30 members in the second year." (That would be 1946.) -cm P.S. Here in Philadelphia, one of our long-time black female members, Julia S., will soon be celebrating 50 years. - - - - From: jm48301@aol.com (jm48301 at aol.com) Of possible interest: http://www.internationalwomensconference.org/history.html - - - - From: jenny andrews (jennylaurie1 at hotmail.com) Then of course there is "Jim's Story" in the Big Book: "This physician, one of the earliest members of AA's first black group, tells how freedom came as he worked among his people." (His people, presumably the black community). Anecdotally I've heard that in the Troubles in northern Ireland AA meetings were one of the few places where Catholics and Protestants sat down together in peace; and blacks and whites in apartheid south Africa (though perhaps that was a clandestine arrangement). Maybe the respective GSO's could confirm .... IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5626. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house From: Keith . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/27/2009 6:29:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I agree with Clyde G. Regardless of why Bill W. did it, we know that in the years before rehab centers, alcoholics had to detox each other, and it was 'necessary' to keep whiskey or such in certain homes in those days! I don't defend it in any alcoholic's home, but on the other hand if we have worked the 12 steps, then we can apply BB pg. 101-102. That statement, let us remember, is in the context of having worked all 12 steps. It says at top of page 101 that we should NOT be around such if we are weak. Again the context is that after working steps, we should have some emotional muscle, and be able to be in people's homes without craving, since we have now 'reached a point of neutrality' regarding alcohol. I thought this might be helpful for some of the newer recovering alcoholics on this list. Keith R. --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "CloydG" wrote: > > Perhaps it comes from the practice, described > on page 103 of "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers," > of giving small amounts of alcohol periodically > to alcoholics who were detoxing, over the first > day or two or three, to help keep them from > going into the DTs. > > Clyde G. > - - - - From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com) I do not know if it still is looked on as true, but years ago, they used to say the first 36 hours were the worse for alcoholics, and they had to watch out that withdrawal did not kill the alcoholics. The saying was that drug addicts detoxifying had it rougher than alcoholics but alcoholics could die in those first hours. In the absence of trained medical people some form of gradual withdrawal might be best. My interest would be that we did not do anything to the sufferer to endanger him. - - - - From: jenny andrews (jennylaurie1 at hotmail.com) "Many (sic) of us keep liquor in our homes. We often need it to carry green recruits through a severe hangover..." (Big Book, page 102, fourth edition). However, "These allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all ..." (The Doctor's Opinion, page xxviii op cit my emphasis). So when we say, "It's the first drink that does the damage", it ain't necessarily so. Bill gave Dr Bob a bottle of beer to calm his nerves prior to to his carrying out a surgical procedure on 10 June 1935. As far as we know, and we have no reason to doubt it, that was Dr Bob's last drink, and the date of AA's foundation (Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, page 71 my edition). And how does Dr Bob's advice about keeping out of wet places square with contrary advice in the Big Book, viz: "If you are with a person who wants to eat in a bar, by all means go along... You should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand (to be helpful to others)." (Big Book ibid) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5627. . . . . . . . . . . . Seven-year-old Ignatia sails from Ireland on the SS Indiana From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/10/2009 1:57:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Now with photographs of the ship and harbor. http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia3.html Seven-year-old Ignatia sails from Ireland to America in 1896: emigration records showing the Gavin family sailing from Queenstown (now Cobh) in Cork on the SS Indiana on 2 April 1896, arriving in Philadelphia on 17 April 1896. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo) (See http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html for other material from Fiona on Sister Ignatia.) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5628. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? From: elg3_79 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/11/2009 9:44:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Arthur S" wrote: > > Shortly after relocating from Cleveland to Houston, Larry J sent a January > 28, 1940 letter to Ruth Hock requesting copies of literature which he > identified as Dr Fosdick's review of the Big Book, a July 1939 > Journal-Lancet article by Dr Silkworth (pre-publication portions of which > were included in "The Doctor's Opinion") and something called the "Mt. Airy > Sanitarium bulletin" (which I've yet to see). Pursuant to this, I searched for a while for the mystery document from the Mt. Airy Sanitarium, it having rung a bell somewhere deep in my memory .. Googling turned up towns or areas called "Mt. Airy" which had sanitariums in the first half of the 20th century, very likely treating alcoholics, in Maryland, Colorado and Pennsylvania. Does anyone know which one might be the producer of the bulletin? (Maryland's Garrett Sanitarium is long disused, but there may be traces of the institutions active in the 1930s available in the Philadelphia and Denver areas.) Thanks for the train of thought, Ted G. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5629. . . . . . . . . . . . State liquor agency mentioned in The Doctors Nightmare From: aadavidi . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/12/2009 11:10:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In "DOCTOR BOB'S NIGHTMARE" is the following statement (Big Book page 171): "No beer or liquor was sold in the neighborhood, except at the State liquor agency where perhaps one might procure a pint if he could convince the agent that he really needed it. Without this proof the expectant purchaser would be forced to depart empty handed with none of what I later came to believe was the great panacea for all human ills. Men who had liquor shipped in from Boston or New York by express were looked upon with great distrust and disfavor by most of the good townspeople." Can anyone offer a clear description of the function of the Vermont State liquor agency in the late 1800's and why a person couldn't purchase all he or she wanted? [Dr. Bob was born August 8, 1879 in St. Johnsbury, Vermont, where he was raised. He graduated from Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, in 1902.] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5630. . . . . . . . . . . . Is the silkworth.net site down? From: jm48301 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/12/2009 4:12:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Is there a reason, beyond my own incompetence, why I am unable to access the Silkworth site? I have tried both of these: http://www.silkworth.net/ http://silkworth.net/ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5631. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: State liquor agency mentioned in Doctor Bob''s Nightmare From: jeffyour . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2009 9:18:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII This article from the June 18, 1902 New York Times is an editorial on the issue of Prohibition (of Alcohol), which had been in place in Vermont for fifty years already then. That's why the state agent was circumspect of any request for alcohol. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C00E1D61130E132A2575 BC1A\ 9609C946397D6CF [7] see also: http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBooks/Lalor/llCy868.html which gives dates of passage of the "Maine Law" for several NE US states. Jeffrey A. Your 216.691.0917 home Past Delegate 216.397.4244 work Panel 57, Area 54 216.397.1803 fax ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > In "DOCTOR BOB'S NIGHTMARE" is the following > statement (Big Book page 171): > > "No beer or liquor was sold in the neighborhood, except at the State liquor agency where perhaps one might procure a pint if he could convince the agent that he really needed it. Without this proof the expectant purchaser would be forced to depart empty handed with none of what I later came to believe was the great panacea for all human ills. Men who had liquor shipped in from Boston or New York by express were looked upon with great distrust and disfavor by most of the good townspeople." > > Can anyone offer a clear description of the function of the Vermont State liquor agency in the late 1800's and why a person couldn't purchase all he or she wanted? > > [Dr. Bob was born August 8, 1879 in St. Johnsbury, Vermont, where he was raised. He graduated from Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, in 1902.] > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5633. . . . . . . . . . . . Correct date of Sister Ignatia''s birth: 1 January 1889 From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2009 2:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia4.html "Sister Ignatia: baptismal record (birth certificate) and the passenger manifest for the SS Indiana," from Fiona D. (County Mayo) Sister Ignatia's date of birth, as given in some of the older historical sources, needs to be corrected. Born Bridget Gavin, this photograph of her baptismal record shows that she was born on 1 January 1889. This is the date which should be used. Also photographs of the three sheets of the original passenger manifest showing Sister Ignatia and her family embarking on the SS Indiana. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). - - - - ALL FOUR ITEMS FROM THAT SOURCE http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia1.html Sister Ignatia's birthplace in Ireland Photos of the just discovered ruins of the two-roomed stone cottage where Sister Ignatia Gavin, the Angel of Alcoholics Anonymous, was born on 1 January 1889 at Shanvalley, Burren, in County Mayo. Photos and description (13 July 2008) by the Irish AA historian Fiona D. http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia2.html More on Sister Ignatia's birthplace in Ireland: The Neary family's rental holdings in Griffith's Land Valuation of 1855 When Patrick Gavin and Barbara Neary (Ignatia's father and mother) got married, the couple set up housekeeping in a part of County Mayo where numerous members of the Neary family lived, renting land on the Earl of Lucan's estate. From Irish AA historian and archivist Fiona D. in County Mayo. http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia3.html Seven-year-old Ignatia sails from Ireland to America in 1896 Emigration records showing the Gavin family sailing from Queenstown (now Cobh) in Cork on the SS Indiana on 2 April 1896, arriving in Philadelphia on 17 April 1896, with photographs of the ship and harbor. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia4.html Sister Ignatia: baptismal record (birth certificate) and the passenger manifest for the SS Indiana Sister Ignatia's date of birth, as given in some of the older historical sources, needs to be corrected. Born Bridget Gavin, this photograph of her baptismal record shows that she was born on 1 January 1889. This is the date which should be used. Also photographs of the three sheets of the original passenger manifest showing Sister Ignatia and her family embarking on the SS Indiana. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5634. . . . . . . . . . . . Markings AA archives newsletter From: Cindy Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2009 8:40:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Mornin' All- Could someone help me out by giving me the web address for "Markings"? I can't seem to find it... Thanks. -cm `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> - - - - From the moderator: Markings - Your Archives Interchange (Newsletter) http://www.aa.org/lang/en/subpage.cfm?page=24 CURRENT ISSUE: http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_winter08.pdf IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5635. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Is the silkworth.net site down? From: doclandis@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2009 12:00:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII "This web site silkworth.net is currently unavailable due to exceeded monthly traffic quota. Please visit again later." I hope someone can shed some better light on the situation. Mark - - - - From: Buzz G (buzzgould at gmail.com) When I go to both of those pages, I get this message: "This website www.silkworth.net is currently unavailable due to exceeded monthly traffic quota. Please visit again later." A few years ago this use to happen at the end of the month. Not good to see this error message on the 11th :( - - - - From: "Ben Humphreys" (blhump272 at sctv.coop) You did the right thing by asking a question. It works every time. Ben - - - - "Exceeded monthly traffice" also from: DOROTHY BENSON (dd11983 at yahoo.com) "Bob McK." (bobnotgod2 at att.net) - - - - Original message from (jm48301 at aol.com) > > > Is there a reason, beyond my own incompetence, > why I am unable to access the Silkworth site? > > I have tried both of these: > > _http://www.silkworthttp:/_ (http://www.silkworth.net/) > > _http://silkworth.http_ (http://silkworth.net/) > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5636. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Is the silkworth.net site down? From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2009 5:17:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Could someone on this listserv familiar with the workings of the silkworth site inform us whether the screen showing excessive monthly use of site (or whatever the phrase is) in fact represents hacking into the site and possibly a virus released? If not, does anyone know how long the site will be down? - - - - From: "allan_gengler" (agengler at wk.net) The host states: "This website silkworth.net is currently unavailable due to exceeded monthly traffic quota. Please visit again later." So too many people have visited it or some hack ran a denial of service against it. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5637. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Markings AA archives newsletter From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2009 5:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The Markings portal webpage is www.aa.org/lang/en/subpage.cfm?page=24, from which you can access copies. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5638. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Markings AA archives newsletter From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2009 5:09:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Link is below (or enter the word "markings" in the "Search our site" box and it will take you there. http://aa.org/results.cfm?results=markings Sign up for a digital subscription. You can use the AA.org search function to get to all kinds of goodies on the web site. Cheers Arthur IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5639. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Daily Reflections From: buckjohnson41686 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2009 2:41:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I don't see them in the 2nd printing (nov 1990) :) -- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "tomper87" wrote: > > I have a first printing of The Daily Reflections > which does not include the listing of The > Twelve Steps and The Twelve Traditions. Can > anyone tell me at which printing they were > added to the book? > > Thank you. > > Tom P. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5640. . . . . . . . . . . . Niacin, AA, Bill W and Abram Hoffer From: Fiona Dodd . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/18/2009 1:08:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Vitamin B-3: Niacin and Its Amide by A. Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D. The first water soluble vitamins were numbered in sequence according to priority of discovery. But after their chemical structure was determined they were given scientific names. The third one to be discovered was the anti-pellagra vitamin before it was shown to be niacin. But the use of the number B-3 did not stay in the literature very long. It was replaced by nicotinic acid and its amide (also known medically as niacin and its amide). The name was changed to remove the similarity to nicotine, a poison. The term vitamin B-3 was reintroduced by my friend Bill W., co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, (Bill Wilson). We met in New York in 1960. Humphry Osmond and I introduced him to the concept of mega vitamin therapy. We described the results we had seen with our schizophrenic patients, some of whom were also alcoholic. We also told him about its many other properties. It was therapeutic for arthritis, for some cases of senility and it lowered cholesterol levels. Bill was very curious about it and began to take niacin, 3 g daily. Within a few weeks fatigue and depression which had plagued him for years were gone. He gave it to 30 of his close friends in AA and persuaded them to try it. Within 6 months he was convinced that it would be very helpful to alcoholics. Of the thirty, 10 were free of anxiety, tension and depression in one month. Another 10 were well in two months. He decided that the chemical or medical terms for this vitamin were not appropriate. He wanted to persuade members of AA, especially the doctors in AA, that this would be a useful addition to treatment and he needed a term that could be more readily popularized. He asked me the names that had been used. I told him it was originally known as vitamin B-3. This was the term Bill wanted. In his first report to physicians in AA he called it "The Vitamin B-3 Therapy." Thousands of copies of this extraordinary pamphlet were distributed. Eventually the name came back and today even the most conservative medical journals are using the term vitamin B-3. Bill became unpopular with the members of the board of AA International. The medical members who had been appointed by Bill, felt that he had no business messing about with treatment using vitamins. They also "knew" vitamin B-3 could not be therapeutic as Bill had found it to be. For this reason Bill provided information to the medical members of AA outside of the National Board, distributing three of his amazing pamphlets. They are now not readily available. Vitamin B-3 exists as the amide in nature, in nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD). Pure nicotinamide and niacin are synthetics. Niacin was known as a chemical for about 100 years before it was recognized to be vitamin B-3. It is made from nicotine, a poison produced in the tobacco plant to protect itself against its predators, but in the wonderful economy of nature which does not waste any structures, when the nicotine is simplified by cracking open one of the rings, it becomes the immensely valuable vitamin B-3. Vitamin B-3 is made in the body from the amino acid tryptophan. On the average 1 mg of vitamin B-3 is made from 60 mg of tryptophan, about 1.5% Since it is made in the body it does not meet the definition of a vitamin; these are defined as substances that can not be made. It should have been classified with the amino acids, but long usage of the term vitamin has given it permanent status as a vitamin. The 1.5% conversion rate is a compromise based upon the conversion of tryptophan to N-methyl nicotinamide and its metabolites in human subjects. I suspect that one day in the far distant future none of the tryptophan will be converted into vitamin B-3 and it then will truly be a vitamin. According to Horwitt [1], the amount converted is not inflexible but varies with patients and conditions. For example, women pregnant in their last three months convert tryptophan to niacin metabolites three times as efficiently as in non-pregnant females. Also there is evidence that contraceptive steroids, estrogens, stimulate tryptophan oxygenase, the enzyme that converts the tryptophan into niacin. This observation raises some interesting speculations. Women, on average, live longer then men. It has been shown for men that giving them niacin increases their longevity. [2] Is the increased longevity in women the result of greater conversion of tryptophan into niacin under the stimulus of their increase in estrogen production? Does the same phenomenon explain the decrease in the incidence of coronary disease in women? The best-known vitamin deficiency disease is pellagra. More accurately it is a tryptophan deficiency disease since tryptophan alone can cure the early stages. Pellagra was endemic in the southern U.S.A. until the beginning of the last world war. It can be described by the four D's: dermatitis, diarrhea, dementia and death. The dementia is a late stage phenomenon. In the early stages it resembles much more the schizophrenias, and can only with difficulty be distinguished from it. The only certain method used by early pellagrologists was to give their patients in the mental hospitals small amounts of nicotinic acid. If they recovered they diagnosed them pellagra, if they did not they diagnosed them schizophrenia. This was good for some of their patients but was not good for psychiatry since it prevented any continuing interest in working with the vitamin for their patients who did not recover fast, but who might have done so had they given them a lot more for a much longer period of time, the way we started doing this in Saskatchewan. I consider it one of the schizophrenic syndromes. Indications I have been involved in establishing two of the major uses for vitamin B-3, apart from its role in preventing and treating pellagra. These are its action in lowering high cholesterol levels [3] and in elevating high density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (HDL), and its therapeutic role in the schizophrenias and other psychiatric conditions. It has been found helpful for many other diseases or conditions. These are psychiatric disorders including children with learning and behavioral disorders, the addictions including alcoholism and drug addiction, the schizophrenias, some of the senile states. Its efficacy for a large number of both mental and physical conditions is an advantage to patients and to their doctors who use the vitamin, but is difficult to accept by the medical profession raised on the belief that there must be one drug for each disease, and that when any substance appears to be too effective for many conditions, it must be due entirely to its placebo effect, something like the old snake oils. I have thought about this for a long time and have within the past year become convinced that this vitamin is so versatile because it moderates or relieves the body of the pernicious effect of chronic stress. It therefore frees the body to carry on its routine function of repairing itself more efficiently. The current excitement in medicine is the recognition that hyperoxidation, the formation of free radicals, is one of the basic damaging processes in the body. These hyperexcited molecules destroy molecules and damage tissues at the cellular level and at the tissue level. All living tissue which depends on oxygen for respiration has to protect itself against these free radicals. Plants use one type of antioxidants and animals use another type. Fortunately there is a wide overlap and the same antioxidants such as vitamin C are used by both plants and animals. There is growing recognition that the system adrenaline -> adrenochrome plays a major role in the reactions to stress. I have elaborated this in a further report for this journal. [4] The catecholamines, of which adrenalin is the best known example, and the aminochromes, of which adrenochrome is the best known example, are intimately involved in stress reactions. Therefore to moderate the influence of stress or to negate it, one must use compounds which prevent these substances from damaging the body. Vitamin B-3 is a specific antidote to adrenalin, and the antioxidants such as vitamin C, Vitamin E, beta carotene, selenium and others protect the body against the effect of the free radicals by removing them more rapidly from the body. Any disease or condition which is stress related ought therefore to respond to the combined use of vitamin B-3 and these antioxidants provided they are all given in optimum doses, whether small or large as in orthomolecular therapy. I will therefore list briefly the many indications for the use of vitamin B-3. For each condition I will describe one case to illustrate the therapeutic response. For each condition I can refer to hundreds and thousands of case histories and have already in the literature described many of them in detail. [5] Psychiatric 1) The Schizophrenias. I have reviewed this for this journal. [6] 2) Children with Learning and/or Behavioral Disorders. In 1960 seven year-old Bruce came to see me with his father. Bruce had been diagnosed as mentally retarded. He could not read, could not concentrate, and was developing serious behavioral problems such as cutting school without his parents' knowledge. He was being prepared for special classes for the retarded. He excreted large amounts of kryptopyrrole, the first child to be tested. I started him on nicotinamide, one gram tid. Within four months he was well. He graduated from high school, is now married, has been fully employed and has been paying income tax. He is one case out of about 1500 I have seen since 1960. Current treatment is more complicated as described in this Journal. [7] 3) Organic Confusional States, non-Alzheimers forms of dementia, electroconvulsive therapy-induced memory disturbances. In 1954 I observed how nicotinic acid relieved a severe case of post ECT amnesia in one month. Since then I have routinely given it in conjunction with ECT to markedly decrease the memory disturbance that may occur during and after this treatment. I would never give any patient ECT without the concomitant use of nicotinic acid. It is very helpful, especially in cardiovascular-induced forms of dementia as it reverses sludging of the red blood cell and permits proper oxygenation of the cells of the body. For further information see Niacin Therapy in Psychiatry. [8] In September 1992, Mr. C., 76 years-old, requested help with his memory. He was terribly absentminded. If he decided to do something, by the time he arrived where he wanted to do it he had forgotten what it was he wanted to do. His short-term memory was very poor and his long-term memory was beginning to be affected. I started him on a comprehensive vitamin program including niacinamide 1.5 G daily. Within a month he began to improve. I added niacin to his program. By February 1993 he was normal. April 26, 1993, he told me he had been so well he had concluded he no longer needed any niacin and decreased the dose from 3.0 G to 1.5 G daily. He remained on the rest of the program. Soon he noted that his short term memory was failing him again. I advised him to stay on the full dose the rest of his life. 4) An antidote against d-LSD,9,10 and against adrenochrome. [5] 5) Alcoholism. Bill W. conducted the first clinical trial of the use of nicotinic for treating members of Alcoholics Anonymous. [11] He found that 20 out of thirty subjects were relieved of their anxiety, tension and fatigue in two months of taking this vitamin, 1 G tid. I found it very useful in treating patients who were both alcoholic and schizophrenic. The first large trial was conducted by David Hawkins who reported a better than 90% recovery rate on about 90 patients. Since then it has been used by many physicians who treat alcoholics. Dr. Russell Smith in Detroit has reported the largest series of patients. [12] Physical 1. Cardiovascular Of the two major findings made by my research group in Saskatchewan, the nicotinic acid-cholesterol connection is well known and nicotinic acid is used worldwide as an economical, effective and safe compound for lowering cholesterol and elevating high density cholesterol. As a result of my interest in nicotinic acid, Altschul, Hoffer and Stephen [3] discovered that this vitamin, given in gram doses per day, lowered cholesterol levels. Since then it was found it also elevates high density lipoprotein cholesterol thus bringing the ratio of total over HDL to below 5. In the National Coronary Study, Canner [2] showed that nicotinic acid decreased mortality and prolonged life. Between 1966 and 1975, five drugs used to lower cholesterol levels were compared to placebo in 8341 men, ages 30 to 64, who had suffered a myocardial infarction at least three months before entering the study. About 6000 were alive at the end of the study. Nine years later, only niacin had decreased the death rate significantly from all causes. Mortality decreased 11% and longevity increased by two years. The death rate from cancer was also decreased. This was a very fortunate finding because it led to the approval by the FDA of this vitamin in mega doses for cholesterol problems and opened up the use of this vitamin in large doses for other conditions as well. This occurred at a time when the FDA was doing its best not to recognize the value of megavitamin therapy. Its position has not altered over the past four decades. Our finding opened up the second major wave of interest in vitamins. The first wave started around 1900 when it was shown that these compounds were very effective in small doses in curing vitamin deficiency diseases and in preventing their occurrence. This was the preventive phase of vitamin use. The second wave recognized that they have therapeutic properties not directly related to vitamin deficiency diseases but may have to be used in large doses. This was the second or present wave wherein vitamins are used in therapy for more than deficiency diseases. Our discovery that nicotinic acid was an hypocholesterolemic compound is credited as the first paper to initiate the second wave and paved the way for orthomolecular medicine which came along several years later. 2. Arthritis I first observed the beneficial effects of vitamin B-3 in 1953 and 1954. I was then exploring the potential benefits and side effects from this vitamin. Several of the patients who were given this vitamin would report after several months that their arthritis was better. At first this was a surprise since in the psychiatric history I had taken I had not asked about joint pain. This report of improvement happened so often I could not ignore it. A few years later I discovered that Prof. W. Kaufman had studied the use of this vitamin for the arthritides before 1950 and had published two books describing his remarkable results. [13] Since that time this vitamin has been a very important component of the orthomolecular regimen for treating arthritis. The following case illustrates both the response which can occur and the complexity of the orthomolecular regimen. Patients who are early into their arthritis respond much more effectively and are not left with residual disability. K.V. came to my office April 15, 1982. She was in a wheelchair pushed by her husband. He was exhausted, depressed, and she was one of the sickest patients I have ever seen. She weighed under 90 pounds. She sat in the chair on her ankles which were crossed beneath her body because she was not able to straighten them out. Her arms were held in front of her, close to her body, and her fingers were permanently deformed and claw-like. She told me she had been deeply depressed for many years because of the severe pain and her major impairment. As she was being wheeled into my office I saw how ill she was and immediately concluded there was nothing I could do for her, and had to decide how I could let her know without sending her even deeper into despair. However I changed my mind when she suddenly said, "Dr. Hoffer, I know no one can ever cure me but if you could only help me with my pain. The pain in my back is unbearable. I just want to get rid of the pain in my back." I realized then she had a lot of determination and inner strength and that it was worthwhile to try and help her. She began to suffer from severe pain in her joints in 1952. In 1957 it was diagnosed as arthritis. Until 1962 her condition fluctuated and then she had to go into a wheelchair some part of the day. She was still able to walk although not for long until 1967. In 1969 she depended on the wheelchair most of the time, and by 1973 she was there permanently. For awhile she was able to propel herself with her feet. After that she was permanently dependent on help. For the three years before she saw me she had gotten some home care but most of the care was provided by her husband. He had retired from his job when I first saw them. He provided the nursing care equivalent to four nurses on 8 hour shifts including holiday time. He had to carry her to the bathroom, bathe her, cook and feed her. He was as exhausted as she was but he was able to carry on. She was severely deformed, especially her hands, suffered continuous pain, worse in her arms, and hips and her back. Her ankles were badly swollen and she had to wear pressure bandages. Her muscles also were very painful most of the day. She was able to feed herself and to crochet with her few useful fingers, but it must have been extremely difficult. She was not able to write nor type which she used to do with a pencil. A few months earlier she had been suicidal. On top of this severe pain and discomfort she had no appetite, was not hungry and a full meal would nauseate her. Her skin was dry, she had patches of eczema, and she had white areas in her nails. I advised her to eliminate sugar, potatoes, tomatoes and peppers, (about 10% of arthritics have allergic reactions to the solanine family of plants). She was to add niacinamide 500 mg four times daily (following the work of W. Kaufman), ascorbic acid 500 mg four times daily (as an anti-stress nutrient and for subclinical scurvy), pyridoxine 250 mg per day (found to have anti-arthritic properties by Dr. J. Ellis), zinc sulfate 220 mg per day (the white areas in her nails indicated she was deficient in zinc), flaxseed oil 2 tablespoons and cod liver oil 1 tablespoon per day (her skin condition indicated she had a deficiency of omega 3 essential fatty acids). The detailed treatment of arthritis and the references are described in my book. [14] One month later a new couple came into my room. Her husband was smiling, relaxed and cheerful as he pushed his wife in in her chair. She was sitting with her legs dangling down, smiling as well. I immediately knew that she was a lot better. I began to ask her about her various symptoms she had had previously. After a few minutes she impatiently broke in to say, "Dr. Hoffer, the pain in my back is all gone." She no longer bled from her bowel, she no longer bruised all over her body, she was more comfortable, the pain in her back was easily controlled with aspirin and was gone from her hips, (it had not helped before). She was cheerful and laughed in my office. Her heart was regular at last. I added inositol niacinate 500 mg four times daily to her program. She came back June 17, 1982, and had improved even more. She was able to pull herself up from the prone position on her bed for the first time in 15 years, and she was free of depression. I increased her ascorbic acid to 1 gram four times daily and added vitamin E 800 IU. Because she had shown such dramatic improvement I advised her she need no longer come to see me. September 1, 1982, she called me on the telephone. I asked her how she was getting along. She said she was making even more progress. I then asked her how had she been able to get to the phone. She replied she was able to get around alone in her chair. Then she added she had not called for herself but for her husband. He had been suffering from a cold for a few days, she was nursing him, and she wanted some advice for him. After another visit October 28, 1983, I wrote to her doctor "Today Mrs. K.V. reported she had stayed on the whole vitamin program very rigorously for 18 months, but since that time had slacked off somewhat. She is regaining a lot of her muscle strength, can now sit in her wheelchair without difficulty, can also wheel herself around in her wheelchair but, of course, can not do anything useful with her hands because her fingers are so awful. She would like to become more independent and perhaps could do so if something could be done about her fingers and also about her hip. I am delighted she has arranged to see a plastic surgeon to see if something can be done to get her hand mobilized once more. I have asked her to continue with the vitamins but because she had difficulty taking so many pills she will take a preparation called Multijet which is available from Portland and contains all the vitamins and minerals and can be dissolved in juice. She will also take inositol niacinate 3 grams daily." I saw her again March 24, 1988. About 4 of her vertebra had collapsed and she was suffering more pain which was alleviated by Darvon. It had not been possible to treat her hands surgically. She had been able to eat by herself until six months before this last visit. She had been taking small amounts of vitamins. She was able to use a motorized chair. She had been depressed. I wrote to her doctor, "She had gone off the total vitamin program about two or three years ago. It is very difficult for her to swallow and I can understand her reluctance to carry on with this. I have therefore suggested that she take a minimal program which would include inositol niacinate 3 grams daily, ascorbic acid 1 gram three times, linseed oil 2 capsules and cod liver oil 2 capsules. Her spirits are good and I think she is coming along considering the severe deterioration of her body as a result of the arthritis over the past few decades." She was last seen by her doctor in the fall of 1989. Her husband was referred. I saw him May 18, 1982. He complained of headaches and a sense of pressure about his head present for three years. This followed a series of light strokes. I advised him to take niacin 3 grams daily plus other vitamins including vitamin C. By September 1983 he was well and when seen last March 24, 1988 was still normal. 3. Juvenile Diabetes Dr. Robert Elliot, Professor of Child Health Research at University of Auckland Medical School is testing 40,000 five-year old children for the presence of specific antibodies that indicate diabetes will develop. Those who have the antibodies will be given nicotinamide. This will prevent the development of diabetes in most the children who are vulnerable. According to the Rotarian for March 1993 this project began 8 years ago and has 3200 relatives in the study. Of these, 182 had antibodies and 76 were given nicotinamide. Only 5 have become diabetic compared to 37 that would have been expected. Since 1988 over 20,100 school children have been tested. None have become diabetic compared to 47 from the untested comparable group. A similar study is underway in London, Ontario. 4. Cancer Recent findings have shown that vitamin B-3 does have anti-cancer properties. This was discussed at a meeting in Texas in 1987, Jacobson and Jacobson. [15] The topic of this international conference was "Niacin, Nutrition, ADP-Ribosylation and Cancer," and was the 8th conference of this series. Niacin, niacinamide and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) are interconvertable via a pyridine nucleotide cycle. NAD, the coenzyme, is hydrolyzed or split into niacinamide and adenosine dinucleotide phosphate (ADP-ribose). Niacinamide is converted into niacin, which in turn is once more built into NAD. The enzyme which splits ADP is known as poly (ADP-ribose) polymerase, or poly (ADP) synthetase, or poly (ADP-ribose) transferase. Poly (ADP-ribose) polymerase is activated when strands of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) are broken. The enzyme transfers NAD to the ADP-ribose polymer, binding it onto a number of proteins. The poly (ADP-ribose) activated by DNA breaks helps repair the breaks by unwinding the nucleosomal structure of damaged chromatids. It also may increase the activity of DNA ligase. This enzyme cuts damaged ends off strands of DNA and increases the cell's capacity to repair itself. Damage caused by any carcinogenic factor, radiation, chemicals, is thus to a degree neutralized or counteracted. Jacobson and Jacobson, conference organizers, hypothesized that niacin prevents cancer. They treated two groups of human cells with carcinogens. The group given adequate niacin developed tumors at a rate only 10% of the rate in the group deficient in niacin. Dr. M. Jacobson is quoted as saying, "We know that diet is a major risk factor, that diet has both beneficial and detrimental components. What we cannot assess at this point is the optimal amount of niacin in the diet... The fact that we don't have pellagra does not mean we are getting enough niacin to confer resistance to cancer." About 20 mg per day of niacin will prevent pellagra in people who are not chronic pellagrins. The latter may require 25 times as much niacin to remain free of pellagra. Vitamin B-3 may increase the therapeutic efficacy of anti-cancer treatment. In mice, niacinamide increased the toxicity of irradiation against tumors. The combination of normobaric carbogen with nicotinamide could be an effective method of enhancing tumor radiosensitivity in clinical radiotherapy where hypoxia limits the outcome of treatment. Chaplin, Horsman and Aoki16 found that nicotinamide was the best drug for increasing radiosensitivity compared to a series of analogues. The vitamin worked because it enhanced blood flow to the tumor. Nicotinamide also enhanced the effect of chemotherapy. They suggested that niacin may offer some cardioprotection during long-term adriamycin chemotherapy. Further evidence that vitamin B-3 is involved in cancer is the report by Nakagawa, Miyazaki, Okui, Kato, Moriyama and Fujimura [17] that in animals there is a direct relationship between the activity of nicotinamide methyl transferase and the presence of cancer. Measuring the amount of N-methyl nicotinamide was used to measure the activity of the enzyme. In other words, in animals with cancer there is increased destruction of nicotinamide, thus making less available for the pyridine nucleotide cycle. This finding applied to all tumors except the solid tumors, Lewis lung carcinoma and melanoma B-16. Gerson [18] treated a series of cancer patients with special diets and with some nutrients including niacin 50 mg 8 to 10 times per day, dicalcium phosphate with vitamin D, vitamins A and D, and liver injections. He found that all the cancer cases were benefited in that they became healthier and in many cases the tumors regressed. In a subsequent report Gerson elaborated on his diet. He now emphasized a high potassium over sodium diet, ascorbic acid, niacin, brewers yeast and lugols iodine. Right after the war there was no ready supply of vitamins as there is today. I would consider the use of these nutrients in combination very original and enterprising. Dr. Gerson was the first physician to emphasize the use of multivitamins and some multiminerals. More details are in Hoffer. [19] Additional evidence that vitamin B-3 is therapeutic for cancer arises from the National Coronary Study, Canner. [2] 5. Concentration Camp Survivors In 1960 I planned to study the effect of nicotinic acid on a large number of aging people living in a sheltered home. A new one had been built. I approached the director of this home, Mr. George Porteous. I arranged to meet him and told him what I would like to do and why. I gave him an outline of its properties, its side effects and why I thought it might be helpful. Mr. Porteous agreed and we started this investigation. A short while after my first contact Mr. Porteous came to my office at University Hospital. He wanted to take nicotinic acid himself, he told me, so that he could discuss the reaction more intelligently with people living in his institution. He wanted to know if it would be safe to do so. That fall he came again to talk to me and this time he said he wanted to tell me what had happened to him. Then I discovered he had been with the Canadian troops who had sailed to Hong Kong in 1940, had been promptly captured by the Japanese and had survived 44 months in one of their notorious prisoner of war camps. Twenty-five percent of the Canadian soldiers died in these camps. They suffered from severe malnutrition from starvation and nutrient deficiency. They suffered from beri beri, pellagra, scurvy, infectious diseases, and brutality from the guards. Porteous, a physical education instructor, had been fit weighing about 190 pounds when he got there. When he returned home he weighed only 2/3rds of that. On the way home in a hospital ship the soldiers were fed and given extra vitamins in the form of rice polishings. There were few vitamins available then in tablets or capsules. He seemingly recovered but had remained very ill. He suffered from both psychological and physical symptoms. He was anxious, fearful and slightly paranoid. Thus, he could never be comfortable sitting in a room unless he sat facing the door. This must have arisen from the fear of the guards. Physically he had severe arthritis. He could not raise his arms above his shoulders. He suffered from heat and cold sensitivity. In the morning he needed his wife's help in getting out of bed and to get started for the day. He had severe insomina. For this he was given barbiturates in the evening and to help awaken him in the morning, he was given amphetamines. Later I read the growing literature on the Hong Kong veterans and there is no doubt they were severely and permanently damaged. They suffered from a high death rate due to heart disease, crippling arthritis, blindness and a host of other conditions. Having outlined his background he then told me that two weeks after he started to take nicotinic acid, 1 gram after each meal, he was normal. He was able to raise his arms to their full extension, and he was free of all the symptoms which had plagued him for so long. When I began to prepare my report [20] I obtained his Veterans Administration Chart. It came to me in two cardboard boxes and weighed over ten pounds, but over 95% of it was accumulated before he started on the vitamin. For the ten years after he started on the vitamin there was very little additional material. One could judge the efficacy of the vitamin by weighing the chart paper before and after he started on it. Porteous remained well as long as he stayed on the vitamin until his death when he was Lieutenant Governor of Saskatchewan. In 1962, after having been well for two years, he went on a holiday to the mountains with his son and he forgot to take his nicotinic acid with him. By the time he returned home almost the entire symptomatology had returned. Porteous was enthusiastic about nicotinic acid and began to tell all his friends about it. He told his doctor. His doctor cautioned him that he might damage his liver. Porteous replied that if it meant he could stay as well as he was until he died from a liver ailment he would still not go off it. His doctor became an enthusiast as well and within a few years had started over 300 of his patients on the vitamin. He never saw any examples of liver disease from nicotinic acid. I have treated over 20 prisoners from Japanese camps and from European concentration camps since then with equally good results. I estimated that one year in these camps was equivalent to 4 years of aging, i.e. four years in camp would age a prisoner the equivalent of 16 years of normal living. George Porteous wanted every prisoner of war from the eastern camps treated as he had been. He was not successful in persuading the Government of Canada that nicotinic acid would be very helpful so he turned to fellow prisoners, both in Canada (Hong Kong Veterans) and to American Ex-Prisoners of War. These American veterans suffered just as much as had the Canadian soldiers since they were treated in exactly the same abysmal way. The ones who started on the vitamin showed the same response. Recently one of these soldiers, a retired officer, wrote to me after being on nicotinic acid 20 years that he felt great, owed it to the vitamin and that when his arteries were examined during a simple operation they were completely normal. He wrote, "About two years ago, I was hit, was bleeding down the neck. The MDs took the opportunity to repair me. They said the arteries under the ears look like they had never been used." There is an important lesson from the experiences of these veterans and their response to megadoses of nicotinic acid. This is that every human exposed to severe stress and malnutrition for a long enough period of time will develop a permanent need for large amounts of this vitamin and perhaps for several others. This is happening on a large scale in Africa where the combination of starvation, malnutrition and brutality is reproducing the conditions suffered by the veterans. Those who survive will be permanently damaged biochemically, and will remain a burden to themselves and to the community where they live. Will society have the good sense to help them recover by making this vitamin available to them in optimum doses? Doses The optimum dose range is not as wide as it is for ascorbic acid, but it is wide enough to require different recommendations for different classes of diseases. As is always the case with nutrients, each individual must determine their own optimum level. With nicotinic acid this is done by increasing the dose until the flush (vasodilation) is gone, or is so slight it is not a problem. One can start with as low a dose as 100 mg taken three times each day after meals and gradually increase it. I usually start with 500 mg each dose and often will start with 1 gram per dose especially for cases of arthritis, for schizophrenics, for alcoholics and for a few elderly patients. However, with elderly patients it is better to start small and work it up slowly. No person should be given nicotinic acid without explaining to them that they will have a flush which will vary in intensity from none to very severe. If this is explained carefully, and if they are told that in time the flush will not be a problem, they will not mind. The flush may remain too intense for a few patients and the nicotinic acid may have to be replaced by a slow release preparation or by some of the esters, for example, inositol niacinate. The latter is a very good preparation with very little flush and most find it very acceptable even when they were not able to accept the nicotinic acid itself. It is rather expensive but with quantity production the price might come down. The flush starts in the forehead with a warning tingle. Then it intensifies. The rate of the development of the flush depends upon so many factors it is impossible to predict what course it will follow. The following factors decrease the intensity of the flush: a cold meal, taking it after a meal, taking aspirin before, using an antihistamine in advance. The following factors make the flush more intense: a hot meal, a hot drink, an empty stomach, chewing the tablets and the rate at which the tablets break down in liquid. From the forehead and face the flush travels down the rest of the body, usually stopping somewhere in the chest but may extend to the toes. With continued use the flush gradually recedes and eventually may be only a tingling sensation in the forehead. If the person stops taking the vitamin for a day or more the sequence of flushing will be re-experienced. Some people never do flush and a few only begin to flush after several years of taking the vitamin. With nicotinamide there should be no flushing but I have found that about 2% will flush. This may be due to rapid conversion of the nicotinamide to nicotinic acid in the body. When the dose is too high for both forms of the vitamin the patients will suffer from nausea at first, and then if the dose is not reduced it will lead to vomiting. These side effects may be used to determine what is the optimum dose. When they do occur the dose is reduced until it is just below the nausea level. With children the first indication may be loss of appetite. If this does occur the vitamin must be stopped for a few days and then may be resumed at a lower level. Very few can take more than 6 grams per day of the nicotinamide. With nicotinic acid it is possible to go much higher. Many schizophrenics have taken up to 30 grams per day with no difficulty. The dose will alter over time and if on a dose where there were no problems, they may develop in time. Usually this indicates that the patient is getting better and does not need as much. I have divided all patients who might benefit from vitamin B-3 into the following categories. Category 1. These are people who are well or nearly well, and have no obvious disease. They are interested in maintaining their good health or in improving it. They may be under increased stress. The optimum dose range varies between 0.5 to 3 grams daily. The same doses apply to nicotinamide. Category 2. Everyone under physiological stress, such as pregnancy and lactation, suffering from acute illness such as the common cold or flu, or other diseases that do not threaten death. All the psychiatric syndromes are included in this group including the schizophrenias and the senile states. It also includes the very large group of people with high blood cholesterol levels or low HDL when it is desired to restore these blood values to normal. The dose range is 1 gram to 10 grams daily. For nicotinamide the range is 1 1/2 g to 6 g. Nicotinamide does not affect cholesterol levels. Side Effects Here are Dr. John Marks' conclusions. [21] "A tingling or flushing sensation in the skin after relatively large doses (in excess of 75 mg) of nicotinic acid is a rather common phenomenon. It is the result of dilation of the blood vessels that is one of the natural actions of nicotinic acid and one for which it is used therapeutically. Whether this should therefore be regarded as a true adverse reaction is a moot point. The reaction clears regularly after about 20 minutes and is not harmful to the individual. It is very rare for this reaction to occur at less than three times the RDA, even in very sensitive individuals. In most people much larger quantities are required. The related substance nicotinamide only very rarely produces this reaction and in consequence this is the form generally used for vitamin supplementation. "Doses of 200 mg to 10 g daily of the acid have been used therapeutically to lower blood cholesterol levels under medical control for periods of up to 10 years or more and though some reactions have occurred at these very high dosages, they have rapidly responded to cessation of therapy, and have often cleared even when therapy has been continued. "In isolated cases, transient liver disorders, rashes, dry skin and excessive pigmentation have been seen. The tolerance to glucose has been reduced in diabetics and patients with peptic ulcers have experienced increased pain. No serious reaction have been reported however even in these high doses. The available evidence suggests that 10 times the RDA is safe (about 100 mg)." Dr. Marks is cautious about recommending that doses of 100 mg are safe. In my opinion, based upon 40 years of experience with this vitamin the dose ranges I have recommended above are safe. However with the higher doses medical supervision is necessary. Jaundice is very rare. Fewer that ten cases have been reported in the medical literature. I have seen none in ten years. When jaundice dose occur it is usually an obstructive type and clears when the vitamin is discontinued. I have been able to get schizophrenic patients back on nicotinic acid after the jaundice cleared and it did not recur. Four serious cases have been reported, all involving a sustained release preparation. Mullin, Greenson & Mitchell (1989) [22] reported that a 44 year-old man was treated with crystalline nicotinic acid, 6 grams daily, and after 16 months was normal. He then began to take a sustained-release preparation, same dose. Within three days he developed nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, dark urine. He had severe hepatic failure and required a liver transplant. Henkin, Johnson & Segrest found three patients who developed hepatitis with sustained release nicotinic acid. When this was replaced with crystalline nicotinic acid there was no recurrent liver damage. [23] Since jaundice in people who have not been taking nicotinic acid is fairly common it is possible there is a random association. The liver function tests may indicate there is a problem when in fact there is not. Nicotinic acid should be stopped for five days before the liver function tests are given. One patient who had no problem with nicotinic acid for lowering cholesterol switched to the slow release preparations and became ill. When he resumed the original nicotinic acid he was well again with no further evidence of liver dysfunction. I have not seen any cases reported anywhere else. I have described much more fully the side effects of this vitamin elsewhere. [24] Inositol hexaniacinate is an ester of inositol and nicotinic acid. Each inositol molecule contains six nicotinic acid molecules. This ester is broken down slowly in the body. It is as effective as nicotinic acid and is almost free of side effects. There is very little flushing, gastrointestinal distress and other uncommon side effects. Inositol, considered one of the lesser important B vitamins, does have a function in the body as a messenger molecule and may add something to the therapeutic properties of the nicotinic acid. Conclusion Vitamin B-3 is a very effective nutrient in treating a large number of psychiatric and medical diseases but its beneficial effect is enhanced when the rest of the orthomolecular program is included. The combination of vitamin B-3 and the antioxidant nutrients is a great anti-stress program. Reprinted with the permission of the author: Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D. Suite 3 - 2727 Quadra St Victoria, British Columbia V8T 4E5 Canada References 1. Horwitt MK: Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease. Fifth Ed. RS Goodhart and ME Shils. Lea & Febiger, Phil. 1974. 2. Canner PL, Berge KG, Wenger NK, Stamler J, Friedman L, Prineas RJ & Freidewald W: Fifteen year mortality Coronary Drug Project; patients long term benefit with niacin. American Coll Cardiology 8:1245-1255, 1986. 3. Altschul R, Hoffer A & Stephen JD: Influence of Nicotinic Acid on Serum Cholesterol in Man. Arch Biochem Biophys 54:558-559, 1955. 4. Hoffer A: The Schizophrenia, Stress and Adrenochrome Hypothesis. In Press, 1995. 5. Hoffer A: Orthomolecular Medicine for Physicians. Keats Pub, New Canaan, CT, 1989. 6. Hoffer A: The treatment of schizophrenia. In Press 1995. 7. Hoffer A: The Development of Orthomolecular Medicine. In Press, 1995. 8. Hoffer A: Niacin Therapy in Psychiatry. C. C. Thomas, Springfield, IL, 1962. Hoffer A & Osmond H: New Hope For Alcoholics, University Books, New York, 1966. Written by Fannie Kahan. Hoffer A & Walker M: Nutrients to Age Without Senility. Keats Pub Inc, New Canaan, CT, 1980. Hoffer A & Walker M: Smart Nutrients. A Guide to Nutrients That Can Prevent and Reverse Senility. Avery Publishing Group, Garden City Park, New York, 1994. 9. Agnew N & Hoffer A: Nicotinic Acid Modified Lysergic Acid Diethylamide Psychosis. J Ment Science 101:12-27, 1955. 10. Ivanova RA, Milstein GT, Smirnova LS & Fantchenko ND: The Influence of Nicotinic Acid on an Experimental Psychosis Produced by LSD 25. Journal of Neuropathology and Psychiatry of CC Korsakoff 64:1172-1176, 1964. In Russian. Translated by Dr. T.E. Weckowicz. 11. Wilson B: The Vitamin B-3 Therapy: The First Communication to A.A.'s Physicians and A Second Communication to A.A.'s Physicians, 1967 and 1968. 12. Smith RF: A five year field trial of massive nicotinic acid therapy of alcoholics in Michigan. Journal of Orthomolecular Psychiatry 3:327-331, 1974. Smith RF: Status report concerning the use of megadose nicotinic acid in alcoholics. Journal of Orthomolecular Psychiatry 7:52-55, 1978. 13. Kaufman W: Common Forms of Niacinamide Deficiency Disease: Aniacin Amidosis. Yale University Press, New Haven, CT, 1943. Kaufman W: The Common Form of Joint Dysfunction: Its Incidence and Treatment. E.L. Hildreth and Co., Brattelboro, VT, 1949. 14. Hoffer A: Orthomolecular Medicine For Physicians, Keats Pub, New Canaan, CT, 1989. 15. Jacobson M & Jacobson E: Niacin, nutrition, ADP-ribosylation and cancer. The 8th International Symposium on ADP- Ribosylation, Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine, Fort Worth, TX, 1987. Titus K: Scientists link niacin and cancer prevention. The D.O. 28:93-97, 1987. Hostetler D: Jacobsons put broad strokes in the niacin/cancer picture. The D.O. 28:103-104, 1987. 16. Chaplin DJ, Horsman MP & Aoki DS: Nicotinamide, Fluosol DA and Carbogen: a strategy to reoxygenate acutely and chronically hypoxic cells in vivo. British Journal of Cancer 63:109-113, 1990. 17. Nakagawa K, Miyazaka M, Okui K, Kato N, Moriyama Y & Fujimura S: N1-methylnicotinamide level in the blood after nicotinamide loading as further evidence for malignant tumor burden. Jap. J. Cancer Research 82:277-1283, 1991. 18. Gerson M: Dietary considerations in malignant neoplastic disease. A prelimary report. The Review of Gastroenterology 12:419-425, 1945. Gerson M: Effects of a combined dietary regime on patients with malignant tumors. Experimental Medicine and Surgery 7:299-317, 1949. 19. Hoffer A: Orthomolecular Oncology. In, Adjuvant Nutrition in Cancer Treatment, Ed. P. Quillin & R. M. Williams. 1992 Symposium Proceedings, Sponsored by Cancer Treatment Research Foundation and American College of Nutrition. Cancer Treatment Research Foundation, 3455 Salt Creek Lane, Suite 200, Arlington Heights, IL 60005-1090, 331-362, 1994. 20. Hoffer A: Hong Kong Veterans Study. J Orthomolecular Psychiatry 3:34-36, 1974. 21. Marks J: Vitamin Safety. Vitamin Information Status Paper, F. Hoffman La Roche & Co., Basle, 1989. 22. Mullin GE, Greenson JK & Mitchell MC: Fulminant hepatic failure after ingestion of sustained-release nicotinic acid. Ann Internal Medicine 111:253-255, 1989. 23. Henkin Y, Johnson KC & Segrest JP: Rechallenge with crystalline niacin after drug-induced hepatitis from sustained-release niacin. J. American Medical Assn. 264:241-243, 1990. 24. Hoffer A: Niacin Therapy in Psychiatry. C. C. Thomas, Springfield, IL, 1962. Hoffer A: Safety, Side Effects and Relative Lack of Toxicity of Nicotinic acid and Nicotinamide. Schizophrenia 1:78-87, 1969. Hoffer A: Vitamin B-3 (Niacin) Update. New Roles For a Key Nutrient in Diabetes, Cancer, Heart Disease and Other Major Health Problems. Keats Pub, Inc., New Canaan, CT, 1990. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5641. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: State liquor agency mentioned in Doctor Bob''s Nightmare From: Glenn F. Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/18/2009 2:39:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In message #5631 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5631 there are two key paragraphs in the newspaper article which is cited there from the June 18, 1902 New York Times: "The Selectmen of each town appoint a town agent for the dispensing of liquors upon prescription, and most of these agents, who take half the profits, vend vile liquor and break the law by handing it out to any citizen whom they know as a neighbor, be he a drunkard or not, without the formality of asking to see his prescription." "'Blind pigs' abound, and in the large towns outnumber any other single class of places of business. Bogus drug stores with barrooms in the rear are a notable feature of the appointments of these towns and cities. Drinking, therefore, goes on in Vermont as if there were no law against it; its extent is augmented by the secrecy and risk attached to it, but little or none of the liquor sold is fit to drink, and every drink purchased is a toast to disorder and a violation of law." It appears to me that the agents at the state liquor agencies whom Dr. Bob was referring to, were only allowed to dispense alcoholic beverages to people who had a doctor's prescription for it. When I was a child, there were still country doctors who would tell people with heart conditions to drink a sip of whiskey every once in a while over the course of the day, to "calm their nerves" and "help their hearts." There were parts of India during the 1960's where alcoholic beverages were illegal unless you had a certificate from the physician certifying that you were an alcoholic! A friend from India said that there were a large number of people back home who had talked a friendly physician into diagnosing them as alcoholics, even though they weren't. Tommy H. has found a prescription for whiskey on eBay, a prescription written by a physician, dated July 31, 1928, written for a woman in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=765521&image=25187733 7&im\ ages=251877337,251877379,251877417&formats=0,0,0&format=0 [8] So it sounds like you had to have a doctor's prescription for the alcohol in Vermont at that period -- OR -- and this "or" was the operant word -- have a friendly local Vermont liquor agent who would wink his eye and write down on his books that you were an alcoholic who was starting to go into the DT's, so you could get a pint of whiskey from him. Are there any New England historians who know whether this guess on my part might be correct? Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "aadavidi" wrote: > > In "DOCTOR BOB'S NIGHTMARE" is the following > statement (Big Book page 171): > > "No beer or liquor was sold in the neighborhood, except at the State liquor agency where perhaps one might procure a pint if he could convince the agent that he really needed it. Without this proof the expectant purchaser would be forced to depart empty handed with none of what I later came to believe was the great panacea for all human ills. Men who had liquor shipped in from Boston or New York by express were looked upon with great distrust and disfavor by most of the good townspeople." > > Can anyone offer a clear description of the function of the Vermont State liquor agency in the late 1800's and why a person couldn't purchase all he or she wanted? > > [Dr. Bob was born August 8, 1879 in St. Johnsbury, Vermont, where he was raised. He graduated from Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, in 1902.] > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5642. . . . . . . . . . . . Book signed by Dr Bob and Bill W From: kentedavis@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/19/2009 9:01:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have heard of a 12th printing of the first edition that was signed by both Dr Bob (his whole name) and Bill Wilson (his whole name). I was wondering if it was a one of a kind. There were not that many times that Bill and Bob were together with a book to sign, especially signing their whole names. Could this have been signed at the 1950 International Convention in 1950? This book was also signed by Lois and Father Pfau. Were there other times that Bill and Bob were together that they might have signed a book? Does anyone know of other occasions that when Bill and Bob were together after the book was published in 1939, other than the International Convention in 1950? Has anyone seen other books that were signed by both Bill and Bob? Kent D. 8/8/88 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5643. . . . . . . . . . . . Red Bank, New Jersey, AA group From: Stephen Aberle . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/19/2009 3:38:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I am trying to trace the founding (or founders) of the Red Bank Monday night group in Monmouth County, New Jersey. I had thought incorrectly that we were the 2nd oldest group in New Jersey -- we will celebrate the group's 68th anniversary in August. That implies a founding date of August 1941. But I have copies of older meeting books from Dec 1941 and Sept 1942, and Red Bank is not listed. I know AA in NJ started at the 1st meeting in Montclair on May 14th, 1939 and then went to South Orange at the home of Herb Debevoise, continuing what had been started in Montclair. Some of the earliest AA members in Red Bank include Bart Grimsley, Allen Gallagher, and Millie B. Any and all help appreciated! ... Thanx IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5644. . . . . . . . . . . . Pathways to abstinence: positive impact of A.A. From: loranarcher . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/21/2009 12:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have posted the second Knol of my analysis of 1992 Americans, diagnosed as alcohol abuse/dependence, 1) who never attended AA, 2) AA drop outs and 3) AA continued. This analysis is of abstinence outcome. The Knol is PATHWAYS TO ABSTINENCE: IMPACT OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS http://knol.google.com/k/loran-archer/pathways-to-abstinence-impact-of/33nxp ux3i\ mfog/6 [9] Key findings were: -The results of the present study support the efficacy of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous to promote abstinence -In 1992 Americans with alcohol use disorders who continued to attend AA were more likely to achieve abstinence (64%) than those who dropped out of AA (37%) or those who never attended AA (16%) -Abstinence recovery status varies as a function of increasing age and level of severity of alcohol symptoms. -The findings suggest that a substantial portion of the "AA drop outs" attain sobriety or abstinence after a period of AA membership and maintain their abstinence without AA -The unmet need for AA referral is concentrated in the younger age groups, 35% in the 18-29 years group and 30% in the 30-39 years age group - - - - From the moderator Important data from one of our best American alcoholism researchers. Note especially: 64% of those who continue in A.A. continue to stay sober. Of those who attend A.A. for a while and get sober there, but then stop attending meetings. only 37% remain sober. A.A. is not the only way to get sober and stay sober, but only 16% of those who never attended A.A. get sober and stay sober (these people presumbably do that by going to church instead, by act of sheer will power, or whatever). So what is the best way of getting sober, if you are an alcoholic? Going to A.A. meetings. What is the best way to maximize your chances of staying sober, if you got sober in A.A.? Continuing to go to A.A. meetings. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5645. . . . . . . . . . . . DR Silkworth From: katiebartlett79 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/21/2009 11:34:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi everyone, Katie from Big Book Study: The Way Out Can anyone tell me why Dr. Silkworth become intrested in the alcohol field? Many thanks. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5646. . . . . . . . . . . . A.A.''s BB Celebrates 70 Years From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/22/2009 8:18:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A.A.'s 'Big Book' celebrates 70 years Printed in 58 languages, volume has been credited with saving lives of millions of people worldwide By Jim Carney (Akron Beacon Journal staff writer) Jim Carney can be reached at 330-996-3576 or jcarney@thebeaconjournal.com. Find this article at: http://www.ohio.com/news/43240782.html Published on Sunday, Apr 19, 2009 Gail L.'s hands rest on the old red book on a table in front of her. The book, she tells you, saved her life and gave her "a life worth saving." It is "God's story of his love for the alcoholic," she says. Seven decades ago this month, Alcoholics Anonymous, also called the Big Book, was published. For 70 years it has helped millions of people worldwide support each other while protecting their identity — thus the avoidance of last names. Sometime this year, it is expected that the 30 millionth copy will be sold. And as Gail, archivist at the Akron Alcoholics Anonymous office, sits over a first edition of the book known and cherished by recovering people since its publication in April 1939, she talks of the power of its words. "It is a design for living that really works," said Gail, 60, sober for 31 years and archivist in Akron since 1983. Alcoholics Anonymous was founded in Akron on June 10, 1935. Next year will be the organization's 75th anniversary. Every year in June, Akron hosts Founders Day and more than 12,000 people from around the world converge to remember the founding of the A.A. movement. Founders Day events this year are June 12-14. While A.A. does not keep formal membership lists, the group estimates there are nearly 2 million members worldwide who gather in nearly 115,000 groups, including about 1.2 million members in the United States who meet in nearly 54,000 groups. The first-edition book, one of 4,800 first printings, is kept in a safe at A.A.'s office at 775 N. Main St. The rare copy was signed June 10, 1948, by A.A. co-founders Dr. Robert Smith of Akron and New York stockbroker Bill Wilson. An Akron member donated the book. Also kept in the safe is Dr. Bob's copy of the manuscript. The book has been printed in 58 languages, according to a spokeswoman at the A.A. General Services offices in New York City. Gail said the book is really a history text. She said Wilson wrote most of the first 164 pages, which are still in the most current edition. Included on those pages are the 12 steps that have become the basis of the A.A. program. Following the first 164 pages are individual stories, three-fifths of them Akron people who told of their ''strength, experience and hope'' and their recovery to sobriety through A.A., she said. Many of the 18 personal stories included in the first edition were written by a sober, former newspaper reporter named Jim, an A.A. publication said. He, along with Smith, sought out stories of local people with good sobriety records. The newspaperman's story was included as well in a chapter titled The News Hawk. The fourth edition, which came out in 2001, includes two stories of Akron people, Gail said. Gift from God The Rev. Samuel Ciccolini, executive director of Interval Brotherhood Home, a drug and alcohol treatment facility in Coventry Township, said the book, studied by those in recovery, is nothing short of a miracle. "To me, the Big Book is an inspiration of God," said Ciccolini, 66, known to many as Father Sam. IBH will celebrate its 40th anniversary in 2010. "You see its enduring, life-saving value and you know it had to be more than two recovering men that were that brilliant that put something together. It had to be in God's hands," he said. Ciccolini said he recalls two alcoholics coming to talk to his class when he was a student at Akron's St. Peter's School in the mid-1950s. The two recovering men each carried a copy of the Big Book, he said. Ciccolini recalls each man holding it up and saying, "This book saved our lives." Later, when he was a theology student, he said he read the book. "What it has done to save lives is immeasurable," Ciccolini said. The foreword to the first edition begins: "'We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book." The book originally sold for $3.50. It goes for $6 now and will increase to $8 on July 1. Akronite Scott D., 61, a member of A.A. for a dozen years, has taken part in a men's Big Book study group since then. He said the group meets once a week and goes over the first 164 pages, including the chapter Dr. Bob's Nightmare that tells Smith's story. "We read the book and discuss it," he said. Scott said a passage that "registers in my head is we have but a daily reprieve based on the maintenance of our spiritual condition." Gail said when she started going to A.A. meetings, she began reading right away. "I fell in love with the book," she said. Gail said that when the book was written, the Akron A.A. community pushed to call it The Way Out and the New York group thought it should be called simply Alcoholics Anonymous. The New York group won that argument. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5647. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Silkworth From: CloydG . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/21/2009 10:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Here is a link that may be helpful: http://aabibliography.com/historyofaa/silkworth/silkworth.htm Clyde, alcoholic ----- Original Message ----- From: katiebartlett79 Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] DR Silkworth Can anyone tell me why Dr. Silkworth become interested in the alcohol field? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5648. . . . . . . . . . . . Are reproduction Grapevines available? From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/23/2009 2:35:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A lady wrote me from my website wanting a June 1940 Grapevine. Does anybody know where to obtain well-done reproductions?? I include her message here: Greetings from another AA in Kentucky .... You came up on Google. I'm looking for a 1949 Grapevine, June if possible, for yet another AA who is turning 60 this June, born in 1949. Please let me know if you have/know of any .... Thanks! Suzanne Warden suzanne.warden at gmail ld pierce aabibliography.com eztone at hotmail IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5649. . . . . . . . . . . . San Quentin: (1) inmate Ricardo and (2) Bill W.''s speech From: jaxena77 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/21/2009 6:54:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello, (1) I am looking for more background info on the San Quentin inmate Ricardo who worked with Warden Duffy to set up the prison group there. Apparently, Ricardo was interviewed by a San Francisco journalist in 1943, and the interview was published in the San Francisco Call-Bullentin. Does anyone have this interview? (2) I am also curious if there is a recording or transcription or description of the content of Bill Wilson's speech at San Quentin in the 40s. Thanks! Jackie IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5650. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Silkworth From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/25/2009 12:21:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Kate, there is a biography of Silkworth you should seek out: Silkworth: The Little Doctor Who Loved Drunks, the Biography of William Duncan Silkworth, M.D. by Dale Mitchel available at Hazelden I was looking but I can't find my copy. I hope I did not lend it out. LD Pierce aabibliography.com --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "CloydG" wrote: > > Here is a link that may be helpful: > > http://aabibliography.com/historyofaa/silkworth/silkworth.htm > > Clyde, alcoholic > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: katiebartlett79 > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] DR Silkworth > > Can anyone tell me why Dr. Silkworth become > interested in the alcohol field? > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5651. . . . . . . . . . . . Photos of the Akron (and Australian) AA oldtimer Jim Scott From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/26/2009 3:14:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: "Gordy" (gordy8 at gmail.com) Hi there, Gordy is my name ( Australian AA groups http://www.aa-oztralia.com/ ) I am wondering if any of you have any pics of Jim Scott, he was an Australian and had a fair bit to do with the editing of the AA Big Book. < From GFC, the moderator: this is the Jim < Scott whose story was in the 1st edit. of < the BB as "Traveler, Editor, Scholar," later < revised and called "The News Hawk," see < http://www.barefootsworld.net/origbbstories.html#jims I am a sponsee of the AA Australia archival officer Ian J. and we have been looking for photos of Jim Scott, we have one grainy pic of him but nothing else. He is a very important link to our fellowship in Australia and any information we can get re Jim would be very gratefully received. I was hoping you folks might have or know of where we could get a good quality pic ... plus any info apart from the general run o' the mill stuff that is around about him. Thanks very much and keep up the good work God Bless Gordy dos 11th of April 1977 ... another grateful recovering alcoholic! AA OZ Unity Recovery website: http://www.aa-oztralia.com/ AA Southern Cross website: http://www.southerncrossaa.blogspot.com/ Australian AOIG website: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aoig/ AA OZ Unity Recovery audio meeting room: http://chat.paltalk.com/g2/group/520563537/ AA Southern Cross meeting room: http://chat.paltalk.com/g2/group/1171665356/ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5652. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Photos of the Akron (and Australian) AA oldtimer Jim Scott From: Jim Hoffman . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/26/2009 10:04:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi there, This is Maria , I just got a picture of Jim Scott from Ray G., former Dr. Bob's Home Archivist. Although this is pretty grainy I'd be happy to send it to see if it is any better than the one you have. It is 8 X 11. Looks to be of the same one that is on: http://www.barefootsworld.net/origbbstories.html#jims Contact me directly at (jhoffma6 at tampabay.rr.com) Maria ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Chesnut To: AAHistoryLovers group From: "Gordy" (gordy8 at gmail.com) Hi there, Gordy is my name ( Australian AA groups http://www.aa-oztralia.com/ ) I am wondering if any of you have any pics of Jim Scott, he was an Australian and had a fair bit to do with the editing of the AA Big Book. < From GFC, the moderator: this is the Jim < Scott whose story was in the 1st edit. of < the BB as "Traveler, Editor, Scholar," later < revised and called "The News Hawk," see < http://www.barefootsworld.net/origbbstories.html#jims I am a sponsee of the AA Australia archival officer Ian J. and we have been looking for photos of Jim Scott, we have one grainy pic of him but nothing else. He is a very important link to our fellowship in Australia and any information we can get re Jim would be very gratefully received. I was hoping you folks might have or know of where we could get a good quality pic ... plus any info apart from the general run o' the mill stuff that is around about him. Thanks very much and keep up the good work God Bless Gordy IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5653. . . . . . . . . . . . Whoopee parties From: tsirish1 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/26/2009 4:08:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Does anyone KNOW the context in which Bill was referring to "plain ordinary whoopee parties"? I don't want guesses or theories; I already have them. I was looking for documented historical fact. Thanks in advance. Keep the Faith! BB Tim - - - - From the moderator: One of the most famous Walt Disney cartoon shorts of the 1930's was called "The Whoopee Party." A picture is worth a thousand words, go to YouTube and watch the cartoon: Mickey Cartoons — The Whoopee Party (Sept. 17, 1932) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d7zxYsl67I Also look up whoopee party on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Whoopee_Party GFC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5654. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Are reproduction Grapevines available? 1949 not 1940 From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/25/2009 12:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII She needs June 1949 not 1940. Sorry my typo. LD Pierce - - - - Also from: "Keith" (kroloson at mindspring.com) The lady needs a JUNE 1949 year, Suzanne had a typo. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5655. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Are reproduction Grapevines available? From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/24/2009 6:02:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The A.A. Grapevine did not start publishing until June 1944 so it is unlikely that anyone can come up with one from 1940. I believe the memorial issues on the deaths of Dr. Bob and Bill W were reprinted and are still available at private sale. The originals are scarce and command a fairly high price. I am not aware of any other reproduced issues. The complete digital archive of Grapevines going back to June 1944 is available online: I find it very handy. Tommy H in Baton Rouge - - - - At 13:35 4/23/2009, diazeztone wrote: >A lady wrote me from my website wanting a June 1940 Grapevine. > >Does anybody know where to obtain well-done reproductions?? > >I include her message here: > >Greetings from another AA in Kentucky .... You came up on >Google. I'm looking for a 1949 Grapevine, June if possible, for yet >another AA who is turning 60 this June, born in 1949. Please let me >know if you have/know of any .... Thanks! > >Suzanne Warden >suzanne.warden at gmail > >ld pierce >aabibliography.com >eztone at hotmail IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5656. . . . . . . . . . . . Father Ralph Pfau From: nuevenueve@ymail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/27/2009 2:17:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi, good day and 24 happy sobriety hours to all AA members, good day to non-AA members: Dears, I´ve been searching what were the causes Fr. Pfau´s literature was not approved or included by the conference. Were there religion causes? Did Father Pfau relapse and that´s why? Please show me light. Thank you pals. Hugo IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5657. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Are reproduction Grapevines available? From: James Blair . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/27/2009 2:23:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: Tom wrote > I am not aware of any other reproduced issues. The GV sells reproductions of the June 1944 issue. They can be purchased on their web site. Jim IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5658. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Father Ralph Pfau From: bsdds@comcast.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/27/2009 4:05:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII This is the sticky wicket (IMO) of "approved literature." It has nothing to do with content but where it is published and how distributed. Just like a great amt of literature isn't "approved" out of Hazelden . Yet there is the Little Red Book and 24 Hours a Day book. They are not approved. So widely used was the Little Red Book, that Dr. Bob used it to explain the the steps (before the 12/12) along with the Detroit Papers. There is a great source on the Hindsfoot under the site on the four original authors in AA, Bill being just one. A.A. Historical Materials Part 1 http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html - - - - "Approved Literature" is the source of revenue for AA and they go to great lengths to explain that other literature is not "outlawed." There are some areas tho, that use the term "approved literature" like any thing else is written by the evil sister of Cinderella. respectfully submitted bob s ----- Original Message ----- From: nuevenueve @ ymail .com To: AAHistoryLovers @ yahoogroups .com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 2:17:28 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [ AAHistoryLovers ] Father Ralph Pfau Hi, good day and 24 happy sobriety hours to all AA members, good day to non-AA members: Dears, I´ ve been searching what were the causes Fr. Pfau ´s literature was not approved or included by the conference. Were there religion causes? Did Father Pfau relapse and that´s why? Please show me light. Thank you pals. Hugo IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5659. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Father Ralph Pfau From: Joseph Nugent . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/27/2009 6:02:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII AA Conference approves only what it prints. They say the 3 most prolific writers were Richmond Walker (24 hours a day) Fr. Ralph Pfau (John Doe Golden Books) and Bill Wilson. Fr. Ralph didn't have a slip/relapse. Others may give you more/better information, Joe - - - - From: Tom White (tomwhite at cableone.net) Dear Hugo: I am moved to write at once before my own notions are contradicted by others who may write. It is my impression that Fr. Pfau's work has simply joined the other (and hugely more voluminous) writings that were so important in AA's earlier years, in coming under the AA Conference rubric: "not Conference-approved literature." I could cite, inter alia, the Little Red Book (containing much of Dr. Bob's early teachings), the 24-hour prayer book, and, indeed, even the Bible. My understanding is that this does not mean such writings are disapproved or unacceptable in any sense. It simply means, if I may put it this way, that they were not published by AA itself. By which I mean the publishing concern which AA World Services operates. I think AA HQ has tried at least somewhat to stem the trend toward negative branding of everything it does NOT publish, but I am not sure how successful it has been. Very best to you. Tom W, Odessa, Texas IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5660. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Father Ralph Pfau From: allan_gengler . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/27/2009 5:10:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII There's no such thing as an "approved" aa reading list, though it is often misrepresented by members of AA. There are two AA publishing companies, one being the grapevine. For AA proper all literature and pamphlets must go through the appropriate committee, submitted to the general conference and get approval. The Big Book can't be changed without at least a 2/3 vote. GSO says---- "Conference-approved" — What It Means to You The term has no relation to material not published by G.S.O. It does not imply Conference disapproval of other material about A.A. A great deal of literature helpful to alcoholics is published by others, and A.A. does not try to tell any individual member what he or she may or may not read. BUT From the AA Guidelines from the Literature Committee: The spirit of the 1977 Conference action regarding group litera- ture displays be reaffirmed, and recommended the suggestion that A.A. groups be encouraged to display or sell only literature published and distributed by the General Service Office, the A.A. Grapevine and other A.A. entities. - - - - OTHER RELEVANT MATERIAL: AAHistoryLovers Message #4798 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/4798 History of the term Conference Approved The 1952 Conference Literature Committee reaffirmed the stand taken by the 1951 Conference as follows: "This conference has no desire to review, edit, or censor non-Foundation material. Our object is to provide, in the future, a means of distinguishing Foundation literature from that issued locally or by non-AA interests." - - - - Service Material From G.S.O. "Conference-approved -- What It Means" "The term 'Conference-approved' describes written or audiovisual material approved by the Conference for publication by G.S.O. This process assures that everything in such literature is in accord with A.A. principles. Conference-approved material always deals with the recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous or with information about the A.A. Fellowship." "The term has no relation to material not published by G.S.O. It does not imply Conference disapproval of other material about A.A. A great deal of literature helpful to alcoholics is published by others, and A.A. does not try to tell any individual member what he or she may or may not read." There are things which are "A.A. Literature" even which are not conference-approved, such as pamphlets and booklets printed under the sponsorship of a local AA group or intergroup: "Central offices and intergroups do write and distribute pamphlets or booklets that are not Conference-approved. If such pieces meet the needs of the local membership, they may be legitimately classified as 'A.A. literature.' There is no conflict between A.A. World Services, Inc. (A.A.W.S. -- publishers of Conference-approved literature), and central offices or intergroups -- rather they complement each other. The Conference does not disapprove of such material." - - - - It was suggested by a conference advisory at one point (1972), that when a group or intergroup or AA conference puts literature out for sale, that they put the conference approved material in one location, and the non conference approved material on another table or bookshelf or part of the table. But that was just a recommendation, where AA groups are autonomous and can set their own guidelines however they wish. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5661. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Book signed by Dr Bob and Bill W From: schaberg43 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/28/2009 1:07:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I own a first edition, first printing (1939) of the Big Book that was signed by both Bill and Bob (and also, Jim Burwell). Although there is no date on Bob's inscription (signed "Dr. Bob Smith"), I was told that this comment and signature were done by Dr. Bob after the 1950 Cleveland Convention and just six weeks before Bob died on November 16, 1950. Bill's inscription is also signed in full ("Bill Wilson") and is dated - in Bill's typical fashion - 5/24/51 in Oklahoma City. (There is no date or place noted by Jim in his inscription.) Also in my collection is an 11th printing of the first edition (1947) with signatures by Bill Wilson (full name), Lois Wilson (ditto) and "Ann & Dr. Bob Smith." Bill has also signed the half-title page that follows "Bill Wilson." The brief inscription and the four (three?) signatures seem to be done in a very 'sloppy' and hurried manner - unlike most other signatures that I have seen, but they are genuine nonetheless. It's just that these particular signatures have something of an "on the run" feel to them. For the record, Bill signed literally thousands of books over the years. Bob was not only around much less time than Bill, he was also more of a 'homebody' compared to Bill and a much humbler, gentler soul than Bill. Inscribed copies by Dr. Bob are therefore considerably scarcer and what could easily be called "rare" compared to those left by Bill. Finally, it is clear that there was not strict need for Bill and Bob to be in the same place at the same time to end up with side-by-side inscriptions in a book. AA's were (and are) notoriously persistent when they want to accomplish something and - as is the case with my dual-inscribed 1st, 1st - not hindered by time and distance. I'm sure that is not the only instance where someone had a copy signed by just one of the co-founders and traveled to see the other one for the expressed purpose of obtaining their signature. Over and above that, Bill and Bob frequently visited each other in either New York or Ohio throughout the early years of AA - although I do not know of anyone who has taken the time and trouble to document these face-to-face meetings. (Now... there's a nice project for someone!) Best, Old Bill --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, kentedavis@... wrote: > > I have heard of a 12th printing of the first > edition that was signed by both Dr Bob (his > whole name) and Bill Wilson (his whole name). > I was wondering if it was a one of a kind. > There were not that many times that Bill and > Bob were together with a book to sign, > especially signing their whole names. > > Could this have been signed at the 1950 > International Convention in 1950? This book > was also signed by Lois and Father Pfau. > > Were there other times that Bill and Bob were > together that they might have signed a book? > Does anyone know of other occasions that when > Bill and Bob were together after the book was > published in 1939, other than the International > Convention in 1950? > > Has anyone seen other books that were signed > by both Bill and Bob? > > Kent D. 8/8/88 > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5662. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Father Ralph Pfau From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/28/2009 5:21:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dear Hugo, To answer the actual questions you asked. Father Pfau never had any relapses. He died sober with 23 years of sobriety in 1967. Although he was Roman Catholic, his message spoke to all AA's. At least 60% of the AA's who came to his spiritual retreats were Protestants. There is nothing contrary to good AA teaching in the Golden Books. In fact they are one of the best things you could read if you wanted to know more about how to live good AA spirituality in your everyday life. It is good oldtime AA at its best. So why aren't Father Ralph Pfau's Golden Books "conference approved"? The reason is, simply, that the only books that are "conference approved" are books where the New York AA office pays for printing them and then gets the royalties from their sales. Richmond Walker offered Twenty Four Hours a Day (the second best selling AA book of all time) to the New York AA people back in the 1950's and they turned him down. Ed Webster offered The Little Red Book to them, and they turned him down too. The only books the New York AA office were publishing back then were books written by Bill W. All the other books written by other AA authors had to be self-published back in those days. The New York AA office would not lift a finger to help them get their books published. Richmond Walker originally printed his books at the county courthouse and distributed them himself from his home. Ed Webster and his friend Barry Collins called themselves the "Coll-Webb" publishing company, and printed and distributed the Little Red Books themselves. Father Ralph (and one of his nieces and the three nuns who assisted him at the Convent of the Good Shepherd) likewise printed and distributed the Golden Books themselves (they called themselves "the Society of Matt Talbot Guild"). Back in those very early days, unless you were Bill W., the only way an AA author could get an AA book published was to self-publish. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) - - - - Message #5656 from (nuevenueve at ymail.com) Hi, good day and 24 happy sobriety hours to all AA members, good day to non-AA members: Dears, I've been searching what were the causes Fr. Pfau's literature was not approved or included by the conference. Were there religion causes? Did Father Pfau relapse and that's why? Please show me light. Thank you pals. Hugo IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5663. . . . . . . . . . . . First conference published books NOT by Bill W. From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/3/2009 11:04:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A message to me from Tom Hickcox raised the question, what were the first conference published books which were NOT written by Bill W? Bill Wilson died on 24 January 1971. I cannot think of any full length books which were printed by AAWS prior to Bill W's death, which were written by anyone other than him. But I may be leaving something obvious out, by oversight. My preliminary list of non-Bill W. books would include: **Came to Believe (New York: AAWS, 1973). **Living Sober (New York: AAWS, 1975, 1998). **Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers (New York: AAWS, 1980). **Pass It On: The Story of Bill Wilson (New York: AAWS, 1984). **Daily Reflections (New York: AAWS, 1990). I also include some of our past messages about the first two books on that list: ******************** Came to Believe (New York: AAWS, 1973). ******************** Message #2884: Excerpt from unpublished manuscript on AA History by Bob P., 1985. "Came to Believe," published in 1973, is a collection of stories by A.A. members who tell in their own words what the phrase "spiritual awakening" means to them. Five years previously, an A.A. member had pointed out the need, because many newcomers translate the word "spiritual" in A.A. as meaning "religious." The aim was to show the diversity of convictions implied in "God as we understood Him,".. With which Bill was in delighted agreement. Except for six pieces from the Grapevine the remainder of the contributions were written especially for the book in response to an appeal by G.S.O. and represent the broadest possible sampling of members from all parts of the U.S. and Canada and around the world. The first cover of "Came to Believe" was a photograph of a tender shoot in spring, peeping up through the snow..beautifully symbolic, but perhaps too subtle for the browser at the literature table. It was replaced by a simple dark blue title on an all white background, still low-key and unobtrusive. After 1985, it was given a bright red cover with gold stamping. ******************** Living Sober (New York: AAWS, 1975, 1998). ******************** Message #5162 Barry L.'s claim for royalties for Living Sober I have copies of some correspondence between Barry L. and the General Service Board that were in Dr. Bob's collection at Brown University. There is a letter from Barry to George Dorsey on March 7, 1982 (Cc: Robert Pearson). There is a reply to Barry from John Bragg on May 25, 1982 (Cc: Robert Pearson). Finally, there is a letter from Barry to Gordon Patrick, dated February 14, 1983. - - - - The first letter outline Barry's claim to royalties from the sale of Living Sober. The second letter basically says "you negotiated a deal for $4,000 in 1974 and you're not getting any more." The last letter concludes with Barry stating that he is left with no choice but to file a claim for $153,304.45 in retroactive royalties. Chris - - - - From: Mel B. Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Barry L. and Bill W's copy of the Big Book manuscript Hi Rick, I was pleased to read this additional information about Barry L., the manuscript, etc. If his heirs made a bundle out of the manuscript, it is probably poetic justice. I think Barry did feel he deserved more pay for what services he had rendered to AA World Services and Lois supported him in this effort. It failed, however, and Barry died without getting any additional bucks (at least to my knowledge). He was virtually a son to Lois and accompanied her or her trips. I took a photo of her greeting Jack Bailey in Akron in 1978, with Barry standing behind her. This is the only photo I have of Barry, and I wish another was available. Mel - - - - Message #3155 Hi All, I interviewed Barry L. by telephone and obtained the story about the homosexual black man who had contacted Barry about coming into AA. This is how it became included in "Pass It On." I think this happened in 1945. I don't recall any mention of how the man fared after being introduced to the fellowship. I had met Barry at G.S.O. in New York and considered him a good friend. We never discussed his being gay, but I do recall expressing condolences when his partner died. I also attended Marty Mann's memorial services at St. Bartholomew's Episcopal Church in New York City with Barry and a lesbian member who knew Marty. The service was conducted by the minister of the church and Yvelin G., who was an ordained Episcopal minister along with being Marty's close associate for many years at the National Council on Alcoholism. This service was about two months after Marty's passing. I had interviewed Marty earlier that year at her home in Easton, CT, where she also introduced me to her longtime partner, Priscilla Peck. Priscilla was then suffering from Alzheimer's but Marty was still taking care of her, and I had the feeling that they were a very devoted couple. I learned more about their relationship in the Browns' book and was also happy to hear that Priscilla was well taken care of after Marty died. It appeared to me that Lois W.'s best friends in the fellowship were Barry and Nell Wing (though Nell wasn't an alcoholic). Barry accompanied Lois on out-of-town speaking engagements and was otherwise very attentive to her. I believed that Barry was probably in her will, as was Nell, but he predeceased Lois. I was also familiar with Barry's efforts to obtain extra compensation for his work on "Living Sober." Lois reportedly endorsed this effort. I didn't feel he had any grounds for receiving additional pay, as he had taken on the project on a work-for-hire basis with no royalties specified. He used Bill W.'s royalties as a precedent, but I'm sure Bill negotiated the royalty agreement up front when he wrote "The Twelve and Twelve" plus "AA Comes of Age." His Big Book royalties were agreed upon earlier. I think Barry died before this matter was finally settled. Mel Barger - - - - Message #4756 Hi everyone, Audrey Borden here with a response to LD Pierce's post. Everything I learned about Barry Leach is recorded in the book "The History of Gay People in Alcoholics Anonymous: From the Beginning." A transcript of his wonderful talk at the 1985 Twin Cities Roundup, "The Gay Origins of AA's Third Tradition," appears in Chapter 2. Other topics include a comparison of treatments for alcoholism and homosexuality, the debate in AA over meetings for gay alcoholics, the development of gay meetings, interviews with pioneering lesbian and gay addiction pro- fessionals, the history of AA's pamphlet AA and the Gay/Lesbian Alcoholic, the story of Alcoholics Together (a parallel AA organization for gay alcoholics in southern California from 1968-1982), and many stories of recovery and wisdom from gay (and straight) AA's with long-term sobriety. Best, Audrey IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5664. . . . . . . . . . . . SV: Re: Father Ralph Pfau From: Bent Christensen . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/29/2009 3:04:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dear Glenn, dear group Is there any facts or indications, why the New York AA office turned down the offer from both Ed Webster and Richmond Walker? Best regards Bent Christensen Valmuevej 17 6000 Kolding Tlf. 23 84 54 26 www.pass-it-on.dk http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/StoreBog_studie/ Fra: Glenn Chesnut Emne: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Father Ralph Pfau Til: "AAHistoryLovers group" Dato: tirsdag 28. april 2009 23.21 Richmond Walker offered Twenty Four Hours a Day (the second best selling AA book of all time) to the New York AA people back in the 1950's and they turned him down. Ed Webster offered The Little Red Book to them, and they turned him down too. The only books the New York AA office were publishing back then were books written by Bill W. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5665. . . . . . . . . . . . Publishing the 24 Hour book From: Bruce C. . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/4/2009 12:20:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Why the 24 Hour book was not published by A.A. Hi All We have heard various reasons why A.A. never published the 24 Hour a Day Book, that is currently published by Hazelden but, here is the real story. This is from the Final Report: Fourth General Service Conference of A.A. 1954, page 20: "The Conference was asked to consider the offer of the publisher who wished to give to A.A. Publishing, Inc. publication rights to the booklet, 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day.' A two-page letter from the publisher, favoring this proposal and answering certain objections to the proposal, was read to the Conference. The letter noted that current net profit from sales of the booklet is about $5,300 annually.** Requests that A.A. Publishing, Inc. undertake publication of the booklet have been received from many areas, largely as a result of suggestions by the present publisher, it was reported. Comment by the Delegates indicated they felt it unwise to set a precedent in the case of this booklet and expressed fear that A.A. Publishing 'would be flooded with similar requests' if it did so. The Delegate from the State in which the booklet is published said it was the consensus of his group and of his area that the proposal not be approved. Following full discussion of the proposal, the Conference adopted a resolution that publication rights to 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day' not be accepted and further asked that the publisher be thanked for his offer." Bruce C. - - - - **FROM THE MODERATOR: Richmond Walker's papers, which are in one of the Florida AA archives, show that Rich took this profit every year and gave it to the Daytona Beach AA group, which in turn sent the entire sum to the New York office. As long as Rich and the Daytona Beach AA group were publishing the 24 Hour book (1948 to 1954), they never kept a penny of the profits from its sale for themselves. GFC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5666. . . . . . . . . . . . Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/4/2009 3:25:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Bent Christensen has asked, "Is there any facts or indications, why the New York AA office turned down the offer from both Ed Webster and Richmond Walker," to let the New York office take over publishing their books? - - - - (1) We remember how Bill W. had encountered such enormous difficulties in obtaining the money to publish the Big Book in 1939. In 1952 to 53, he met even more difficulties in obtaining the money to publish the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions. Finally, in desperation, he entered into a deal with Harper and Brothers, a commercial publisher, where two editions would be published, one for AA members, and the other a commercial version (for fifty cents more per copy). By later standards, this would probably have been regarded as a breach of the Traditions, but it was the only way Bill could figure out to raise the money to print his new book. See Pass It On, pages 355-6. On the other hand, the authors of the Twenty Four Hour book and the Little Red Book (together with the AA groups which had sponsored those two books, the Daytona Beach group in Florida and the Nicollet Group in Minneapolis), had apparently effortlessly been able to raise the money to publish those two books and keep them in print. The New York office only had the money to publish and promote ONE BOOK at that time. Should the manuscript to Bill W's Twelve and Twelve be tossed back in a file cabinet, and never receive publication, so the New York office could take over publishing Twenty Four Hours a Day, or the Little Red Book? There was a period, according to Ernest Kurtz, when more AA members had their own copy of the Twenty Four hour book than there were who had a copy of the Big Book. In my part of Indiana, it was the little black book that all the AA people carried around with them all day long, not the Big Book. And the Little Red Book was a direct competitor to the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, and was not only selling extremely well, but was far easier for beginners to read and understand. So both these books were already doing better than anything Bill W. had ever written. They most certainly did NOT need New York's help. Does anybody seriously think that the manuscript of the Twelve and Twelve should have been tossed in a file cabinet and not published, just to take over publishing some other book that was already doing well? (2) When Richmond Walker asked the New York office to take over publishing Twenty Four Hours a Day in 1953, the response was an almost immediate "no." See http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla3.html Not only did they not have the money in New York to take over printing it, they did not yet, at that point in 1953, know for sure that the just-published 12 and 12 was going to be successful. When Ed Webster and Barry Collins offered New York the Little Red Book, New York's response, naturally enough, was identical. New York was putting all of its money into first the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions (in 1953), next the second edition of the Big Book (in 1955), and finally Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age (in 1957). (3) And Bent, there here arose an even more important question: Why SHOULD the New York AA office be turned into a huge publishing house, with all the financial concerns and monetary investment which that would entail? The response by the Delegates to Richmond Walker made it clear that they most certainly did NOT see that as the proper role of the New York AA office: "Comment by the Delegates indicated they felt it unwise to set a precedent in the case of this booklet and expressed fear that A.A. Publishing 'would be flooded with similar requests' if it did so." IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5667. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Is the silkworth.net site down? From: Jim M . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/5/2009 1:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Good day my AAHistoryLover friends! The problem is the doctors wrote me out of work for a year on two separate occasions. I was unable to continue working after July 24th 2007 and am using Bender And Bender to obtain Social Security. So, although the activation fee to get the http://silkworth.net/ site back online is quite small, I nevertheless do not have it at this point. It is frustrating to say the least. I do hope I am able to get it back online soon. Just haven't figured out how yet. Hope you are all doing well! Yours in service, Ever grateful, Jim M. silkworthdotnet@yahoo.com (silkworthdotnet at yahoo.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5668. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book From: momaria33772 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/4/2009 5:51:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi All, Thanks to Bruce for his reply which brings up a related issue that I would like to address. The original question and some of the responses referred to the book being refused by the "New York AA Office". There may be some who do not understand that the decision was really made by the representatives of all the groups in the US and Canada. The "New York AA Office" followed the decision made by these representa- tives (Delegates). There seems to be a feeling by some that GSO runs things, often in opposition to the groups and members. I think it is our responsibility to make it clear that we are the them that makes these decisions. * * * * I'd like to share one other thought I have had every time anyone has brought up publishing of any materials like these. Would the people who love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to have it changed at some future Delegate Conference based on some objection that someone in my home group had and got submitted to the Conference Agenda? For those who don't believe that could happen, I would point out that both the fourth edition versions of the Foreward and Dr. Bob's Nightmare have been changed based on submissions by members and groups in the US and Canada. I could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour Book being radically different from the one originally published. Jim H. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5669. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book From: Archives Historie . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/5/2009 1:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From the Daytona Florida Archives, The moderator GFC is absolutely right on and correct. Not a penny was kept here in Daytona and was all past on to GSO. We have the papers to prove this fact also. So when you visit Daytona please come in and visit the archives display in our Intergroup office where you mary see these papers and much much more. Thank you. David in Daytona - - - - Subject: Publishing the 24 Hour book To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:20 AM FROM THE MODERATOR: Richmond Walker's papers, which are in one of the Florida AA archives, show that Rich took this profit every year and gave it to the Daytona Beach AA group, which in turn sent the entire sum to the New York office. As long as Rich and the Daytona Beach AA group were publishing the 24 Hour book (1948 to 1954), they never kept a penny of the profits from its sale for themselves. GFC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5670. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book From: Charlie Parker . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 1:38:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare and which foreword was changed?? Charlie Parker Ace Golf Netting 828 Wagon Trail Austin, TX 78758 Toll free 877-223-6387 -----Original Message----- From: momaria33772 Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:51 PM I'd like to share one other thought I have had every time anyone has brought up publishing of any materials like these. Would the people who love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to have it changed at some future Delegate Conference based on some objection that someone in my home group had and got submitted to the Conference Agenda? For those who don't believe that could happen, I would point out that both the fourth edition versions of the Foreword and Dr. Bob's Nightmare have been changed based on submissions by members and groups in the US and Canada. I could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour Book being radically different from the one originally published. Jim H. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5671. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: Ben Humphreys . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/5/2009 7:27:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I always heard that the Conference turned it down (the 24 Hour Book) on the grounds it was too religious. Live and learn. Thanks for your explanation. We all used it when I came in and I still use it everyday. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5673. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 3:39:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Ben Humphreys (message 5671) said "I always heard that the Conference turned it down (the 24 Hour Book) on the grounds it was too religious." Yes, I have heard people say that too, but that was not so. In fact, the reason why the 24 Hour Book became so popular in AA so quickly, was because it provided a replacement for a book which some AA members DID regard as "too religious," namely, The Upper Room. From 1935 until the publication of the 24 Hour Book in 1948, the main meditational book used by AA people was this Southern Methodist publication called The Upper Room. And as noted, the reason why AA people all over the US and Canada began using the 24 Hour Book right away, was because they wanted a meditational book that was not filled with so much Christian religious phraseology. To them, the 24 Hour Book seemed perfect as a substitute for The Upper Room precisely because IT WASN'T VERY RELIGIOUS in the traditional Christian sense. No references in the 24 Hour Book to Jesus or requirement of belief in Christ, and hardly any scripture quotations. Richmond Walker, the AA member who wrote the 24 Hour Book, was sensitive to these issues. His father, Joseph Walker, had been one of the leading atheists in the United States (he wrote a book defending atheism, and was one of the signers of the original Humanist Manifesto). Rich himself, his son told me, attended the Unitarian Church: http://www.uua.org/aboutus/index.shtml "Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion with Jewish-Christian roots. It has no creed. It affirms the worth of human beings, advocates freedom of belief and the search for advancing truth, and tries to provide a warm, open, supportive community for people who believe that ethical living is the supreme witness of religion." THE UPPER ROOM http://hindsfoot.org/uprm1.html "From 1935 to 1948, most A.A. members read The Upper Room every morning for their morning meditation. Although the Oxford Group had the greatest influence on the development of early A.A., this little paperback booklet may well have been the second greatest influence on early A.A. spirituality. This article gives selections from the readings in some of the issues of The Upper Room published in 1938 and 1939, along with commentary explaining some of the ideas which A.A. drew from this source: the understanding of character and character defects, happiness as an inside job, the Divine Light within, warnings against being too imprisoned by doctrines, dogmas and church creeds, the dangers of resentment, instructions about how to pray, entering the Divine Silence, learning to listen to God, opening the shutters of my mind to let in the Sunlight of the Spirit, taking life One Day at a Time, and above all, remembering that God is present with me at all times: 'Nearer is he than breathing, closer than hands or feet.'" See the Upper Room website at http://www.upperroom.org/ THE UPPER ROOM AND ROMAN CATHOLIC SPIRITUALITY The Upper Room is not only read and used by people from a number of different Protestant denominations, but many Roman Catholic families over the years have also kept copies of The Upper Room in their homes for their own private devotions. In fact, the Southern Methodists have always had strong links to the Roman Catholic tradition as well as the Anglo-Catholic tradition. So for example, as Fiona Dodd pointed out to me, the Upper Room website currently includes instructions on the spirituality of St. Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556), who was the spiritual master whom both Sister Ignatia and Father Ed Dowling looked to as their great spiritual guide: http://www.upperroom.org/methodx/thelife/prayermethods/ http://www.upperroom.org/methodx/thelife/prayermethods/ignatian.asp http://www.upperroom.org/methodx/thelife/prayermethods/examen.asp But this too is a very religious approach, making heavy use of traditional Christian language and imagery. Richmond Walker's Twenty-Four Hours a Day broke with that almost completely, and devised language and imagery which could be used by anyone who believed in a transcendent Higher Power and the need to practice love, unselfishness, honesty, and purity in our daily lives. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5674. . . . . . . . . . . . Correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Pfau From: nuevenueve@ymail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 2:28:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello Group: I was reading part of Fr. Ralph Pfau's "The Golden book of Sanity" and remember Fr. Pfau wrote something approximately like this: >It is one of the AA glories that the individual makes his election in subjects of AA without waiting for the interference or criticizing from the part of his companions< referring to a letter to him from Bill W. The question is, is there a website/book/other in which one could find all the correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Ralph Pfau? Thanks as always. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5675. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Pfau From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 4:08:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In Message 5674, asked where we could find the correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Ralph Pfau. I am glad you asked this question. When Amy Filiatreau was the New York AA Archivist, she very kindly located several of Bill W.'s letters referring to Ralph Pfau, letters referring to one particular question I had asked her about. Bill was unhappy with both Fr. Ralph and Lillian Roth because they had broken their anonymity in print (Fr. Ralph in his autobiography which he published in Look magazine in 1958 and Lillian Roth in her autobiography, I'll Cry Tomorrow, which came out in 1954. But I got the impression from Amy that there were a whole lot more letters in which Bill W. was either writing to Fr. Ralph or mentioning his name in a letter to someone else. Unfortunately, I have so far been unable to find out whether anyone kept Fr. Ralph's papers after his death. One of his nieces, who took care of a lot of things after his death, told me that she did not know where they had gone, or even if anyone had kept them at all. The Convent of the Good Shepherd in Indianapolis, where he was the Confessor, is no longer in existence, I have been told. If his papers still exist any place, it is possible that there might be copies of letters from him to Bill W. there. If anybody knows where Fr. Ralph's papers are now, or if anybody would like to go through the AA Archives in New York looking for references to Fr. Ralph in Bill W.'s correspondence, it would certainly be useful to AA historians. REFERENCES: See Father Ralph S. Pfau and Al Hirshberg, "A Priest's Own Story," Look, Vol. 22, No. 5 (March 4, 1958): 84-97; and "Out of the Shadows," Look, Vol. 22, No. 6 (March 18, 1958): 85-98. Lillian Roth, I'll Cry Tomorrow (New York: Frederick Fell, 1954). Lillian first joined A.A. in 1946. New York A.A. Archives: see especially letters from Bill to Dean B. (Indianapolis) on February 11, 1958; and Bill to George S. (Philadelphia) on June 2, 1958. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5676. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/7/2009 9:10:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The statement below, regarding assumed difficulties in obtaining money in 1952 and 1953 to print the 12&12, is not consistent with its source reference to "Pass It On (pages 355-6):" ============================================== "(1) We remember how Bill W. had encountered such enormous difficulties in obtaining the money to publish the Big Book in 1939. In 1952 to 53, he met even more difficulties in obtaining the money to publish the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions. Finally, in desperation, he entered into a deal with Harper and Brothers, a commercial publisher, where two editions would be published, one for AA members, and the other a commercial version (for fifty cents more per copy). By later standards, this would probably have been regarded as a breach of the Traditions, but it was the only way Bill could figure out to raise the money to print his new book. See Pass It On, pages 355-6." ============================================== Reliable source reference show no such notion of difficulties in raising funds for publication of the 12&12 or of any other of Bill's works from the time of the establishment of the General Service Conference in 1951. In fact the record shows very much the opposite. Based on a 1951 Conference advisory action recommending that AA literature should have Conference approval, the Alcoholic Foundation Board formed a special Trustees’ committee on literature to recommend to the 1952 Conference literature items that should be retained and future literature items that would be needed. Bill W also reported to the 1952 Conference on the many literature projects he was engaged in. Bill's projects reported in the 1952 Conference final report were: (1) Up-dating the story section of the "Big Book" to provide a more truly representative cross-section of AA recovery stories; (2) A new series of anecdotal analyses of the Twelve Traditions; (3) A series of orderly, point-by-point essays on the Twelve Steps; (4) "A kind of a popular history of AA and its ideas of recovery, tradition and service"; (5) A book on the application of AA philosophy to the "total problem of living" and (6) A reference manual stating our total experience with the whole idea of service functions. The 1952 Conference unanimously approved the Board proposals and Bill's projects. For Bill, this resulted in publication of:(a) "The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" in 1953; (b) “The Third Legacy Manual” in 1955 and renamed “The AA Service Manual” in 1969; (c) The 2nd edition Big Book in 1955; (d) “AA Comes of Age” in 1957; (e) “The Twelve Concepts for World Service” in 1962; and (f) “The AA way of Life” in 1966 and later renamed to “As Bill Sees It” in 1975. In regards to the 12&12, "Pass It On" (pg 356) states that "The book was an immediate success." The 12&12 sold 29,567 copies in 1953 compared to Big Book sales of 23,296 copies. Both the 12&12 and "AA Comes of Age" were sold commercially through Harper & Brothers with the consent of the General Service Conference (Traditions notwithstanding). In Bob P's "Unofficial History of AA" it states that in 1952 "Bill asked to be released from routine duties in order to concentrate on writing: updating the story section of the Big Book and writing a new series of essays on the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions. The Literature Committee reported ten projects had been completed, and ten more were suggested by the Delegates. Volunteers couldn’t accomplish all this work, so the Conference approved employment of professional writers’ in AA (p 183)." I'd like to know what source documents give the impression of "difficulties in obtaining money." It doesn't seem to be historically accurate/factual. Cheers Arthur - - - - RESPONSE FROM GLENN C. Arthur, I cited Pass It On, pages 355-6. If the New York AA office was rolling in money, then why did they enter that commercial agreement with Harper and Brothers over the two editions of the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions? If they didn't need the money, and didn't HAVE to do it in order to get the Twelve and Twelve published at all, then that commercial profit- making deal doesn't look very cricket to me. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Chesnut Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:25 PM To: AAHistoryLovers group Subject: Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book > In 1952 to 53, he met even more difficulties in > obtaining the money to publish the Twelve Steps > and Twelve Traditions. Finally, in desperation, > he entered into a deal with Harper and Brothers, > a commercial publisher, where two editions would > be published, one for AA members, and the other > a commercial version (for fifty cents more per > copy). By later standards, this would probably > have been regarded as a breach of the Traditions, > but it was the only way Bill could figure out > to raise the money to print his new book. > See Pass It On, pages 355-6. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5677. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/7/2009 9:41:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In Bob P's "Non Approved AA History" manuscript he notes the following (pg 211) regarding the Twenty-Four Hours a Day book,: "The history of AA literature is also told in the history of what was not published. Several Conferences had to deal with the request that the Twenty-Four Hours A Day book be adopted as AA literature, since it was written by an AA member and was in widespread use in AA (It was copyrighted and published by Hazelden and hence was not available. Also, being written in specific religious language, it would be inappropriate.) ..." [Note: Bob P wrote this in the mid-to-late 1980s] The 1953, 1954 and 1972 Conferences faced the question of accepting publication rights on the “Twenty-Four Hours a Day” book written by AA member Richmond W. The 1953 Conference postponed the matter to allow review prior to the 1954 Conference with the recommendation to: "Ask the Delegates to weigh this question for submission to the 1954 Conference: Does the Conference feel it should depart from its purely textbook program by printing non-textbook literature such as the "24 Hour Book of meditation?" The final 1954 Conference report states the following: "The Conference was asked to consider the offer of the publisher who wished to give to AA Publishing, Inc. publication rights to the booklet, 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day.' A two-page letter from the publisher, favoring this proposal and answering certain objections to the proposal, was read to the Conference. The letter noted that current net profit from sales of the booklet is about $5,300 annually. Requests that AA Publishing, Inc. undertake publication of the booklet have been received from many areas, largely as the result of suggestions by the present publisher, it was reported. Comment by the Delegates indicated they felt it unwise to set a precedent in the case of this booklet and expressed fear that AA Publishing 'would be flooded with similar requests' if it did so. The Delegate from the State in which the booklet is published said it was the consensus of his group and of his area that the proposal not be approved. Following full discussion of the proposal, the Conference adopted a resolution that publication rights to 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day' not be accepted and further asked that the publisher be thanked for his offer." The 1972 Conference Literature Committee recommended that: "The 24-Hour Book not be confirmed as Conference-approved literature." Cheers Arthur - - - - RESPONSE FROM GLENN C. Bob P.'s account is confused. At the time of the 1953-54 discussion, the Twenty Four Hour book was NOT being published by Hazelden. It was being published by Richmond Walker himself under the sponsorship of the Daytona Beach AA Group. The reasons given for New York not taking over its publication at that time were (as you note above): (1) "fear that AA Publishing 'would be flooded with similar requests' if it did so." (2) From the wording of the question which the 1953 Conference put to the 1954 Conference, it seems to have been a possible issue (to them) that the Twenty Four Hour book was "non-textbook literature." What would that have meant in 1953? When some folks tried to raise the issue again in 1972 (a year after Bill W.'s death), Bill P. is correct in saying that it was now effectively a dead issue, since Hazelden now owned the copyright, and would not be expected to give it up. Glenn IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5678. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 4:04:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: "trysh travis" (trysh.travis at gmail.com) I'd like to politely disagree about the role religion played in the Conference decision not to approve *24 Hours a Day.* I have seen Richmond Walker's correspondence with the GSO and Literature Committee members on this matter at the Archives in New York, and it is fairly clear there that religiosity was an issue. In a letter to O.K.P. dated 18 Feb. 1954, Walker wrote angrily about the rebuff he'd received from the Conference. Describing the official response to the proposal that "AA Publishing should accept the publication rights to the book *24 Hours a Day,*" Walker claimed that "favoring this proposal, the statement is made: 'The Book is accepted and used by a number of AAs who say they find it helpful.'" In opposing this proposal, two statements are made. One is, 'If a precedent is set, through acceptance of this offer, how would the movement be able to deal with the problem of many other booklets, for which Conference approval would undoubtedly be sought?....' The 2nd Statement is 'Since the booklet is regarded by some as having religious overtones, how could the movement justify its entrance into a field of publishing in which misinterpretation and misunderstanding could arise?'" After noting somewhat snippily that *24 Hours* is a "book," not a "booklet," Walker goes on to respond to what must have been a delegate's or a committee's "statements" at some length: "This book carefully refrains from any mention of religion, and it has no more 'religious overtones' than the Big Book. It is largely spiritual and inspirational, but so is the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous.' ... There is no mention of religion in the whole book, for instance, the word 'Christ' or 'Jesus' is never mentioned, nor is it ever advised that we go to church. Where then, is the 'religion'? ... we have a spiritual program" why try to deny it? ... I do not think that either of these statements opposing the proposal have been fairly stated, nor do I think that they have any basis in fact." (RW to OKP, Box 73, Folder C.) We lack a "smoking gun" where someone explicitly states "AAWSO does not want to take over publication of the book because it is too religious," but the content of this letter makes it pretty clear, I think, that Walker got that message. Further, in a response to an "Ask-It Basket" question at the 1968 Conference, "Why can't we have a 24-Hour book printed by G.S.O.?" the statement was made that "The 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day' book was offered to A.A.W.S. some years ago. The Conference then felt it was too spiritually or religiously oriented. A.A.W.S. would be reluctant to put out a similar book. since it has no wish to compete with this book. "The A.A. Way of Life' seems to serve the same need." (Conference Report 1968, p. 27). I think it is important to note this evidence of uneasiness with Walker's religiosity. The logistical and procedural reasons the Conference had for declining the book were real, but so was a skittishness about the book's palpable Christian overtones. I say they are "palpable" because while Walker is correct that Christ, Jesus, and church are never mentioned in *24 Hours,* it routinely alludes to and quotes from the Christian Bible. (I'm just skimming through my copy at random here .... Quote from St. Paul, 26 April; references to parable of the Prodigal Son, 12-13 March; quote from Mark 13:13, "he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved," 19 Feb, etc.) Walker is clearly drawing on many other spiritual sources-- including, as Glenn has pointed out elsewhere, the "New Thought" beliefs he probably developed in the Emmanuel Movement in Boston. Even if it doesn't dominate the book, however, there is a clear pattern of Christian imagery and language present, enough that Walker's claim that "there is no mention of religion" seems a bit naive, and also enough, I think, so that reasonable people might find the book too "religious." I discuss why the Conference might've been particularly concerned about this issue in the mid-1950s in my forthcoming book (which, as some of you know, I have been working on for MANY 24 hours!). We're still a few months away from the publication date, but you can get a preview of the finished product here: http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=1647. Trysh T. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5679. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: rick tompkins . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 8:44:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Thank you, Glenn, for the reports on the early AA use of the Upper Room periodical from the United Methodist Church and the phenomenal demand for the Twenty-Four Hours A Day book. "The Upper Room" was always available, for free or with a small-sum mailed subscription, in the Narthex (the 'lobby') of my home Methodist Church and I'm sure it's made available there today. It can still inspire me, but not in the manner that Twenty-Four Hours A Day led me in my early sobriety. AAWS' Daily Reflections wasn't available until 1990 and the "24 Hours Book" was the second reading at all of the Groups I attended, and its use remains widespread here in Illinois. It's an available book printed nearby in Minnesota and I wonder if that's one reason for its prevalence in the Midwest.there are still Steering Committee discussions on which daily book to read at Group meetings and I'm sure that when AAWS assembles the second Daily Reflections (as currently proposed) there'll be a new round of more discussions. The content of the 24 Hours book's format can still find its way into an AA meeting, "can we hear the AA Thought For the Day?" and all three sections are normally read. And, it reminds the group of the actual calendar date, to boot, LOL. Apart from the "thought," the "meditation," and the ending 'question' the "Meditation For the Day" comes directly from the Oxford Group movement's use of God Calling by Two Listeners (A.H. Russell, Editor). Richmond W. either excerpted verbatim or rewrote many of the same daily messages from God Calling, bringing it home to AA recovery and spiritual growth. I wonder if he was ever approached by Oxford Groupers (or Moral Re-Armament members) on his use of the older "Two Listeners" work. Was he accused of being "not maximum" or worse? Perhaps by the time Richmond finished his draft in the early 1950s, God Calling was an historically obscure item. The "Two Listeners" daily meditations are still in print by a few publishers and I was fortunate to find a used copy years ago. In the 24 Hours book, some of the Meditations follow directly from the Thought and others seem completely disjointed from the lead Thought, but the textual 'dance with the power of God' reinforced my dwindled Faith early on. I like to think that Richmond's work was assembled and written as a recovered AA's resource to find and rediscover faith in the Trinity of an almighty God. I chose my most effective concept of a Higher Power as the workings of the Holy Spirit and have found others who found the same HP along the way. My belief in the "Son" is ultimately an AA outside issue but it's an 'inside job' for this ex-drunk! The apostle Paul writes that the 'worldly wisdom is not God's wisdom.' My path of recovery led me full circle to my belief in "the peace of God that surpasses all understanding" and I am a better person for it. Richmond W.'s effort took the wheel for a while on that path. With serenity to all, Rick, Illinois On a side note, when Works Publishing and/or A.A. Publishing declined taking on the responsibilities of publishing the 24 Hours book, the Little Red Book, or any other suggestions, it really had no choice---the funding wasn't available, period. Hence, the dual-publishing of the 1953 12+12 with Harper Brothers helped its distribution, along with the same dual publishing of the 1957 AA Comes of Age with Harper's. Even the fledgling GSO in England politely, in 1954, declined to publish the 12+12 in the UK for lack of funds. ---R. - - - - FROM GLENN C. Rich had gotten sober once for two and a half years (1939-1941) in the Oxford Group, but then he went back to drinking again. From 1941 to May of 1942, Rich was not only back to drinking again, he was putting away so much alcohol that he had to be hospitalized several times, lying there suffering through the D.T.'s. But still he could not stop. "I was lying in a hospital when my wife sent a lawyer to tell me she did not want me around any longer. In this she was certainly justified -- I was of no use as a husband or father to my children." He and Agnes had been married about nineteen years at the time. He was forty-nine years old, and everything was now destroyed. It was clear to one and all that he was a hopeless alcoholic, and as he said in his lead, "my wife rightly refused to put up with it any longer." So he was very definitely "not maximum"! Finally, in May 1942, he joined the newly founded AA group in Boston, and never drank again. And also got back with his wife and family again. He says at the beginning of the Twenty Four Hour book that he obtained permission from Dodd, Mead and Company for adapting material from "God Calling by Two Listeners" for use in the fine print section at the bottom of each page. Glenn C. A SHORT BIOGRAPHY OF RICHMOND WALKER: http://hindsfoot.org/rwfla1.html http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla2.html http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla3.html (based on his memoirs plus some of the autobiographical passages in the Twenty Four Hour book) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5680. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: Lee Nickerson . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/7/2009 8:30:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I remember a discussion I had with Frank M. about the 24 hour book. I came away thinking that the only reason that AA did not conference-approve this book was because it would set a precedent other than AA publishing and creating their own literature. It seems that most AAs I know are self-fancied writers and if there was a part of the Conference that approved any writing that was submitted, there would probably have to be a separate office somewhere just to handle that load. I don't see or hear about the 24 hour Book much in my area but it was the top recommended reading when I got sober. I am satisfied with the belief that if something is not conference-approved, it is not conference-non approved. We can only examine and approve so much. - - - - From: "John Schram" (lasenby327 at surfree.com) I too had heard the the Walker book Twenty-Four Hours a Day was turned down due to meditation and prayer section. I had heard this came from book "God Calling" by A J Russell. John Schram Corona del Mar, Calif. - - - - From: James Flynn (jdf10487 at yahoo.com) I thought the Daily Reflections book was written so that AA members could have a Daily Meditations book that was conference approved. When I got sober in 1987 it was suggested to me (by a sponsor) that I get a 24 hour a day book, a Big Book, the 12 &12, Living Sober, the Little Green Book and the Little Red Book. This was to be my "spiritual stash." Apparently this was standard operating procedure in some parts of the country before the Daily Reflections book was published. I say this because I have corresponded with many other people in AA who were given similiar directions by their sponsors. Later it seemed that there was some anti-hazelden, anti-treatment sentiments going around the program and people stopped advocating the use of Hazelden publications and chips. Hazelden or "Hazelnut" as some critics liked to call it, became the object of derision. Evidently this was because they represented "watered down" AA, in some people's minds. The irony of this is that books like the 24 hour a day book actually placed more of an emphasis on the spiritual angle than some conference-approved AA literature did and was not filled with "psychobabble" or "treatment concepts" as some people like to claim. Sincerely, Jim F. - - - - From: "grault" (GRault at yahoo.com) I think it may be a bit of a stretch to say flatly that the Conference did not turn down the 24 Hour book offer because it was too religious. In fact, that may have been one of the reasons, at least in the minds of some or many of the voting Delegates. The Conference Report cites the other reason (would be flooded with requests), but of course tact would suggest avoiding also saying that the book was too religious. Many GSC discussions and delegate motives do not find their way into the GSC Report. Clearly, 24 Hours is less spcifically Christian than The Upper Room, but it often has a Christian ring to it, quotes the bible, etc. And incidentally, it seems to me that saying that the GSC actions are performed "by us" is true only to about the same extent that actions by the U.S. Congress are actions "by us" who live in the United States. Not a criticism, just an observation. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5681. . . . . . . . . . . . Two questions on Grapevine items From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 9:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Question #1- I have 2 different mini Grapevines. One has a picture of mountains on the cover and says "every month,all year" AA Grapevine our meeting in print it lists AA Steps and Traditions,Serenity Prayer,AA History,I am Responsible, and Unity Declaration I got this one around 1995 and was told that it was no longer going to be printed. In the audio tapes I received from the Kay Stewart Collection of Akron, I found an earlier copy of this mini Grapevine. It is orange and white and has pictures of Bill & Bob rather than the sketches in the newer copy. They were loaded with AA History and make for an easy introduction to AA History for someone new to AA. Does anyone know the history of this mini-Grapevine? When & Why they were produced and why they were stopped . Question #2- I have 3 copies of "The Best of Bill"-from The Grapevine The earliest are 5 separate pamphlets in a packet. They are Faith, Fear,Honesty,Humility, and Love. It shows July 1965 as a publishing date. The middle one is a single booklet, blue gray in color and on the first page says"NOTE: The statistics on pages 4 and 5 were current in 1961. AA membership is now estimated to be close to two million worldwide." It shows copyrights of 1958,1961,1962,1986,1989,and 1990. The latest is book like and has a foreword that says "In 1988, as a result of the many requests over the years for the reprints of five of these articles--"Faith", "Fear", "Honesty", "Humility"and "Love"--a Collection entitled "The Best of Bill was Compiled" Were there more than these three publications of this Grapevine edition? It appears that there may have been one from 1961. Yours in Service' Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, Pa. USA Please remember the 13th NAW in Sept on the left coast. It's our workshop..bring someone new. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5682. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book From: momaria33772 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 5:38:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Charlie, Each year Delegates are assigned to various committees within the Conference. Those committees are comprised of Delegates, Trustees and the GSO Staff. When the 4th Edition was being prepared, it was decided to keep working copies down to as few people as possible. There were fears that if everyone reviewed the work in process some stories might get out and our Copyright might get compromised. Therefore the Literature Committee members were the ones who saw the final copy and sent a recommendation to approve it to the full Conference. The 2001 Conference approved and it was sent to publication. I was fortunate to know the Delegate from my Area who was on that literature Committee and I know that she took her responsibility very seriously and did the very best she could in the review and approval process. Once the book came out, the fellowship found some things they didn't like. In 2002, some members objected to the sentence in the Forward to the Fourth Edition that said "Fundamentally, though, the differnce between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format". Many of our members disagreed with this assesment. The Literature Committee recommended that the sentence be deleted. The 2002 Conference agreed and the Forward was changed. One of the goals for the Fourth Edition was to keep it roughly the same size while introducing new stories to help new people relate. In the process, some existing stories were edited and punctuation was updated. As people read the book, some noticed the differences in their favorite stories. At the 2003 Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against restoring "The Housewife Who Drank At Home", Me, An Alcoholic?", "Another Chance", and "Freedom From Bondage" to the Third Edition version. There had been an earlier Conference Advisory Action saing that Dr. Bob's story should not be changed without written permission of 3/4 of all registered groups. The punctuation in "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" had been updated from the Third Edition version. Many of us thought that was within the spirit of that Advisory Action since it did not change the content and since that kind of editing had occurred in earlier editions. Some members submitted an Agenda item because they thought that even minor changes violated the previous Advisory Action and that no Conference had approved the specific changes. At the 2004 Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against restoring the punctuation in "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" to that of the Third Edition. When this recommendation came to the Conference, A Floor Action was submitted and the full Conference overrode the Literature Committee. When our Delegate gave his Conference report he told us that he was prepared to vote against the change in accordance with the wishes of many of us in the area. He finally voted for the Floor Action because he saw that it was an issue that was deviding AA and while he had an obligation to our Area, he had a bigger obligation to AA as a whole. I was never so proud of someone who disagreed with me as I was that day. I also saw a post that said that Hazeldon also edits and changes publications. While that may be true, the point that I was making is that the if AA were to accept a book for publication, the author would no longer own it. The fellowship could change it in significant ways without even consulting the original author. This includes content as well as grammer or punctuation. My wife and I are tapers from the St. Pete, Florida area. We have a lot of people with 50 Plus years of sobriety. When I record them at a group anniversary or at their anniversary, I will sometime send a copy to the GSO Archives. I always have to provide a release to GSO. Theoretically this gives them the right to splice it any way they wish. Of course, I don't expect them to do that. It is just that I have given up all rights just as the author of a book would have to do. Jim H --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Parker" wrote: > > What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare > and which foreword was changed?? > > Charlie Parker > Ace Golf Netting > 828 Wagon Trail > Austin, TX 78758 > Toll free 877-223-6387 > > -----Original Message----- > From: momaria33772 > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:51 PM > > I'd like to share one other thought I have had > every time anyone has brought up publishing of > any materials like these. Would the people who > love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to > have it changed at some future Delegate > Conference based on some objection that > someone in my home group had and got submitted > to the Conference Agenda? > > For those who don't believe that could happen, > I would point out that both the fourth edition > versions of the Foreword and Dr. Bob's Nightmare > have been changed based on submissions by > members and groups in the US and Canada. I > could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour > Book being radically different from the one > originally published. > > Jim H. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5683. . . . . . . . . . . . Richmond Walker''s Life From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 6:01:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Richmond Walker's own autobiographical memoir: http://hindsfoot.org/rwvt.html (Bill Pittman thought that this was a transcript of a lead which Rich gave in Rutland, Vermont in 1959, which was the way this was first posted on the Hindsfoot site. Mel Barger and I eventually came to feel, however, that this was more likely a written memoir composed by Rich at some point.) A short biography of Richmond Walker: http://hindsfoot.org/rwfla1.html http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla2.html http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla3.html (Based on the preceding memoir plus some of the autobiographical passages in the Twenty Four Hour book.) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5684. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 5:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Trysh I can't prove it, but despite the "religious" claims made by the Conference and others, I would not discount the potential effect that acceptance of the 24 Hour book would have had on the more mundane matter of Bill W's royalty agreement. The 1951 Conference approved an increase of Bill's royalties from 10% to 15%. The final Conference report states: ============================= "It was reported that the Trustees of the Foundation, following Dr. Bob's death, had voted to increase Bill's royalty on the Big Book from 10 per cent to 15 per cent. This author's royalty would also apply to other Books the Trustees are anxious to have Bill prepare for their consideration in the future. The chairman reported that Bill insisted that this increase be approved by the General Service Conference. A motion approving the action of the Trustees was approved unanimously by the Delegates. In addition, the Conference approved unanimously a motion recommending to the Trustees of the Foundation that steps be taken to insure that Bill and Lois receive book royalties so long as either one shall live. This motion was adopted after it was disclosed that under the existing arrangement Bill would have no legal basis for claiming royalties upon the expiration of the Big Book copyright and that no provision exists for Lois in the event of Bill's prior death. It was pointed out that, in the original stock set-up of Works Publishing, Inc., Bill had assigned royalties to the Foundation. Later, he had turned over to the Foundation his original 200 shares of stock, whose recent earnings have averaged $7,000-$8,000 [note: $62,000-$71,000 in 2008 dollars] annually. Thus, at one period Bill had neither stock or royalties. Prior to World War II, Bill had an average weekly income of about $30 [note: $455 in 2008 dollars] from proceeds of the "Rockefeller dinners." Later he received a drawing account of $25 a week, enabling him and Lois to move to Bedford Hills (N.Y.). When war broke out, with the possibility that he might be recalled to active duty, Bill suggested, on the basis of his authorship of the Big Book, that he be granted a royalty on book sales, as a means of providing income for Lois. This has been Bill's only source of income, with one exception, since that time. The Trustees have repeatedly offered to place him on a salaried basis, but these offers have been declined. The "exception" occurred several years ago when it was discovered that Bill's annual income for the preceding seven years that averaged $1,730---slightly more than $32. a week. The Trustees thereupon made a grant to Bill equivalent to $1,500 for each of those seven years, out of which he was able to purchase his Bedford Hills house. Inflation and the decline in book sales have combined to cut Bill's income practically in half in the past year. The five per cent increase in royalty means that his earnings will once more approximate those of three years ago. The possible implications of "professionalism" in his relation to the movement have troubled him deeply, Bill reported. He concluded that there was "no other way to go on" and that as long as he is devoting his full time to the movement, even though he would not object to a hair shirt himself, "he had no business putting one on Lois." ============================= It seems that it would have been very awkward (at best) for Bill to justify claims to royalties on his yet-to-be-written works when one of the most popular books circulating in the Fellowship was being offered gratis. That's just speculation on my part but it seems plausible. I'd suggest the same consideration for the "Little Red Book" (one of my favorites). Cheers Arthur -----Original Message----- From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Chesnut Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 3:04 PM To: AAHistoryLovers group Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: "trysh travis" (trysh.travis at gmail.com) I'd like to politely disagree about the role religion played in the Conference decision not to approve *24 Hours a Day.* I have seen Richmond Walker's correspondence with the GSO and Literature Committee members on this matter at the Archives in New York, and it is fairly clear there that religiosity was an issue. In a letter to O.K.P. dated 18 Feb. 1954, Walker wrote angrily about the rebuff he'd received from the Conference. Describing the official response to the proposal that "AA Publishing should accept the publication rights to the book *24 Hours a Day,*" Walker claimed that "favoring this proposal, the statement is made: 'The Book is accepted and used by a number of AAs who say they find it helpful.'" In opposing this proposal, two statements are made. One is, 'If a precedent is set, through acceptance of this offer, how would the movement be able to deal with the problem of many other booklets, for which Conference approval would undoubtedly be sought?....' The 2nd Statement is 'Since the booklet is regarded by some as having religious overtones, how could the movement justify its entrance into a field of publishing in which misinterpretation and misunderstanding could arise?'" After noting somewhat snippily that *24 Hours* is a "book," not a "booklet," Walker goes on to respond to what must have been a delegate's or a committee's "statements" at some length: "This book carefully refrains from any mention of religion, and it has no more 'religious overtones' than the Big Book. It is largely spiritual and inspirational, but so is the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous.' ... There is no mention of religion in the whole book, for instance, the word 'Christ' or 'Jesus' is never mentioned, nor is it ever advised that we go to church. Where then, is the 'religion'? ... we have a spiritual program" why try to deny it? ... I do not think that either of these statements opposing the proposal have been fairly stated, nor do I think that they have any basis in fact." (RW to OKP, Box 73, Folder C.) We lack a "smoking gun" where someone explicitly states "AAWSO does not want to take over publication of the book because it is too religious," but the content of this letter makes it pretty clear, I think, that Walker got that message. Further, in a response to an "Ask-It Basket" question at the 1968 Conference, "Why can't we have a 24-Hour book printed by G.S.O.?" the statement was made that "The 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day' book was offered to A.A.W.S. some years ago. The Conference then felt it was too spiritually or religiously oriented. A.A.W.S. would be reluctant to put out a similar book. since it has no wish to compete with this book. "The A.A. Way of Life' seems to serve the same need." (Conference Report 1968, p. 27). I think it is important to note this evidence of uneasiness with Walker's religiosity. The logistical and procedural reasons the Conference had for declining the book were real, but so was a skittishness about the book's palpable Christian overtones. I say they are "palpable" because while Walker is correct that Christ, Jesus, and church are never mentioned in *24 Hours,* it routinely alludes to and quotes from the Christian Bible. (I'm just skimming through my copy at random here .... Quote from St. Paul, 26 April; references to parable of the Prodigal Son, 12-13 March; quote from Mark 13:13, "he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved," 19 Feb, etc.) Walker is clearly drawing on many other spiritual sources-- including, as Glenn has pointed out elsewhere, the "New Thought" beliefs he probably developed in the Emmanuel Movement in Boston. Even if it doesn't dominate the book, however, there is a clear pattern of Christian imagery and language present, enough that Walker's claim that "there is no mention of religion" seems a bit naive, and also enough, I think, so that reasonable people might find the book too "religious." I discuss why the Conference might've been particularly concerned about this issue in the mid-1950s in my forthcoming book (which, as some of you know, I have been working on for MANY 24 hours!). We're still a few months away from the publication date, but you can get a preview of the finished product here: http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=1647. Trysh T. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5685. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 6:32:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII We should also remember that Bill inserted various "Christian Bible" snippets in both the Big Book and the Twelve and Twelve. It also appears as though he used significant Christian thought although veiled in his discussions of "foundations and cornerstones" in Chapter 4 and elsewhere. AA and its early literature were very "spiritual" (i.e non-denominational religious) in nature and AA is the fruit of a tree that was called the Oxford Group, a "First Century Christian Fellowship". Bill also quoted the bible regularly in his private correspondence. God Bless John B. - - - - From: "Rich Foss" (rich.foss at comcast.net) It is interesting to note that the first prayer in the 24 hour book is a Sanskrit proverb. Does that suggest that it is a translation of a Hindu prayer? - - - - From: Jared Lobdell (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) Both GOD CALLING and GOD AT EVENTIDE (same two listeners) are available now, and GOD CALLING has been a staple of Christian publishers (including Spire and Revell) for the last -- what? -- three quarters of a century? We know Bill didn't care to link AA too closely to the OG (MRA, whatever) -- not sure any other reason is needed for his opposing (and thus AA's opposing) a book based on a well-known OG book. - - - - From: Glenn C. (glennccc at sbcglobal.net) Jared, Other than the automatic writing, what distinctive Oxford Group doctrines do you see in God Calling by Two Listeners, which Richmond Walker copied over into Twenty-Four Hours a Day? Other than the automatic writing, I have never found anything in God Calling that seemed to me to be an identifiably Oxford Group idea: no talk of the Four Absolutes, no Five C's, no statement of the necessity of making restitution, no confession by the Two Listeners of their own sins. And most importantly, no indication that the Two Listeners had ever attended Oxford Group meetings themselves. Glenn IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5686. . . . . . . . . . . . 24 Hour Book From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 4:30:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Since the 24 Hour book (like the Bible!) is not Conference-approved, how did sending profits from its sale to GSO (between 1948 and 1954, when it was being printed under the sponsorship of the Daytona Beach AA Group) square with Tradition Seven? Laurie A. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5687. . . . . . . . . . . . Mike Wallace Interview with Lillian Roth (1956) From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 2:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The interview may be seen on your computer as a video at: http://solstice.ischool.utexas.edu/tmwi/index.php/Lillian_Roth - - - - A TRANSCRIPT OF THIS VIDEO: THE MIKE WALLACE INTERVIEW Guest: Lillian Roth Saturday, April 5, 1958 WALLACE: Good evening. Tonight we go after the latest chapter in the story of a woman who fought her way back from alcoholism and despair, to become again one of the most compelling figures in show business. She is Lillian Roth, a million dollar film star at eighteen, an alcoholic at thirty, a great torch singer only five years ago and today a woman with a new story to tell. If you're curious to know why Lillian Roth says that the past five years have been among the most difficult in her life, if you want to hear her thoughts on her conversion to Catholicism, and if you want to know why Miss Roth says that despite her recent success, she is forever trying to fill what she calls an aching, a frightening void within herself, we'll go after those stories in just a moment. My name is Mike Wallace, the cigarette is Parliament. (OPENING CREDITS) WALLACE: We'll talk with Lillian Roth in just a moment. (COMMERCIAL) WALLACE: And now to our story. Several years ago, an all but forgotten entertainer by the name of Lillian Roth, wrote a brutally frank autobiography called I'll Cry Tomorrow. It was made into a successful Hollywood film. Miss Roth herself was swamped with offers to appear in television, nightclubs. Since then Miss Roth has forged a new life, which she has written about in a new book, to be published later this month, called Beyond My Worth. Lillian, first of all, let me ask you this: After your remarkable comeback a few years ago I'd imagine that the general public's impression of you is that of a happy and successful woman, who has finally found her way. Yet, in your new book, Beyond My Worth you wrote this: you said: "I've had mornings recently when I woke up and my whole life seemed in chaos and I've said to myself, I've fallen back... I've fallen back again." Why have you felt that way? ROTH: Well, Mike, I guess it's something that stems from my childhood. I've never quite felt up to of the many amazing things that happened to me. I've never felt at school that I was as pretty as the next child, or as clever as the next child, and anytime anything happens to me, I just thought it was luck. And that was mostly all through my life, and if I did a performance and the audience were wonderful to me, I thought it really wasn't good enough, it could have been better. I've never felt quite adequate, and because... WALLACE: And so even now, in spite of the fact that you have overcome what obstacles you have overcome... ROTH: Well, you see, when I say: Beyond My Worth, I honestly feel I haven't done anything extraordinary. The public has been amazing. I've gotten mail from all over the world you'd think I was a miracle woman. And I'm not! It's through these people and with the help of God that I have been able to overcome so much, but the inadequacy and the guilt within me is still very strong and many times I feel I'm just not what they... I'm not what I seem to be. WALLACE: I gather that you find a real responsibility, an awesome responsibility in the very fact of your comeback. ROTH: I think that the battle of success is probably more difficult than the climb. People expect too much from you -- or rather, you want to be all that people expect from you, I shouldn't say that they expect too much of me because they're pretty good about it -- But it isn't only that you have to deliver the gift of your entertainment as the good Lord gifted you, but there are other things in your life and I've never professed to be a saint or a martyr. There are many people in the world overcoming greater problems which I tell of in Beyond My Worth. But comparatively speaking, mine seems simple, but this inner conflict, this inner thing that I have, I think too telling the truth about it makes people realize that they're not alone. You see people used to be able to say, "Lillian, let me help you up," after I took that first long step alone. WALLACE: Yes. ROTH: But now, through the mail I've started to feel that people were wondering if they could talk up there to me. And I'm not up there; I don't want to be up there where the people are concerned only as a performer. I want to be right alongside with them. WALLACE: You get a tremendous number of letters, I gather, calls from people who are also in a kind of pain, and trying to find their way and figure you've done it, and perhaps you can help them to find it for themselves. ROTH: Well, I... it isn't just problem letters I get. After all I'm not the know-all, see-all, and I haven't the answer to everything, but the type mail I get comes from psychiatrists, doctors, writers, priests, ministers, and there are lonely ministers, nuns, and priests all over the world and I can read between their lines too, and they think that this certainly shows the grace of God being bestowed and my difference of course is that I don't think God graces one person and not the next. But I am very grateful for their affection. WALLACE: Tell me this: Does the fear of sliding back, of hitting rock-bottom again, does that worry you, or do you feel you're over that hump? ROTH: Well, they say that... I mean, even if you should slip back a little, it isn't really slipping back. If you fall slightly, that's just another step up. I mean to step down is to step up. Sometimes we're forced to be knocked down a little bit, and then we gather our forces together, and we're that much stronger when we go again. I don't think... I think once you've hit the bottom you're not afraid down there. You just feel you don't want to disappoint people. WALLACE: Of course one of the things that sparked your comeback was your book, I'll Cry Tomorrow... and I'm sure this latest book, which is also quite revealing, will do your career no harm. Let me ask you this: Did you never think it undignified, Lillian; did you never think it in bad taste for a woman to write so candidly of her personal life and of the life of others? ROTH: Truthfully, I wasn't happy about any of it... I think I told you when I spoke to you a year ago... there's no glory in being a glorified alcoholic. If these were the steps I had to take, and there seemed to be a force that worked it out... I know when I first worked on my book coming from Australia 10 years ago, and through the years -- speaking of I'll Cry Tomorrow -- I shelved it. I closed the book and said: 'That woman!' But after this is your life, After Ralph had prevailed on me, and even there I didn't want to do it. I was hesitant. It was terrible panic when I first went to Australia. It... it just isn't a good feeling to know that you have other gifts, but I rated what was done. I mean, I rated the fact that I didn't deserve any better than to be called an alcoholic and I don't know why I should have expected extra... WALLACE: But, why did you want to write about it? Why did you want to tell and, and not only about yourself, but you wrote fairly graphically about, for instance, about being beaten by one husband, about your wedding night with another husband, a fairly prominent man, about emotional scenes with your mother. Why have... why did you find it necessary to write about these things? ROTH: Well I didn't feel that I was writing an expose, I felt I was disclosing rather than exposing. My husband felt from the inception that if I wrote everything out... I remember when I first went to a hospital for slightly mentally unbalanced, from 12, 13 years ago, I said even then I wanted to write a book... but then they told me everybody that comes in here has a book to write. So I kept it to myself for some time. But Bert told me it isn't a case of being a martyr. He said this, "In telling all and freeing yourself, and the world being a big jury, they're very fair; and in doing that, maybe somebody along to this will be helped." I'm not going to tell you that my thought was I'm going to go out and be a martyr now and help the world. I didn't feel that way; I was frightened to death when this book came out. WALLACE: Diana Barrymore, who wrote a somewhat similar book, told us that she did it as a catharsis to get the past out of her system. Was that...? You smile when I say that. ROTH: Well, I really... I'm not living my past any more. I'm creating new thoughts and new habits. A priest once told me, this may answer it by a thought, that there are certain bad characteristics or formation of a bad character that is always there with bad habits, but you can create good habits and work on them so often that you form a new character and I feel that if... I'm not speaking, necessarily about Miss Barrymore, but anyone that continues to live as they lived in the past, isn't doing anything to send out a message or to help someone in distress. Not that they have to. But what is the sense of the book? If you're going to go to all this embarrassment, you might be helpful while doing it. And I... I think it has... well, I shouldn't speak about what it's proven, but it has helped many people be able to overcome certain pain that they've had. WALLACE: I'm certain of that. Have you ever wondered, though, why the American public seems to be so fascinated with this kind of story? Is it possibly just the desire to look... to look across the courtyard into somebody else's open window? ROTH: Well, I think where my story is concerned, it goes back to an old philosophy that I read that said, "In each man's heart there's a secret sorrow that the world knows nothing about." And often we call a man 'cold' when he's really just sad. And I think that humanity feels that their sorrow is for you and their compassion is for you, but it has touched a part of their hearts that they will not open the door themselves. They won't even begin... and in the subconscious the tie is there... WALLACE: They see a little of themselves in you and that is why they want to read and hear and... ROTH: Yes, and... and even youngsters that write to me, they tell me they understand the problems at home more and I just think it's reached, that's all. WALLACE: Let's look at some of the things you write about. One of them, which helped you rehabilitate yourself, has been religion. In your new book, you write with complete assurance... "God loves me." How do you know He does? ROTH: Because I think God is all loving, just as a parent would be, that they love their children good, bad or indifferent. And it's often been said, I believe, sum and substance of the Bible is that little black sheep that strayed away, that worries him so very much, He hopes it will come back some day. WALLACE: Lillian, who is God? ROTH: God is everything that's quite wonderful and the... you know I always quote because I think that the authenticity of a thing... After all I'm a new writer, I don't even know if I have a great talent except of telling of myself and giving of myself. But a man like Emerson says that God made... almost everything He made had a crack in it... and I thought that was such a good thought. We have... we don't have this feeling of perfection, but to please Him we'd like to improve ourselves. And I think he's all loving and he's always there, we just don't always know it. WALLACE: Let me pursue this a little more specifically. You were born into a Jewish family, yet several years ago you converted to Catholicism. Why was Judaism apparently unsatisfactory, unfulfilling for you? ROTH: Oh, I don't think that Judaism was a case of unfulfillment, I think that Catholicism is a fulfillment of Judaism as far as the acceptance of the Messiah. It... My only difficulty has been in the last two years with all my respect to the Church because it doesn't make me right and the Church wrong, I can't go in and say now this is Lillian's way of doing it. I just felt that certain man made dogma little things simple as a child. They say "Come as little children." Well, some of the little flaws or that I felt were flaws, flaws within myself -- the question -- were child like things, and I have never denied my Judaism and as a matter of fact, I learned... WALLACE: But how -- wait -- How can you convert from Judaism to Catholicism and yet not deny your Judaism? ROTH: Well, of course, I have a different theory. I believe that an Irishman's an Irishman, a Jew is a Jew, an American-Irishman, American Jew. I can't see saying that it is merely a religion, I don't go along with that. I think Christ on the Cross which I spoke to you last time was a Jew who never denied his Judaism and Christian came from the word "Follower of Christ" and so therefore that's an acceptance of the Jewish Messiah and he stated he came to fulfill the law, so I don't see where there's a denial of Judaism or... how can you deny what you are? WALLACE: You didn't feel the least bit disloyal when you turned from Judaism as a religion to Catholicism as a religion? ROTH: Well, in this way, the physical sense, the material sense, I do believe there is a time in the Bible that Christ says that "They will mock you in my name sake and that..." and it did come in the minority. People were very good about it, they didn't care how I found God as long as I had Him, but I don't think there was too much resentment. I did have feelings of guilt but I would have to rise above it and try to get into a spiritual way and to my own self be true. You know Mike, they wrote about you in the LaGorian which Father Clyber who is a Jew and a priest convert to Catholicism and he sends me the LaGorian and it's strange, a few weeks ago they had an article where you asked the Catholic Church some questions. WALLACE: Yes. ROTH: While I was reading it, I also read an article about the face... Five Faces of a Hypocryte and I thought to myself, one of the things were those that professed to be a Christian, you know, and wear the face of a hypocrite, and I thought that went along with my thinking, that if I were to take and to continue taking sacraments, at a time when I felt in the eyes of God, I didn't go along with it, I would be wearing that face of a hypocrite. And, although I'm lonely, not belonging at the moment... WALLACE: You... Have you forsaken Catholicism now? ROTH: Well I... I hope God hasn't forsaken me, that's the main point and I feel that in conscience I can look up to Him and that what is right to do, he will lead me to. One wonderful thing about the Catholics and the Catholic Church, and my own people too is that they don't desert you, you may desert them but they say you shall be back. But I think it's along the lines of wherever the good Lord wants you, that's where you'll be. WALLACE: You were a member of Alcoholics Anonymous? ROTH: Yes. WALLACE: Did you regard that...? -- are you still a member of AA? ROTH: Well I follow the principles. I believe with AA, of course I don't advise this for a newcomer, but I think just as you get well, after you come out of a hospital, I don't think that you have to sit in the hospital, come back every day; I think you use the medicines and in this case it's the suggestions and principles of AA. WALLACE: Did you regard...? -- Do members of AA regard it themselves as kind of a religion? ROTH: No, to the best of my knowledge, they believe that AA will direct people back to their own religions or give them some spiritual contact with God. WALLACE: Back in 1955, one of the co-founders of Alcoholics Anonymous wrote a thought provoking pamphlet in which he warned former alcoholics against, resuming what he called, quote: "our old and disastrous pursuit of personal power and prestige, public honors and money." He suggested that these are egotistical, self-seeking ephemeral things and if the alcoholic or the former alcoholic were to lose them again, that could shatter a person all over again. Now you are a fairly ambitious woman. Do you ever feel that perhaps you're pushing... pursuing the dangerous course now in going after prestige, money, public honor once again? ROTH: Well I'm pretty sure that when the good Lord put us on this earth, he knew that there were human footsteps to take and he certainly doesn't want us to be a ward of a state. Whatever our job is, whether we're a truck driver and go back to trucking, or a waitress go back to the waitress. Every job is important in life and mine was to go back to singing and as I said earlier, there's no glory in it. Now, these rules that you read; you see, when I joined AA there was no such thing as a rule. There were suggestions. I wasn't anonymous, I... when I was drinking, of course, and I didn't wish this type publicity but I have found the press to be fair. I've said it over and over again: it came out and they could just, as well, have gone to the morgue and dug up any story. I don't think that there is glory in saying: Look, I want a lot of gold stars; I want to be up in lights 'cause I'm a cured alcoholic. I mean, it's a little bit ridiculous, I feel that I'm now after 5 years or 12 years that I have had my sobriety, free from the bonds of sympathy. I don't feel if the public comes back three and four times or I'm asked to appear places that many times that they come back to see what an alcoholic that doesn't drink anymore looks like. WALLACE: Lillian in a moment I'd like to ask you about something that you write of quite movingly in your new book. You write, "All people go through life with a void inside them." You write that even love and marriage probably doesn't vanish entirely that feeling of aloneness, of lostness; you say, "The void seems to remain during life." I'd like to know why you say that. And we'll get Lillian Roth's answer in just 60 seconds. (COMMERCIAL) WALLACE: Lillian, in your book you write, "Within us, there seems to be an aching, a frightening void we are forever trying to fill but never quite do. We're always alone." What do you mean? ROTH: You've never felt that feeling? WALLACE: Uh-huh. ROTH: Well, with the hundreds of people, the thousands of people I've met, it's a strange empathy I guess I get and maybe at times contrary to belief, I'm subject to a slight melancholia but I look across a room at a person and somehow the way the shoulder is, a certain look in his face, the age of the face, I know that the man has lived a life that hasn't had any great joy in it but he's worked very hard. I never saw Death of a Salesman but I imagine the expression that I've seen on the pictures of that man's face, I've seen in so many faces and you want to go over and say, "Oh, I want to do something, say something to you." And also I feel that when two people love each other and are married, the ache of loneliness for someone that's gone that you wish could be part of this and they're not there anymore to see it, your parents or your loved ones can see all this, and also if you have your separate little problems and you don't want to put it on one another. You don't want to tell the fears. Lots of times, -- and Bert probably is watching tonight, he's in California, he hasn't been too well and it's our first time we've been apart in 12 years but you see we're not really apart -- but a lot of times does that void... he may have an ache or pain, he says, "I don't want to tell Lillian." I may have a certain worry, I think he almost made me come to New York so that I wouldn't be there to worry; but it's not just me or just Bert, it's... I don't know whether it's a longing to a return properly, Freud said: to the mother... the original birth state or to a humanity and those of the Church who are so longing to return to God, but we are surely never complete here on this earth. WALLACE: Are you going to...? -- Do you believe that you will find your completeness after life? ROTH: Oh well, I certainly hope and I feel like I'm on the verge of some discovery and I don't like to delve too much because I don't want to go back to Bloomingdale's, they'll say this gal is odd, but I know that Lecomte du Noüy you recall the book that fascinated me so, the physicist that wrote Human Destiny, he said that the odd person of today is just the normal person, you know a century from now when you have these dreams and ideals. And I think all those wonderful stars and planets that we're trying to reach so hard, we're going to sit all around them one day in the hereafter and those will be the different stages until we'll reach our final place. WALLACE: You mentioned Freud. Have you ever thought about analysis? ROTH: Well I did have a doctor, A. A. Bill who passed away... sent me to the original place to rest my little mind when I was thirty-four years old and up there they didn't believe in my particular case that there should be deep analysis. They feel that it takes about a year and a half and if you can't discover what's wrong in a year and a half, that's bad. And if it takes any longer, it's real bad. If there's nothing wrong, there will be something wrong and I don't mean to interfere with the psychoanalysis but that was Doctor Bill's advice where I was concerned. WALLACE: Lillian, when you add it all up, all of the tragic things that have happened to you, all of the unhappiness that rarely comes to one human being, and I ask this question perfectly seriously, have you ever or do you now ever regret the fact that you were born? ROTH: No, no. Look I knew my mother and I knew my father and so many wonderful people, I think it's all been worth it. I think I have a greater appreciation for life than I ever had with all my little hesitancies, a greater gratitude. I'm gradually learning more compassion and understanding and I just hope I can be. I don't intend to be or hope to be a saint but I hope I can, in some measure, repay the good that's come to me. And, I don't mean that as a Pollyanna or Little Orphan Annie glad all over, Annie Rooney, is that it? I just think that I... I think life has been very good to me and it takes those steps to give you that appreciation. WALLACE: Lil, what makes you happiest? ROTH: Well I don't think that there's any way to judge a complete happiness. I don't think there's such a thing as "happiness". I know my little dogs though, you know our two little dogs out on the coast, and I got very lonesome... Do you think I have time to...? WALLACE: I'm sorry we only have about fifteen seconds. ROTH: Oh... well I have the cutest little things about dogs. I think that we all get a great joy from the animals... one thing in the world that loves you without question. WALLACE: Lillian, thank you for coming and spending this half hour and I know lots of people who want to read your new book Beyond My Work. ROTH: Thank you, Mike. WALLACE: Few come back stories have been as compelling as Lillian Roth's, perhaps because it seems to be a story that has no end, no artificial happy conclusion. Miss Roth's comeback has been in the truest sense the search for her self. It has also been an inspiration for other searchers. I'll be back in a moment with a rundown on next week's guest, one of the world's youngest and most embattled diplomats from one of the world's youngest and most embattled countries. (COMMERCIAL) WALLACE: Next week we go after the story of violence in the Middle East, the threat to world peace from hostility between the Arabs and Israel. Our guest will be the Israeli Ambassador to the United States and the United Nations, Abba Eban. If you're curious to know Ambassador Eban's answer to the Arab charge that Israel endangers world peace through a policy of war like expansion, and his reply to the Arab statement that his country, Israel must eventually go bankrupt, we'll go after those stories on the eve of Israel's tenth anniversary as a nation next week. Till then for Parliament, Mike Wallace. Good night. ANNCR: The Mike Wallace Interview has been brought to you by the new High Filtration Parliament. Parliament! Now for the first time at popular price. (CLOSING CREDITS) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5688. . . . . . . . . . . . Travis, Language of the Heart From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 4:26:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII By Trysh Travis The Language of the Heart: A Cultural History of the Recovery Movement from Alcoholics Anonymous to Oprah Winfrey University of North Carolina Press, January 2010 http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=1647 In The Language of the Heart Trysh Travis explores the rich cultural history of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and its offshoots and the larger "recovery movement" that has grown out of them. Moving from AA's beginnings in the mid-1930s as a men's fellowship that met in church basements to the thoroughly commercialized addiction treatment centers of today, Travis chronicles the development of recovery and examines its relationship to the broad American tradition of self-help, highlighting the roles that gender, mysticism, and print culture have played in that development. Travis draws on hitherto unexamined materials from AA's archives as well as a variety of popular recovery literatures. Her analysis traces AA's embrace of the concept of addiction as disease, the rise of feminist sobriety discourse and the codependence theories of the 1970s and 80s, and Oprah Winfrey's turn-of-the-millennium popularization of metaphysical healing. What unites these varied cultures of recovery, Travis argues, is their desire to offer spiritual solutions to problems of gender and power. Treating self-help seekers as individuals whose intellectual and aesthetic traditions are worth excavating, The Language of the Heart is the first book to attend to the evolution and variation found within the recovery movement and to treat recovery with the attention to detail that its complexity requires. - - - - Referred to in: Message #5678 Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: "trysh travis" (trysh.travis at gmail.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5689. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Travis, Language of the Heart From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 7:53:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dear Trysh, I've been following historylovers correspondence re 24 Hour book and read yr contribution with interest; I also look forward to reading "The Language of the Heart", the same title that the Grapevine gave to its compilation of Bill W's writings, which might confuse some AA's! The blurb says your book records, inter alia, "AA's embrace of the concept of addiction as disease." Apart from the fact that AA sticks to its experience of alcoholism and does not generalise about the nature of addiction, let me quote my letter which was published in the March 2004 Grapevine, viz: "The November 2003 Grapevine loosely conflates disease with illness. The first 164 pages of the Big Book refer to alcoholism as illness or malady, rather than disease. As Bill W. said, when he addressed the National Clergy Conference on Alcoholism in 1960, 'We (AA) have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Hence, we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism as a disease entity. Therefore, we call it an illness, or malady - a far safer term for us to use.' A few years ago, the General Service Office in New York said in a letter to me: 'Our role as a society of recovered alcoholics helping others does not endow us with any mediacal or scientific stature. Therefore, the issue of a medical determination of a disease is something on which AA could not have a position.' If a physician said I had the disease of diabetes and that my only hope of recovery was a spiritual awakening, I would demand a second opinion. We can use disease as a metaphor for alcoholism, as in 'other spiritual diseases' (Big Book); but given the different theories about the causes of alcoholism, the Fellowship would do well not to claim any special medical expertise and thus avoid being drawn into this controversy, as Tradition Ten suggests." (saved on Grapevine digital archive). The distinction between disease and illness is explored in John Crossan's book, "Jesus: a revolutionary biography" - Harper Collins. Treatment centres have their own reasons for claiming all addictions are the same, and that alcoholism is a disease. It would be unfortunate if your book suggested AA took the same view. Abundant blessings, Laurie A. (DOS 8/10/84) - - - - Original Message #5688 By Trysh Travis The Language of the Heart: A Cultural History of the Recovery Movement from Alcoholics Anonymous to Oprah Winfrey University of North Carolina Press, January 2010 http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=1647 In The Language of the Heart Trysh Travis explores the rich cultural history of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and its offshoots and the larger "recovery movement" that has grown out of them. Moving from AA's beginnings in the mid-1930s as a men's fellowship that met in church basements to the thoroughly commercialized addiction treatment centers of today, Travis chronicles the development of recovery and examines its relationship to the broad American tradition of self-help, highlighting the roles that gender, mysticism, and print culture have played in that development. Travis draws on hitherto unexamined materials from AA's archives as well as a variety of popular recovery literatures. Her analysis traces AA's embrace of the concept of addiction as disease, the rise of feminist sobriety discourse and the codependence theories of the 1970s and 80s, and Oprah Winfrey's turn-of-the-millennium popularization of metaphysical healing. What unites these varied cultures of recovery, Travis argues, is their desire to offer spiritual solutions to problems of gender and power. Treating self-help seekers as individuals whose intellectual and aesthetic traditions are worth excavating, The Language of the Heart is the first book to attend to the evolution and variation found within the recovery movement and to treat recovery with the attention to detail that its complexity requires. - - - - Referred to in: Message #5678 Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: "trysh travis" (trysh.travis at gmail.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5690. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Travis, Language of the Heart From: Fiona Dodd . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 4:51:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Actually disease is mentioned on page 64 of The Big Book. "Resentment is the "number one offender". It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. From it stems all forms of spiritual disease, for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick." And AA number 3, Bill D uses the expression disease. Disease, illness, malady? Semantics. Fiona IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5691. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Travis, Language of the Heart From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 5:09:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Laurie, It strikes me that the question of whether alcoholism was or was not referred to as a "disease" during the early AA period is a lot more complicated than you are implying. - - - - See for example one of the best modern sociological studies of Alcoholics Anonymous: http://hindsfoot.org/kas1.html Annette R. Smith, Ph.D., "The Social World of Alcoholics Anonymous: How It Works," with an introduction by Linda Farris Kurtz, DPA, Hindsfoot Foundation Series on Treatment and Recovery (New York: iUniverse, 2007), pp. 74-75. Annette Smith notes that: The word "disease" appears only three times in the A.A. Big Book. It is mentioned first on page 64 in discussing alcoholism, then again at the beginning of the second part of the book in the story of Bill Dotson, the Akron lawyer who was Alcoholics Anonymous Number Three. When Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob visited Dotson in the hospital, they told him he had "a disease," and when he explained his conversion to his wife, he told her he felt that God had cured him "of this terrible disease." (AAWS, 1976:187-188, 191) However, in spite of its avoidance of the specific word "disease," alcoholism is referred to over and over again throughout the book as a "sickness," a "malady," and an "ailment," and alcoholics are characterized as persons who are "sick" or "ill." In the Personal Stories section of the third edition of the Big Book, one of the subtitles is "How Forty-Three Alcoholics Recovered From Their Malady." [NOTE 44] Kurtz (2002:5) states that despite the fact that "A.A. does not promote the disease concept of alcoholism," most members refer to their alcoholism as a disease. However, this can be regarded more as a metaphor than as a literal description in the sense in which the word disease is usually employed in technical medical terminology (Kurtz, 1979:199-202). Use of this metaphor removes the stigma generally attached to alcoholism in society, allowing A.A. participants to see themselves as "sick" rather than "bad" (Conrad and Schneider, 1980), and to assume the "sick role" (Parsons, 1952), so that recovery becomes possible. As will be shown in this chapter, dealing with and finally accepting this concept is crucial in enabling newcomers to move through the four progressive stages of becoming integrated into A.A.'s social world. NOTE 44. Sick, sick person, or sickness on pages 18, 64, 67, 90, 92, 100, 101, 106, 107, 108, 115, 139, 140, 141, 147, 149, 153, 157, and 164. Ill or illness on pages 7, 18, 20, 30, 44, 92, 107, 108, 115, 118, 122, 139, 140, and 142. The words ail or ailment are used on pages 135, 139, 140. Malady appears on pages 23, 64, 92, 138, 139, and 165. (AAWS, 1976) AAWS. 1976. Alcoholics Anonymous. 3rd ed. New York: Alcoholics Anonymous World Services. Orig. pub. 1939. Kurtz, Ernest. 1979. Not-God: A History of Alcoholics Anonymous. Center City, Minn: Hazelden. Kurtz, Ernest. 2002. "Alcoholics Anonymous and the Disease Concept of Alcoholism." Alcoholism Treatment Quarterly 20 (Nos. 3/4): 5-40. Conrad, Peter and Joseph W. Schneider. 1980. Deviance and Medicalization: From Badness to Sickness. St. Louis: C.V. Mosby. Parsons, Talcott and Renee Fox. 1952. "Illness, Therapy and the Modern Urban American Family." The Journal of Social Issues 8(4):31-34. - - - - It is impossible, I believe, to discuss the issue of why alcoholism was regarded as a disease in early AA without a detailed and careful study of Sally Brown and David R. Brown, A Biography of Mrs. Marty Mann. We can start with p. xiii, a citation of "Imagine Such a Disease" by the President of the American Medical Society. And then go on to p. 10, where the Brown's describe the basic credo which Marty publicized all over the United States: "Alcoholism is a disease and the alcoholic is a sick person. The alcoholic can be helped and is worth helping. This is a public health problem and therefore a public responsibility." - - - - Or let us note how the issue is discussed by Bill Swegan, the principal spokesman for the wing of early AA which stressed the psychological side of AA rather than the spiritual side. Sgt. Bill Swegan, On the Military Firing Line in the Alcoholism Treatment Program, pp. 13-15 "Alcoholism is not a behavior problem, but a very complex disease" "In the past half century, more has been accomplished to recognize, define, and eliminate the stigma associated with alcoholism than had been brought about in any previous era. At the heart of this change has been the partial removal of the old principle of defining alcoholism by the behavior it produces, and the progress that has been made in solving many of the mysteries surrounding the disease. It is an illness, and this is now recognized by most health agencies, medical treatment facilities, and therapists. Some resistance to the disease concept still remains however among law enforcement people, who often still wish to regard it completely as a behavior problem. And this is also usually true among the members of the alcoholic's family. We must not forget that parents, brothers and sisters, spouses and children, are the ones who are constantly exposed to the negative consequences of the alcoholic behavior. It is difficult indeed for families to think of alcoholism as a disease, when they are the ones who are most immediately subjected to all of the financial and social pressures caused by the alcoholic family member, and they are the ones most likely to suffer physically from the alcoholic's rages and tantrums and automobile accidents .... Because even the major components of behavior differ widely from alcoholic to alcoholic, it is easy for someone who is an alcoholic to pretend to himself that he is not. I certainly did that to myself when I was in my twenties: convincing me that I was in fact an alcoholic was a very difficult process, even though when you read my story, this may seem preposterous. How could I conceivably not have known, quite early on, that I was an alcoholic? It was because people would point at so-and-so, and say that he was an alcoholic, and I seemed to myself to be totally different from that person, in numerous essential ways. Therefore -- I would try to convince myself -- if he is an alcoholic, then I am not, because I am not the same as him. Since alcoholism produces guilt and destroys the alcoholic's feelings of self-worth, this produces even greater barriers to responding in any kind of positive way. If I had to admit that I had become an alcoholic, then I would feel even guiltier than I already did back when I was in my twenties (which was overwhelm- ingly great), and my almost totally-demolished sense of self-worth would have been even further destroyed. So I fought any attempt by others to try to convince me that I had a problem with drinking. We must continue working to educate people about the true nature of alcoholism. It is not a behavior problem, and the kind of guilt I felt about my compulsive drinking was inappropriate. I had to do something about it, and I had to do it before I was totally destroyed by it. But becoming ill is not a matter for which one should feel guilt, nor is contracting an illness something which should shatter one's sense of self-worth. We do not blame sick people in a civilized society, but help them to get well again. And if I myself fall prey to some treatable disease, from which I could recover by taking appropriate steps, the intelligent response is not to feel that I have become worthless, but to take those steps which I must take to bring about my recovery." - - - - If you want to talk about what Jellinek believed and said, you have to ask "Jellinek when?" because he changed his position over a period of time. But he is most often remembered for his 1960 book which was entitled "The Disease Concept of Alcoholism." And Jellinek also means his AA disciples, like Searcy Whaley in Dallas, Texas, to whom Bill W. sent Ebby to see if Searcy could get him sober. - - - - What I'm trying to say here is, that if you want to discuss the question of whether or not alcoholism is properly to be regarded as a "disease" or an "illness" or a "malady" (or as something else entirely), this is perfectly all right. And we can talk about our own theories about what is "good AA" and what is "bad AA." But once you start talking about "what the Big Book says" and "what early AA people believed," you have to go back and actually read the early documents, and accurately report what those folks actually said on that subject. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5692. . . . . . . . . . . . the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: trysh travis . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 1:12:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Responding to Art's comment about the impact that "the acceptance of the 24 Hour book would have had on the more mundane matter of Bill W's royalty agreement," I agree that this was a consideration for the Conference, and I think comparing the responses Bill (and the delegates, and the New York office generally) had to *24 Hours* and to *The Little Red Book* is key. From my reading of the correspondence, I'd say that in both cases, there were concerns about whether the "spirituality" on offer in the books was maybe a little too Christian for comfort, combined with anxieties about how the books' popularity might cut into the revenue generated by Big Book sales and necessary to keep the work of the GSO alive. Add to this the steady stream of letters from people who wanted to publish their own guides to AA-- often 12-Step ideas mingled in with suggestions about diet, exercise, or the power of positive thinking-- and you get an interlocking set of problems that must've assumed nightmarish proportions. What impresses me most about this history is the constant willingness to search for a middle ground for consensus decision-making. "Live and let live" is a lesson that a lot of big organizations today could benefit from adopting as their motto! Trysh T. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5693. . . . . . . . . . . . Early black AA members From: azmikefitz . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/7/2009 10:53:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "hesofine2day" wrote: > > Does anyone know the identity of the first > black woman in AA? I am in the process of having and old audio library digitized, Several of the talks that I have found are labeled "colored group", one group was called group #43 and the panel discusses the steps. Dated 1959. I'll look for earlier ones. Mike F. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5694. . . . . . . . . . . . Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? From: Shane . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2009 12:36:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I live in Upland, California, which is 40 miles east of Los Angeles. On June 27,2009 we are having a birthday party for Dick C. of Ontario, Ca. He is 95 yrs old and has 60 yrs of sobriety. We were told that he is the oldest living member of AA with 60 yrs of sobriety. Does anyone know of any other AA member still living who is that old with 60 yrs or more of sobriety??? His two sons, and the local AA community would like to know. Shane P. Area 5 Archivist IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5695. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: illness vs. disease From: marionoredstone . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 8:46:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: From (MarionORedstone at aol.com) Footnotes from my upcoming book Inside these Rooms From E. Kurtz, PhD, Monograph Alcoholics Anonymous and the Disease Concept of Alcoholism (2000) In 1938, while preparing the manuscript of the A.A. Big Book, Bill Wilson asked Dr. Bob Smith (a proctologist) about the accuracy of referring to alcoholism as a disease or one of its synonyms. Bob's reply, scribbled in a large hand on a small sheet of his letterhead, read: "Have to use disease -- sick -- only way to get across hopelessness," the final word doubly underlined and written in even larger letters. (Smith in Akron to Wilson) The answer William Griffith Wilson gave when specifically asked about alcoholism as disease after he had addressed the annual meeting of the National Catholic Clergy Conference of Alcoholism in 1961: âWe have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity. Therefore we always called it an illness, or a malady --â“ far safer term for us to use.â In A.A.âs pamphlet, 44 Questions, the answer to the question What is Alcoholism? It is said: There are many different ideas about what alcoholism really is. The explanation that seems to make sense to most A.A. members is that alcoholism is an illness, a progressive illness, which can never be cured but which, like some other illnesses, can be arrested. Going one step further, many A.A.s feel that the illness represents the combination of a physical sensitivity to alcohol and a mental obsession with drinking, which, regardless of consequences, cannot be broken by will power alone. - - - - From GFC: what does the Big Book actually say? 3 TIMES: The word "disease" appears three times in the A.A. Big Book. It is said explicitly (in the first instance) or implied by context (in the other two usages) that alcoholism is a "spiritual disease." It is mentioned first on page 64 in discussing alcoholism: "Resentment is the 'number one' offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. From it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick. When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically." Note that the words disease, ill, sick, and malady are treated by Bill Wilson here as exact synonyms. All four words meant exactly the same thing in the Big Book when it was published in 1939. Then again at the beginning of the second part of the book in the story of Bill Dotson, the Akron lawyer who was Alcoholics Anonymous Number Three, the word disease is also used. When Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob visited Dotson in the hospital, they told him he had "a disease," and when he explained his spiritual conversion to his wife, he told her he felt that God had cured him "of this terrible disease." So the word disease may only appear 3 times in the Big Book, but in each instance, it was a vitally important time, where Bill Wilson was talking about the very heart and core of the AA program. 19 TIMES: Sick, sick person, or sickness on pages 18, 64, 67, 90, 92, 100, 101, 106, 107, 108, 115, 139, 140, 141, 147, 149, 153, 157, and 164. 14 TIMES: Ill or illness on pages 7, 18, 20, 30, 44, 92, 107, 108, 115, 118, 122, 139, 140, and 142. ONLY 6 TIMES: Malady appears on pages 23, 64, 92, 138, 139, and 165. ONLY 3 TIMES: The words ail or ailment are used on pages 135, 139, 140. - - - - From: Laurie Andrews (jennylaurie1 at hotmail.com) Friends, I don't recall using the phrase "what early AA people believed"; I quoted Bill W and the Big Book. Bill cautioned against describing alcoholism as a disease entity and went so far as to say AA didn't use the term, preferring malady, sickness etc. Disease is only mentioned once in the first part of the book, where the program is outlined; here the reference is to "spiritual" disease, and I'm not sure how a physician would be qualified to diagnose that condition. Bill D mentions disease in the stories section and others might do in later editions, but that's their personal opinion, not AA "policy". I've read "Mrs Marty Mann: the first lady of Alcoholics Anonymous"; she had own agenda. Seems to me Glenn makes the same error as the Grapevine in conflating disease with illness (malady, ailment etc). They are not the same; I can be ill or sick but not necessarily have a disease. That many AA's lazily use the term disease to describe their (and my!) condition doesn't make it right. Ringwald (op cit) writes: "William Miller and Ernest Kurtz, two respected researchers and observers, compiled various outside conceptions of alcoholism mistakenly attributed to Alcoholics Anonymous. AA literature, they write, does not assert that there is only one form of alcoholism or only one way to recover; that alcoholics are responsible for their condition; that moderate drinking is impossible for every problem drinker; that alcoholics suffer from denial and should be bullied into treatment; or that alcoholism is purely a physical or hereditary disorder. AA's core beliefs do, however, resonate with or resemble those of other fields from which it has often borrowed or which it has influenced." In meeting after meeting I hear AA's making these and other claims; these opinions are also often voiced at public information gatherings by those who simply haven't studied the sources. Till the shadows flee away, laurie A. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5696. . . . . . . . . . . . Change to foreword, 4th ed. of Big Book From: buckjohnson41686 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 2:28:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Foreward to 4th edition was changed, page xxiv, line 10. First printing has "Fundamentally, though, the difference between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format." This was deleted, not sure which printing. - - - - Message #5670 from "Charlie Parker" (charlieparker at prodigy.net) What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare and which foreword was changed?? Charlie Parker - - - - Original Message #5668 From: momaria33772 Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 I'd like to share one other thought I have had every time anyone has brought up publishing of any materials like these. Would the people who love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to have it changed at some future Delegate Conference based on some objection that someone in my home group had and got submitted to the Conference Agenda? For those who don't believe that could happen, I would point out that both the fourth edition versions of the Foreword and Dr. Bob's Nightmare have been changed based on submissions by members and groups in the US and Canada. I could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour Book being radically different from the one originally published. Jim H. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5697. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: profits from 24 Hour Book sent to New York AA From: grault . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2009 12:35:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII No 7th Tradition problem: If the money contributed to the GSO came from an AA member or an AA group, it wouldn't matter how the donor(s) earned the money (i.e., whether through selling books, practicing law, winning the lottery, etc.) --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Andrews wrote: > > Since the 24 Hour book (like the Bible!) > is not Conference-approved, how did sending > profits from its sale to GSO (between 1948 > and 1954, when it was being printed under > the sponsorship of the Daytona Beach AA > Group) square with Tradition Seven? > > Laurie A. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5698. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: Lynn Sawyer . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 3:04:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: From: Lynn Sawyer (sawyer7952 at yahoo.com) For our information, 'Bill's Story' refers to Christ on pg. 11: "To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him. His moral teaching -- most excellent. For myself, I had adopted those parts which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded." Lynn S Sacramento, California - - - - From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com) We quote Bill W to support the religious or so called spiritual aspect of AA, but ignore Bill W's statements, " is not a religious organization. There is no dogma. The one Theological proposition is a power greater than one's self. Even that concept is forced on no one." "Additionally, he said, AA is a benign anarchy and democracy." As far as spirituality is concerned, it is not mine to decide if I am spiritual or not. But I can try not to be unspiritual, and hope I make the right guesses. - - - - From: "J. Lobdell" (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) But A. J. Russell was a leading OG writer and known as such (FOR SINNERS ONLY which is a kind of model for the revelations of GOD CALLING), and GOD CALLING was unquestionably an OG book in Bill's mind (and I think the public mind) -- and the doctrine of private revelation was recognizably an OG doctrine. And of course, tho' God Calling didn't have the four A's and the five C's, Rich Walker's little black book did, so was twice or thrice an OG book. At least that's my interpretation of the reasons behind the turn-down. Not that the little black book was too religious but that it was too Oxford Group "religious" -- I think. - - - - From: Tom Hickcox (cometkazie1 at cox.net) I would like to note that what is not said is often more interesting than what is said, I can imagine the storm that could have erupted had religiosity been given as the reason for turning down the 24 Hour Book. In my opinion they took the easier, softer way and followed that by rejecting the Little Red Book, which to me, at least, has much less religious imagery, for the same reason. I would also note that we are looking at the 24 Hour Book with 21st century eyes. The criteria for what may be considered religious today have shifted from what they were fifty-five years ago. I use Emmet Fox's _Around the Year with Emmet Fox_ in my daily meditations. To me it is less religious than _The Upper Room_ was, but more religious than the 24 Hour Book. Post-modernism has changed the ball game. My point is that for its time the 24 Hour Book was not very religious, but applying today's standards it is more so. Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5699. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book (and Harper publishers) From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2009 10:11:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Glenn The written evidence on Harper & Brothers role in AA publishing (for both the 12&12 and AA Comes of Age) points to them simply being the channel for releasing books to the public through commercial outlets and not as an additional source of income. In fact the board of trustees declined to accept royalty payments from Harpers (reported to the 1954 Conference). The 1951 Conference raised Bill W's royalties from 10% to 15%. The 1952 Conference approved a large list of publishing projects suggested by a committee of board of trustees for future publications and approved six (6) publishing projects proposed by Bill and then added ten (10) publishing projects proposed by the Delegates themselves. These kind of actions do not sustain the notion of any kind of cash crunch for publishing in the 1950s. From what I can glean from final Conference reports, it appears that Harper's & Brothers was brought in primarily to be the channel of distribution of books to non-AAs through commercial channels (the key link to them as a distribution channel was Eugene Exman of pre-publication Big Book fame). The publishing relationship between AA and Harpers lasted well into the 1970s. It's a bit odd that the Conference declined to accept publication rights to "24 Hours a Day" because, approximately two decades later there was actually a case where a book wwas sold through GSO that was not published by AA and whose independent authorship was clearly acknowledged. Harper was involved in this as well. It involved the book "Bill W" by Robert Thompsen. It was sold through GSO from 1971-1976 at which point the Conference stopped it. That book was distributed through Harper (Harper & Row). Back to the notion of whether there was any kind of cash crunch. The final report of the 1953 Conference states:"After long and careful consideration, and following a poll of Conference members, the Trustees approved the publishing firm of Harper & Bros. as distributors of Bill's new book to non-A.A. outlets. The Society retains full ownership of the copyright and remains the actual publisher. The new arrangement will benefit the movement by getting increased attention for a basic document on fundamental principles of the Society, and through certain printing and distribution economies. Within ten days after announcement of the new book had been sent to the groups, orders for nearly 6,000 copies had been received at General Service Headquarters. In 1954, the board of trustees reported to the Conference that it "Decided not to accept, a royalty of $.25 per copy on sales of a book on The Twelve Steps, which had been offered by the publishers." The 1954 PI Conference Committee recommended: "That, in connection with publication of Bill's book "A.A. Comes of Age" we augment Harper's review list, and that no aggressive radio or television publicity efforts for the book be made." Finally, the 1976 Conference recommended: "That G.S.O. discontinue distribution of the "Bill W." book [the biography published by Harper & Row], dispose of the present supply in the most feasible manner, and notify the Fellowship through Box 4-5-9 when the "Bill W." book is no longer available through G.S.O. Sense of the meeting was taken that the deletion of the listing in the catalog should be handled by overprinting or other method as G.S.O. sees fit." If this doesn't alter your viewpoint then I surrender. Cheers Arthur IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5700. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book (and comments on Conferences) From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/12/2009 12:23:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII There are numerous errors in the posting about Conferences and advisory actions in Message #5682 from Jim H. (jhoffma6 at tampabay.rr.com). Comments on this are embedded in the original message: =================================== Hi Charlie, Each year Delegates are assigned to various committees within the Conference. Those committees are comprised of Delegates, Trustees and the GSO Staff. =================================== [Comments on the above]: There are Trustees Committees and there are Conference Committees. Trustees Committees meet four (4) times a year. Conference Committees meet one time each year at the Conference and consist of Delegates (only) with a member of the GSO staff acting as a non-voting committee Secretary. There is almost (but not quite) a one-for-one correspondence between the Trustees Committees and the Conference Committees each of which is explained in the Service Manual. =================================== When the 4th Edition was being prepared, it was decided to keep working copies down to as few people as possible. There were fears that if everyone reviewed the work in process some stories might get out and our Copyright might get compromised. Therefore the Literature Committee members were the ones who saw the final copy and sent a recommendation to approve it to the full Conference. The 2001 Conference approved and it was sent to publication. I was fortunate to know the Delegate from my Area who was on that literature Committee and I know that she took her responsibility very seriously and did the very best she could in the review and approval process. =================================== [Comments on the above]: The bit about copyrights being compromised if the stories got out is bogus. However, it was stated by AAWS/GSO (who also managed to lose the copyrights for the 1st/2nd edition Big Books as well as the Twelve Concepts in 2007). The 1999 Conference approved a Conference Literature Committee recommendation that: "Based on precedent in regard to previous editions of Alcoholics Anonymous, the A.A. history book, and Daily Reflections, any draft copy of the Fourth Edition of Alcoholics Anonymous be considered a work-in-progress, and as such, is confidential; the operating principle being that any story material brought forward to the Conference Literature Committee will be done on a "for-their-eyes-only" basis adhering to the principle of the "right of decision," and not brought forward for any other general distribution until publication." =================================== Once the book came out, the fellowship found some things they didn't like. In 2002, some members objected to the sentence in the Forward to the Fourth Edition that said "Fundamentally, though, the differnce between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format". Many of our members disagreed with this assesment. The Literature Committee recommended that the sentence be deleted. The 2002 Conference agreed and the Forward was changed. =================================== [Comments on the above]: It went well beyond "some members" objecting and raised quite a wide-spread negative reaction. The recommendation of the 2002 Conference Literature Committee stated "Although the committee acknowledged the importance of electronic meetings to some A.A. members, the sentence 'Fundamentally, though, the difference between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format' in the last paragraph of the Foreword to the Fourth Edition, be deleted in future printings of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous." =================================== One of the goals for the Fourth Edition was to keep it roughly the same size while introducing new stories to help new people relate. In the process, some existing stories were edited and punctuation was updated. As people read the book, some noticed the differences in their favorite stories. At the 2003 Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against restoring "The Housewife Who Drank At Home", Me, An Alcoholic?", "Another Chance", and "Freedom From Bondage" to the Third Edition version. =================================== [Comments on the above]: The 2003 Conference Literature Committee did not recommend against restoring the story changes. It "agreed to take no action." In Conference Committee protocol this means that the committee discussed the item but did not forward it to the Conference floor for a vote. =================================== There had been an earlier Conference Advisory Action saing that Dr. Bob's story should not be changed without written permission of 3/4 of all registered groups. The punctuation in "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" had been updated from the Third Edition version. Many of us thought that was within the spirit of that Advisory Action since it did not change the content and since that kind of editing had occurred in earlier editions. Some members submitted an Agenda item because they thought that even minor changes violated the previous Advisory Action and that no Conference had approved the specific changes. =================================== [Comments on the above]: There is no such Conference advisory action regarding the need for permission of 3/4 of the registered groups to change Dr Bob's Story (or the Big Book or any other book). The 1995 Conference Literature Committee recommended that: "The first 164 pages of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, the Preface, the Forewords, 'The Doctor's Opinion,' 'Doctor Bob's Nightmare' and the Appendices remain as is." A floor action was submitted to the 1996 Conference to: "Propose a Conference resolution that the 46th General Service Conference recommend to the Fellowship of A.A.s of the world that the first 164 pages of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, the Preface, the Forewards (sic), "The Doctor's Opinion," "Doctor Bob's Nightmare" and the Appendices be unchanged without approval of three quarters of groups of the world." It did not result in an advisory action. The 1997 Trustees Committee on Literature also reviewed the request and took no action. Note: the "3/4 of the registered groups permission" applies to the Steps, Traditions and Article 12 of the Permanent Conference Charter (i.e. the 6 "Warranties" which are also Concept 12) per advisory action of the 1976 Conference (which also approved the 3rd edition Big Book). =================================== At the 2004 Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against restoring the punctuation in "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" to that of the Third Edition. When this recommendation came to the Conference, A Floor Action was submitted and the full Conference overrode the Literature Committee. When our Delegate gave his Conference report he told us that he was prepared to vote against the change in accordance with the wishes of many of us in the area. He finally voted for the Floor Action because he saw that it was an issue that was dividing AA and while he had an obligation to our Area, he had a bigger obligation to AA as a whole. I was never so proud of someone who disagreed with me as I was that day. =================================== [Comments on the above]: The 2003 Conference Literature Committee recommended that the punctuation be restored but it failed to produce a Conference advisory. The 2004 Conference Literature Committee did not recommend against restoring the punctuation changes. It "agreed to take no action." Again, this means that the committee discussed the item but did not forward it to the Conference floor for a vote. It was also consistent with the action of the 2003 Conference. A floor action was submitted at the 2004 Conference that "The punctuation in 'Dr. Bob's Nightmare' in the Fourth Edition be restored as it appears in the Third Edition of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous." It was approved. The Conferences from 1995-2001, in my judgment, contributed greatly to the confusion on the punctuation changes in Dr Bob's Story. Each Conference felt compelled to offer its own advisory action on the portions of the Big Book to be left "as is." They were not consistent. The 1999 Conference passed an advisory action that "The Publications Department of the General Service Office maintain the following specific editorial responsibilities regarding the Fourth Edition Big Book Project: Editorial 'fine tuning' such as footnotes, punctuation, capitalization, spelling, updating, jacket materials, page numbers, etc. ..." The 2001 Conference passed an advisory action that "The Fourth Edition of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, be approved keeping in mind the 1995 Conference Advisory Action which reads, "The first 164 pages of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, the Preface, the Forewords, 'The Doctor's Opinion,''Doctor Bob's Nightmare' and the Appendices remain as is' and keeping in mind the 1999 Conference Action which reads, 'The Publications Department of the General Service Office maintain the following specific editorial responsibilities regarding the Fourth Edition Big Book Project: Editorial 'fine tuning' such as footnotes, punctuation, capitalization, spelling, updating, jacket materials, page numbers, etc. ..." This was the Conference that the made the 4th edition Big Book "Conference-approved" and again allowed for editorial "fine-tuning" regarding punctuation among other things. * * * * * * I personally find little to be proud of in the series of actions on the part of the Conferences from 1995-2004 on the matter of the 4th edition Big Book, although they meant well on the matter. In determining whether punctuation changes to Dr Bob's story were appropriate or not, seems to depend on which Conference advisory action you choose. The final one on the matter (from the 2001 Conference which approved the 4th edition) allowed for punctuation changes to be made. Perhaps only in AA would a matter so predominant and crucial as the placement of commas, periods and semi-colons, rise to the level of such supreme and sanctimonious consideration. However, it also makes for great theater (Rule # 62). While on the soap box, I'd further suggest that the two main contributing factors to the theater are: (1) AA members who view the Big Book as some sort of inviolable Scripture (i.e. people who scrutinize it punctuation mark by punctuation mark as if somehow it changes the meaning of the content), and (2) the all-too-human tendency of many Delegates to want to leave behind some legacy advisory action that highlights their 2-year term of office. Cheers Arthur S IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5701. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2009 10:08:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII SEVERAL POSSIBILITIES: From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com) Clyde B. of Bucks county Pennsylvania got sober in 1946 and has not had a drink since. He has 62 or 63 years. He volunteers daily at the Livengrin rehab. See more about him at http://freemancarpenter.com/About_Freeman.html Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila Pa USA. - - - - "Mary Latowski" (mplatowski at gmail.com) Paul Martin of Riverside Illinois Also from: "M.J. Johnson" I believe Paul M. of Chicago, IL just celebrated 61 years in September 2008. - - - - From: Tom White (tomwhite at cableone.net) Dear Shane: Yes, I know of an AA with more than 60 years of sobriety: I believe he sobered up in 1946, when he was in the first half of his 20's, and has stayed sober since. He is now 87. He is currently in hospital. I intend to call him and let him know of your inquiry. Tom W. Odessa, TX - - - - From: "Elisabeth" (dunnelisabeth at comcast.net) Yes, I know of one we have in Vegas. His name is Steve P. and he has 62 years and is from Cleveland, Ohio. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5702. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: profits from 24 Hour Book sent to New York AA From: firsthings1st . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2009 7:35:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Andrews wrote: > > Since the 24 Hour book (like the Bible!) > is not Conference-approved, how did sending > profits from its sale to GSO (between 1948 > and 1954, when it was being printed under > the sponsorship of the Daytona Beach AA > Group) square with Tradition Seven? > > Laurie A. > - - - - This was a group conscience decision by the Daytona Beach Group. However it was not sent directly as such. Rich W. donated the profits from the book to his home group. Months later, around Christmas time, a letter came to every AA group that GSO needed more donations. This letter from GSO was signed by Bill W. and was very convincing of that fact. The group decided they had way over their prudent reserve and sent most of what they had to GSO. This information is from correspondence from NY office,the orginal printer, Hazelden and treasurers reports from the Daytona Beach Group. These papers may be seen at the archives in the Daytona Beach Intergroup office. David W. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5703. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Change to foreword, 4th ed. of Big Book From: rick tompkins . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2009 8:10:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The change to the Foreword was made for the Seventh Printing, which followed in about eighteen months from the First Printing and a Floor Action / Advisory Action by the 2002 General Service Conference. Printings may have been anywhere between 100,000 for the First, through 10-20,000 for each following press run and it tool a while to put the Advisory Action into effect. Some of the bindings in the First Printing went haywire with stitched sections upside down, doubled sections, missing sections, etc. and a few reports made it to my Area meeting 'Open Mike Time.' At least one of the mis-printed books made it into my Area's Archives. The punctuation change to "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" was initially made by an unnamed GSO Staff (not the Literature Committee Desk but one of a few editorial staff personnel) and passed through the General Service Board with little fanfare or announcement, until the 2003 Conference voted to restore the original verbatim syntax. My dates are as correct as I can recall without digging further, but the Foreword 'flack' was a heated Floor discussion bringing an immediate change to the Foreword's focus. And, all in the spirit of Tradition 2 and a "loving God expressing Himself through our Group conscience" that was right (appropriate) and the voting worked perfectly. All were happy with the Foreword's textual change and I haven't heard anyone dispute the change since 2002 ... we are a self-correcting Fellowship, aren't we? When it comes down to carrying the message to other alcoholics, very little can replace a face-to-face meeting effectiveness. Just ask a newcomer! Rick, Illinois - - - - From: buckjohnson41686 Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 1:28 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Change to foreword, 4th ed. of Big Book Foreward to 4th edition was changed, page xxiv, line 10. First printing has "Fundamentally, though, the difference between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format." This was deleted, not sure which printing. - - - - Message #5670 from "Charlie Parker" > (charlieparker at prodigy.net) What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare and which foreword was changed?? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5704. . . . . . . . . . . . Themes for General Service Conference From: Arun Shelar . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/15/2009 4:57:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi, Can anybody tell me where I can get the list of Themes for General Service Conferences from the beginning till the present date? Arun IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5705. . . . . . . . . . . . Roland Hazard From: Administrator . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/14/2009 6:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I am a friend of Bill W. My profession has been printing for the past 53 years and just recently the local _Tularosa Basin Historical Society_ brought me a little project to print for them that AA History Buffs should be interested in. The Title is: "Roland Hazard and the La Luz Pottery" This is a small historical accounting of the time that Roland Hazard spent here in New Mexico. Hazard's brief time spent here in Otero County, NM was flamboyant and memorable by the many natives of the area at the time. I have heard that there is a publication coming out on the life and times of Roland Hazard and that there is a void of the years 1928-30 or so when he was here. World War I got going and Roland got drunk so Clarence Agnew, Roland's Manager put him on the train to New York and he never returned. This publication will be available through the Society soon. Ted Harrington IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5706. . . . . . . . . . . . The book called The God Angle From: chiphxsf . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/14/2009 6:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII My sponsor's sponsor came into a copy of "The God Angle" in his early sobriety. He had always favored it and thought it should be in circulation, again. I have made numerous attempts to contact Mrs. T. W. Robinson, Alexandria, VA who had the copyright to the volume. I have also attempted to contact the central and archive's offices and e-mail addresses of the Virginia area, to no avail, to find the copyright holder(s) of the book. If anyone has any information concerning this book, the whereabouts of any surving family of the author, Robbie Robinson, the author's date of birth and death or the original date of the book's publishing and when it was written, please contact me at: Mike Kane michaelvkane@hotmail.com (michaelvkane at hotmail.com) 480-287-0091 Thank you! mike IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5707. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/14/2009 6:41:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I had thought the original question was about AAs with 60 years who were 95 or older, which I cannot answer, so did not try. Clyde B. (June 20 1946) is around 88 (maybe 89); Chet H of Hummelstown PA, who regularly speaks at our History & Archives Gathering, has a DLD of April 4 1949: he is just about to turn 86. Chet got sober in Harrisburg PA and has been sober here sixty years, still living within ten miles or so of Harrisburg. Clyde B. was born in Canada, got sober in Boston, and came to Central PA in the early 1970s. He was at the Eastern PA General Service Convention/Assembly in the Poconos in November 2008, but I haven't been able to get him to the History & Archives Gathering yet. - - - - From: Bernard Wood (bern-donna at earthlink.net) Carl Demorey got sober in Muskegon, MI in December 1947. He went to the first convention in Cleveland in 1950. Met Bill W. there. His story is posted here. I believe he is about 90, living in assisted living here in Largo, Florida - - - - From: Forrest Jackson (forrestdalejackson at yahoo.com) My Grandsponser Easy E. from Montgomery, AL passed away last year 2 months shy of his 66th AA birthday. As they only make the medallions up to 60 years, I'd have to get one without the numerals on it and sand the center down, then take it in to an engraver to put the correct number in.I don't believe anyone had ever achieved this milestone (65 years). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5708. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: The book called The God Angle From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/15/2009 7:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII For more about the book (including a month's worth of readings) see this site: http://www.aabibliography.com/the_god_angle_alcoholics_book.htm Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, Pa. USA Hope to see you all at the NAW IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5709. . . . . . . . . . . . Stepping Stones 2009 Newsletter From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/17/2009 9:28:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII http://www.steppingstones.org/Stepping_Stones_Newsletter_2009.pdf IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5710. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Themes for General Service Conference From: Charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/16/2009 3:59:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII FROM CHARLES K. AND ARTHUR S. From: Charles Knapp (cpknapp at yahoo.com) Hello, In Area 9 a list of past themes for the Conference is given out each year and GSRs are ask to come up with ideas for the next years theme. Here is a list I found at Area 54 website. 1966 was the first year a theme was used. This list can also be gotten from your Delegate or GSO. 1966- Principles and Responsibility 1967- Sponsorship--The Hand of A.A. 1968- Unity Vital to AA Survival, Growth 1969- Group Conscience Guides AA 1970- Service- The Heart of AA 1971- Communication; Key to AA Growth 1972- Our Primary Purpose 1973- Responsibility-Our Expression of Gratitude 1974- Understanding and Cooperation-Inside and Outside AA 1975- Unity Through Love and Service 1976- Sponsorship-Our Privilege and Responsibility 1977- The AA Group-Where it Begins 1978- The Member and the Group-Recovery Through Service 1979- The Legacies; Our Heritage and My Responsibility 1980- Participation: The Key to Recovery 1981- AA Takes its Inventory 1982- The Traditions- Our Way of Unity 1983- Anonymity- Our Spiritual Foundation 1984- Gratitude-The Language of the Heart 1985- Golden Moments of Reflection 1986- AA's Future-Our Responsibility 1987- The Seventh Tradition-A Turning Point 1988- Singleness of Purpose-Key to Unity 1989- Anonymity-Living Our Traditions 1990- The Home Group-Our Responsibility and Link to AA's Future 1991- Sponsorship: Gratitude in Action 1992- The AA Message in a Changing World 1993- AA Takes its Inventory-The General Service Conference Structure 1994- Spirit of Sacrifice 1995- Pass It On - Our Three Legacies 1996- Preserving Our Fellowship-Our Challenge 1997- Spirituality-Our Foundation 1998- Our Twelfth Step Work 1999- Moving Forward; Unity Through Humility 2000- Trusting our Future to AA Principles 2001- Love and Service 2002- Sharing the Steps, Traditions and Concepts 2003- Living A.A.'s Principles Through Sponsorship 2004- Our Singleness of Purpose - the Cornerstone of AA 2005- Basics of Our Home Group- Recovery, Unity, Service 2006- Sponsorship, Service, and Self-Support In a Changing World 2007- A.A.'s 12th Step Responsibility - Are We Going to Any Length? 2008- Communication & Participation The key to Unity & Self-Support 2009- Our Commitment to Carry A.A.'s Message - Enthusiasm and Gratitude in Action Hope this helps Charles from California (soon to be Charles from Wisconsin) - - - - From: "Arthur S" (ArtSheehan at msn.com) Hi Arun Conferences did not collectively predefine specific themes prior to 1966. However, the 1951-65 Conferences did have dominant or keynote topics. ======================================== 1951-65 Inferred or later defined themes ======================================== 1951 - Not to Govern - But to Serve 1952 - It's a Question of Lives that May Be Lost if AA Does Not Survive 1953 - The Milestones Ahead 1954 - The Lost Commandment, the Dictionary and AA 1955 - The Paradoxes of AA 1956 - Petition, Appeal, Participation and Decision 1957 - The Need for Authority Equal to Responsibility 1958 - Promise and Progress 1959 - Confidence, Absence of Fear of Future 1960 - Need for Improved Internal and External Communications 1961 - Determination to Work and Grow Together, and With Others 1962 - Our Primary Purpose and Deep Devotion to the Concept of Unity 1963 - Emphasis was on Function rather than Structure 1964 - Practice These Principles 1965 - Responsibility to Those We Serve ================================================= 1966 - First Conference to have a predefined theme ================================================== 1966 - Principles and Responsibility 1967 - Sponsorship - The Hand of AA 1968 - Unity Vital to AA Survival, Growth 1969 - Group Conscience Guides AA 1970 - Service - The Heart of AA 1971 - Communication: Key to AA Growth 1972 - Our Primary Purpose 1973 - Responsibility - Our Expression of Gratitude 1974 - Understanding and Cooperation - Inside and Outside AA 1975 - Unity Through Love and Service 1976 - Sponsorship - Our Privilege and Responsibility 1977 - The AA Group - Where it Begins 1978 - The Member and the Group - Recovery Through Service 1979 - The Legacies: Our Heritage and Responsibility 1980 - Participation: The Key to Recovery 1981 - AA Takes Its Inventory 1982 - The Traditions - Our Way of Unity 1983 - Anonymity - Our Spiritual Foundation 1984 - Gratitude - The Language of the Heart 1985 - Golden Moments of Reflection 1986 - AA's Future - Our Responsibility 1987 - The Seventh Tradition - A Turning Point 1988 - Singleness of Purpose - Key to Unity 1989 - Anonymity - Living Our Traditions 1990 - The Home Group - Our Responsibility and Link to AA's Future 1991 - Sponsorship: Gratitude in Action 1992 - The AA Message in a Changing World 1993 - AA Takes Its Inventory - The General Service Conference Structure 1994 - Spirit of Sacrifice 1995 - Pass It On - Our Three Legacies 1996 - Preserving Our Fellowship - Our Challenge 1997 - Spirituality - Our Foundation 1998 - Our Twelfth Step Work 1999 - Moving Forward: Unity Through Humility 2000 - Trusting Our Future to AA Principles 2001 - Love and Service 2002 - Sharing the Steps, Traditions and Concepts 2003 - Living AA's Principles Through Sponsorship 2004 - Our Singleness of Purpose - the Cornerstone of AA 2005 - Basics of Our Home Group - Recovery, Unity and Service 2006 - Sponsorship, Service and Self-Support in a Changing World 2007 - Our 12th Step Responsibility - Are We going to Any Length? 2008 - Communication and Participation - the Key to Unity and Self-Support 2009 - Our Commitment to Carry AA's Message - Enthusiasm and Gratitude in Action Cheers Arthur IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5711. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Roland Hazard / Rowland Hazard From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/15/2009 7:07:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII His name is spelled "Rowland" - Cheers - Arthur IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5712. . . . . . . . . . . . The Little Red Book From: dave_landuyt . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/15/2009 6:01:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A previous post by Tommy H. states "There were a number of changes made to the LRB in the first half-dozen printings from 1946-1950". Could Tommy, or anyone with the knowledge of these changes, post some examples? If anyone has website(s) that show or explain these changes, that would also be appreciated. Thanks to one and all Dave L. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5713. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: The Little Red Book From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/18/2009 3:25:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The http://hindsfoot.org/ed02.html website gives some examples of changes made to The Little Red Book between the 1946 edition and the 1949 edition. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5714. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Silkworth Birthday Celebration From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/17/2009 12:17:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII You are cordially invited to the Sixth Annual Dr. Silkworth Birthday Celebration! Saturday, July 18, 2009 at 3:00PM (no rain date this year). At his gravesite in Glenwood Cemetery, Route 71 (Monmouth Rd.), West Long Branch, New Jersey. Speakers: Barbara Silkworth (a family member) and Bill S. (currently writing a book about the first edition AA Big Book). PLEASE BE SURE TO BRING A LAWN CHAIR OR SOMETHING TO SIT ON. If you have any questions please call Barefoot Bill at 201-232-8749 (cell). Directions: Take the Garden State Parkway (north or south) to Exit 105 (Route 36), continue on Route 36 approximately 3 miles through 5 traffic lights (passing Monmouth Mall, two more shopping plazas, and several automobile dealerships). Watch for green road signs stating “Route 71 South, West Long Branch and Asbury Park” (this is just before the sixth light). Take this turnoff to the right, past Carriage Square and bear right onto Route 71 (Monmouth Road). Glenwood Cemetery appears very quickly on the left (the entrance is marked by two stone pillars and the name). Once inside the cemetery, bear left, go up the hill and make the first right (a hard right). The gravesite is near the first tree on the right. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5715. . . . . . . . . . . . High Road to Happiness Waterloo Iowa pamphlet From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/17/2009 12:10:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII High Road to Happiness Waterloo Iowa pamphlet Does anyone have info on the how and why's about this pamphlet being written? LD Pierce (eztone at hotmail.com) http://aabibliography.com/ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5716. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Themes for General Service Conference From: Kevin Short . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/18/2009 7:26:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The theme for the 2010 General Service Conference will be: "Practicing A.A.'s Principles -- the Pathway to Unity." Kevin IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5717. . . . . . . . . . . . Early AA meeting formats From: victoria callaway . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/21/2009 11:14:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII At our BB study tonite I was asked if I knew anything about early AA meeting formats and could I find out any info about them. Anyone have any info on this? thanks God bless vicki IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5718. . . . . . . . . . . . Wednesday removed from 4th ed. He Sold Himself Short From: garylock7008 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/22/2009 10:43:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Speaking of changes made in the 4th edition of the Big Book - I am wondering why they took the word "Wednesday" out of Earl T's story ("He Sold Himself Short," page 262/263) in the 4th Edition, in all the printings? Back in the past this was the only day [afternoon] a doctor in the town I grew up in - in Nova Scotia - ever took off. To me it tells of the sacrifice and dedication Dr. Bob and his family had made for the fellowship! With the stroke of a keyboard - a part of history is gone. Gary up in Canada eh! IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5719. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Silkworth''s own religious beliefs From: katiebartlett79 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/20/2009 2:34:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi, Katie from Barking Big Book study, The Way Out. Me and my group are wondering if Dr. Silkworth was himself a religious person. Many thanks, Katie IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5721. . . . . . . . . . . . Four essays on spirituality From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/22/2009 5:12:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Glenn C., four essays on spirituality http://hindsfoot.org/spiritu.html TWO ESSAYS on Rudolf Otto and his famous book "The Idea of the Holy." The central emphasis in A.A. spirituality is on learning to develop our God-consciousness and our awareness of the presence of God. The most important spokesman for this concept in early twentieth-century thought was the German philosopher and theologian Rudolf Otto (1869-1937). We need to know a little about Otto's book to fully understand what early AA people meant by this term "God-consciousness." "Learning to See the Sacred Dimension of Reality. Rudolf Otto and the Idea of the Holy, Part 1: The holy as one of the categories of the human understanding." The human experience of the holy and the sacred, the story of Bill Wilson, the sense of the divine presence, the holy as the experience of the "numinous," the use of metaphors, analogies, and ideograms to talk about this experience. http://hindsfoot.org/g04sacr.pdf "The Seven Faces of the Experience of the Divine Reality. Rudolf Otto and the Idea of the Holy, Part 2: The experience of the sacred as the source of true serenity and the healing of the spirit." (1) Tremendum: the feeling of awe and dread, (2) Majestas: the call to total surrender, (3) Energeia: power, energy, love and Eros, (4) Alienum: the divine abyss lying behind the surface illusion of understandability, (5) Fascinans: salvation itself as living in the continual presence of the sacred, (6) Augustus: the power which condemns us but then washes us clean, (7) Illuminatio: inspiring us to see and be gripped by the true goal of the spiritual life. http://hindsfoot.org/g05myst.pdf ______________________________ In the 1930's, Rudolf Otto* and Karl Barth** were considered to be the two greatest theolo- gians in the western world. In Otto's formative work, "The Idea of the Holy," he said that the heart of all of the world's religions lay in the experience of what he called the holy or the sacred, which played a central role even in religions which had no concept of God (like nontheistic Buddhism and the Native American spirituality of tribes like the Navajos and Potawatomis).*** When Bill was talking with Ebby in his kitchen, he suddenly remembered his encounter with the experience of the sacred (as Otto's book called it) at Winchester Cathedral, and he remembered how his grandfather had talked about experiencing the same mysterium tremendum while gazing at the starry heavens in the middle of the night. Shortly afterwards, Bill Wilson checked himself into Towns Hospital on Central Park West in New York City and had a second spiritual experience while in the hospital, a vision of light (an Illuminatio as we have called it in this discussion of Otto's work), where God gave Bill W. his mission. *Rudolf Otto was a German Lutheran Pietist like Frank Buchman (the founder of the Oxford Group). **Karl Barth was a Swiss Reformed theolo- gian (Reinhold Niebuhr, the author of the Serenity Prayer, was his most famous American representative). ***Otto's work is especially important because he showed how even atheists (or better put "nontheists") like Zen Buddhists and the members of many Native American religions can still have a rich and effective spirituality which can convey the sacred power which heals alcoholism and addiction -- but only if these men and women learn how to experience the overwhelming power of the Wholly Other which Otto called the holy or the sacred dimension of reality. ______________________________ TWO ADDITIONAL ESSAYS: "The Ground of Being: God and the Big Bang." Our universe exploded into being in the Big Bang, 13.7 billion years ago. God (the ground of being) is the infinite and unknowable Mystery out of which the Big Bang occurred. Eighteenth and nineteenth century attacks on the infallibility of the Bible and the rise of modern atheism in the 1840's. Atheism as control neurosis and control fantasy. How twentieth century science destroyed the roots of modern atheism. The ground of being as the basis of real spirituality. http://hindsfoot.org/g06grnd.pdf "Mount Sinai and the Burning Bush: The Cloud of Unknowing, the Altar to the Unknown God, and the Dark Night of the Soul." In order to find a God of our understanding, we first have to let go of all our old misconceptions about God, the universe, and ourselves, and make the ascent up Mount Sinai, following Moses into the Cloud of Unknowing. As we continue to climb further and further into the doubt and anguish of the Dark Night of the Soul, we use the twelve steps to guide us into a radical reframing of all the presuppositions of our lives. Disoriented within the infinite and all-encompassing Mystery, we discover the God of the empty altar -- the Altar to the Unknown God, the Agnosto Theo (Acts 17:23-28) -- and hear the voice from the Burning Bush giving us only the bare words, "I am what I am" -- the divine Person whose grace is his love offered to ALL the needy and suffering, without condition. http://hindsfoot.org/g02sinai.pdf IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5722. . . . . . . . . . . . Keeping the silkworth.net site online From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/22/2009 5:57:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Messages 5630, 5635, and 5636 ("Is the silkworth.net site down?") made us all aware of the problem which Jim Meyers has had keeping the website up and on line, after his being on disability and unable to work for the past ten months. Some of the members of our AAHistoryLovers group have encouraged Jim to set up a Pay Pal account for silkworthdotnet, where those of us who wish to, could do the equivalent of passing the hat to help the website out. I know that this goes against our normal policies in the AAHistoryLovers, but I think that for the good of the community of AA historians around the world, we very much need to post this note on the AAHistoryLovers, explaining what has now been done to keep silkworthdotnet going. The new Silkworth.net Pay Pal account is at: http://jimm.freevar.com/ Jim Myers says there: Hello my fellow AAHistoryLovers! First let me express my gratitude to all of you who emailed me in support of silkworth.net. As most of you know, I have been unable to work for over 10 months due to disability reasons. It's been a rough year for me. But I am confident that the future will be much brighter for me than the present. My name is Jim Myers, the creator and owner of silkworth.net. A little history for you. It was the year 2000 and I was introduced to computers by my mother. She was on her way to Canada and she showed me how to use ICQ instant messaging computer program to communicate with each other while she was in Canada -- one of the largest communications networks on the internet. It was probably about 6 months later, I became bored with ICQ and decided I was going to teach myself how to build websites. It was rough at first and my first attempt was building a site about UFO's. That didn't last long. Then while searching the internet about AA related stuff, I ran accross Mitchell K's website. I became very interested in AA history right then and set out to build a website about AA stuff. I had to study the code of many websites and learned at a rapid rate. Oh, before I forget, I took the suggestion of those who said open a Pay Pal account so anyone who wishes to help support silkworth.net can. http://jimm.freevar.com/ Just click on the URL above and you will be taken to the Pay Pal page where you can help get silkworth.net back online and keep it online. OK, where was I? At first, silkworth.net took on many forms -- completely different than it is today. Then I started learning other things about building websites. For instance, whether silkworth.net was going to look the same in the four main browsers, and coming to realize that most people don't want to hear music on the web pages. So I started making changes to the site for simplicity reasons till silkworth.net evolved to where it is today. I never intended silkworth.net to grow as large as it is today (almost 2 gigabytes). I also never expected the site to become so busy (over a million hits per month). I got a email one day not to long ago from doteasy.com where silkworth.net is hosted. They told me I had to control the bandwidth, which is unlimited, and a few other things. They said my site was the cause of all their servers shutting down. Well, I think I have said enough for now. Again, I would just like to say thank you and I am very grateful to you all for your help. Yours in Service Ever Grateful Jim Myers P.S. I believe I am going to upload all of silkworth.net to a free web host just in case silkworth.net goes off line again, which God forbid. Again, I extend my gratitude to all of you who wish to help get silkworth.net back online. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5723. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Bob and Masonry From: Woodstock . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/22/2009 11:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I believe that I read somewhere that both Dr. Bob and Clarence Snyder were fraternal members of the Free and Accepted Masons fraternity, though not active during their AA membership. I think I read about their membership from an interview or story written about Clarence, but I am not sure. Does anyone have a source or knowledge of Dr. Bob's Masonic membership? Jim S. Pensacola, FL IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5724. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Early AA meeting formats From: S Sommers . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/25/2009 8:41:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have heard a recording of a lead by Bill Dotson, AA number 3, from the first anniversary of a group - possibly Canton, Ohio's first birthday celebration. I believe it's the only extant lead of Bill D's we have. In his story he tells of early meetings when the group didn't know who was going to lead the meeting until the meeting itself. After five minutes of quiet time, the group members would vote on who would lead the meeting. My thought is that early formats of meetings might be recalled in some of the old leads, but the memory of even the sober worthies may not be historical fact. It's a starting point for knowing about the structure of early meetings. It would be interesting to know what was happening in the "flying blind" period before the book Alcoholics Anonymous was written. Thanks for everything. Sam Sommers Elkhart, Indiana IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5725. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Bob and Masonry From: buck johnson . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/23/2009 10:01:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Mitchell Klein, "How It Worked," Chapter 9 http://www.aabbsg.org/chs/chs09.htm "Clarence became involved with the Masons in Florida. Like Dr. Bob, Clarence was a 32° Mason." - - - - "Bruce C." (brucecl2002 at yahoo.com) Also refers us to Mitchell K.'s "How It Worked" - - - - From: jdf10487@yahoo.com (jdf10487 at yahoo.com) The following article claims that Dr. Bob was a Mason. Sincerely, Jim F. http://www.worldviewtimes.com/article.php/articleid-3537 "Dr. Bob was a Mason. Suspended in 1934, he gained reinstatement after being sober for some years." The endnote gives Cedric L. Smith, PGM, Grand Secretary of Masons in Vermont, as the source of this information. - - - - Note from the moderator: I would suggest that some member of our group who is a Mason check the Vermont Masonic records to see if everything in that last statement (especially the part about Dr. Bob being "suspended" and all that) is in fact correct, before anybody repeats all that information. - - - - More importantly though, if Dr. Bob was a good Mason, then he believed that all you had to do to be approved in God's eyes was to be an ethical monotheist. Although most American Masons were Protestants, Jews were also allowed to join. So Masons beleived in one God, the Great Architect who had designed and created this universe, and in living a life of honesty and the highest moral principles, based on God's Moral Law. But you did NOT have to believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ to be a Mason, nor was anyone required to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. A number of American presidents were Masons: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Knox Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Abram Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Warren Gamaliel Harding, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry S Truman, Gerald R. Ford, Jr., and Lyndon Baines Johnson. The U.S. Declaration of Independence reflected this same Deist and Masonic conception of God and the universal moral law. If we observe "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God," it is a self-evident truth, the declaration proclaimed, "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." http://www.givemeliberty.org/DOCS/DECLARATION.HTM This is the core of AA's moral code: Treat all other men and women with respect as human beings equal in importance (in God's eyes) to ourselves. Respect other people's rights at all times. Show tolerance to all, and give everyone else the Liberty to live their own lives on their own principles -- I have NO RIGHT to act like a tyrant and try to impose my will and my beliefs on anyone else. When I am in bitter conflict with other people, I must ask myself, which do I want? to be right or to be happy? Sane people (most of the time) choose "the pursuit of Happiness" in those situations as their goal. Dr. Bob was 55 years old when he met Bill W. and got sober. It doesn't matter what was preached by some religious youth group that Dr. Bob had belonged 40 or 50 years earlier. How many of us still believe when we are 55 what we believed when we were 5 or 10 years old? If Dr. Bob had joined the Masons, then this means that AS AN ADULT he had come to accept the principle that all God required of us human beings was that we recognize Him as the creator (the Great Architect of the universe) and as the Author of a universal moral law which intelligent people could work out for themselves, using their own conscience and their own common sense, without having to appeal to any church doctrines or dogmas or holy books. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5726. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Early AA meeting formats From: Matt Dingle . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/25/2009 2:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Early AA meeting formats: see Message #5300 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5300 "How early AA meetings were held in Akron and Cleveland." Matt D. - - - - Also see Message #5301 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5301 and also see numerous passages in "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers." There was considerable flux (and considerable variety) in the way AA meetings were conducted during the early period. GFC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5727. . . . . . . . . . . . 27th Annual Manitoba Conference, Winnipeg, 1971 From: mrpetesplace . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/23/2009 2:36:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have a plaque with pictures of Bill and Bob on it, that comes from the 27th Annual Manitoba Conference in Winnipeg in 1971. For Bill it has 1895 - 1971 so I know it was made sometime later that year after Bill passed (he died on 24 January at the beginning of 1971). I have a picture of it at http://www.aastuff.com/plaque I know it is about 38 years old but am curious to know more about when the conference was held or any information on it. Also, any information on this plaque would be great. Were there more of them made? I'm thinking it was a centerpiece for the podium at conference or perhaps might have been given to quest speakers (in which case, more than one would have been made). Thank you in advance for help. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5728. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Early AA meeting formats From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/25/2009 2:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII What happened during the flying blind period was Bill and Bob had lots and lots of failed attempts at trying to get and keep alcoholics sober. Bill D. was AA number 3. There have always been small number of alcoholics who have gotten sober through religious conversion and even the psycho- logical approach (see Richard Peabody's "The Common Sense of Drinking). The Washintonians were perhaps the first to show that sobriety could be mass produced, followed later by Alcoholics Anonymous, but there may have been other large movements throughout the course of history that have arisen and faded away. Sincerely, Jim F. - - - - From: S Sommers Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Early AA meeting formats To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 25, 2009, 5:41 AM I have heard a recording of a lead by Bill Dotson, AA number 3, from the first anniversary of a group - possibly Canton, Ohio's first birthday celebration. I believe it's the only extant lead of Bill D's we have. In his story he tells of early meetings when the group didn't know who was going to lead the meeting until the meeting itself. After five minutes of quiet time, the group members would vote on who would lead the meeting. My thought is that early formats of meetings might be recalled in some of the old leads, but the memory of even the sober worthies may not be historical fact. It's a starting point for knowing about the structure of early meetings. It would be interesting to know what was happening in the "flying blind" period before the book Alcoholics Anonymous was written. Thanks for everything. Sam Sommers Elkhart, Indiana IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5729. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Four essays on spirituality From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/23/2009 4:43:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII DONALD REEVES There is a powerful description of "deflation at depth" in Donald Reeves' autobiograpy.* Reeves, now a retired Anglican priest, told how in the 1950s he experienced his own rock bottom, viz: "Over the days I received what I can only describe as a gift, not mediated by anyone or anything. The gift came with the words, 'Do not fear; you will be all right.' PAUL TILLICH Years later in a sermon by Paul Tillich, in "The Shaking of the Foundations", I recognised what I experienced in that Beirut church: 'We cannot transform our lives, unless we allow them to be transformed by a stroke of grace. It happens; or it does not happen ... Grace strikes us when we are in great pain and restlessness. It strikes us when we walk through the dark valley of a meaningless and empty life ... It strikes us when the longed-for perfection of life does not appear, when the old compulsions reign within us as they have for decades, when despair destroys all joy and courage. Sometimes at that moment a wave of light breaks into our darkness, and it is as though a voice were saying, 'You are accepted, you are accepted, accepted by that which is greater than you, and the name of which you do not know. Do not ask for the name now; perhaps you will find it later. Do not try to do anything now; perhaps later you will do much. Do not seek for anything; do not perform anything; do not intend anything. Simply accept the fact that you are accepted!' If that happens to us, we experience grace. After such an experience we may not be better than before, and we may not believe more than before. But everything is transformed.' Theologians and preachers sometimes say far too much. I was not transformed there and then, but I recognised enough in Tillich's words which resonated with my own life. Atheists irritated by this 'emotional waffle' say: 'You were just exhausted and wanted a break'.' To which I respond: 'You are right, but why reduce everything to just? Can't you understand the depth and width of what I am describing?' They say: 'Why can't we have this experience, then?' And I respond: 'I do not know'. At which point the conversation falters." REEVES ON A.A. MEETINGS In an earlier book Reeves described an AA meeting as "an arena of hope". ____________________________ *The memoirs of a 'very dangerous man'; Donald Reeves; Continuum; 2009. ("A very dangerous man" is how Margaret Thatcher described Reeves when she was UK prime minister and he priest at St James's church, Piccadily, London!) - - - - Original message from: glennccc@sbcglobal.net Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 14:12:55 -0700 Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Four essays on spirituality "Mount Sinai and the Burning Bush: The Cloud of Unknowing, the Altar to the Unknown God, and the Dark Night of the Soul." In order to find a God of our understanding, we first have to let go of all our old misconceptions about God, the universe, and ourselves, and make the ascent up Mount Sinai, following Moses into the Cloud of Unknowing. As we continue to climb further and further into the doubt and anguish of the Dark Night of the Soul, we use the twelve steps to guide us into a radical reframing of all the presuppositions of our lives. Disoriented within the infinite and all-encompassing Mystery, we discover the God of the empty altar -- the Altar to the Unknown God, the Agnosto Theo (Acts 17:23-28) -- and hear the voice from the Burning Bush giving us only the bare words, "I am what I am" -- the divine Person whose grace is his love offered to ALL the needy and suffering, without condition. http://hindsfoot.org/g02sinai.pdf - - - - Also see AA historian Richard M. Dubiel, "Paul Tillich: Key Philosophical Theologian of the Mid-Twentieth Century" http://hindsfoot.org/dubtill.html Also see two chapters by Glenn Chesnut on Paul Tillich (and Albert Einstein) at http://hindsfoot.org/pers2.pdf Chapter 10 (pp. 56 ff.) "Paul Tillich: An Impersonal Ground of Being" Chapter 11 (pp. 69 ff.) "Tillich and Einstein" IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5730. . . . . . . . . . . . silkworth.net is back! From: silkworthdotnet . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/25/2009 5:13:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII silkworth.net is back! I just want to say thank you for all of your support and to those individuals who helped make this possible. For those who helped make this happen, I will be contacting you according to how you entered your contact information. This has been an overwhelming experience for me! Yours in service, Ever grateful, Jim Myers IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5731. . . . . . . . . . . . The silkworth.net site plus links to other AA history sites, please From: mrpetesplace . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/23/2009 2:39:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have added some information and links to http://aastuff.com/ for the effort to keep silkworth.net online and running. Silkworth.net is probably the best of all the history sites. But remember there are 20 sites at this time linked with my search engine, and I am always looking to add more with AA history, even if it is just your local history. So please send me any references to local AA history sites which I can post links to, that is what I need most. peter@aastuff.com (peter at aastuff.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5732. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Bob was a Mason From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/26/2009 2:04:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com) Confirmation from Cedric Smith: I have a Robert H. Smith who was a member of our Passumpsic Lodge No. 27 located in St. Johnsbury, Vermont. He joined the Masons Lodge on February 12, 1903 and died on November 16, 1950. I have a William B. Wilson who was a member of our Franklin Lodge No. 4 located in St. Albans, Vermont. He joined the Masons Lodge on December 4, 1849 and was dropped in 1860. I hope this help in you with your research. Cedric Smith - - - - From the moderator: This first figure must have been Dr. Bob = Robert Holbrook Smith (August 8, 1879 - November 16, 1950), co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous. Dr. Bob graduated from Dartmouth College in 1902, and seems to have joined the Masons in the following year. - - - - It is not clear who the other person was. It is the wrong middle initial and completely wrong dates to be AA's Bill Wilson: Bill W. = William Griffith Wilson (November 26, 1895 - January 24, 1971), co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous. Could it have been one of his relatives? Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) - - - - See original Message #5725, which cites Cedric L. Smith, PGM, Grand Secretary of Masons in Vermont, as the source of the information that Dr. Bob was a Mason: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5725 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5733. . . . . . . . . . . . The forgotten steps From: nuevenueve@ymail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/26/2009 7:17:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Group: Historically speaking, when, where, and why did Steps 6 & 7 come to be called "The Forgotten Steps"? Regards Hugo IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5734. . . . . . . . . . . . How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? From: tomvlll . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/28/2009 8:36:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did they have segregated meetings? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5735. . . . . . . . . . . . Origins of the Circle and Triangle: Masonic influence? From: kodom2545 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/27/2009 4:58:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I was watching a documentary on the Masons in the founding of our nation and I noticed on one of the Masonic garments of our founding fathers there was the circle and triangle that AA has used. I am well aware that the symbol has been around a very long time before we decided to use it, but I was wondering what previous cultures, groups, or entities used/use it? Also, Who selected it as an AA symbol? God Bless, Kyle IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5736. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: The forgotten steps From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/27/2009 5:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII At 18:17 5/26/2009, Hugo wrote: >Hi Group: > >Historically speaking, when, where, and why >did Steps 6 & 7 come to be called "The Forgotten >Steps"? Post #2559 by Arthur S. on July 26, 2005 starts: The June 1952 Grapevine had an article titled "The Forgotten Steps." However, it focuses on Steps 8 and 9 as opposed to 6 and 7. Prior to the Big Book, the recovery program consisted of 6 Steps passed on to new members by word of mouth. 3 differing versions of the 6 Steps appear in AA literature: "The Language of the Heart" (pg 200) "AA Comes of Age" (pg 160) "Pass It On" (pg 190) and Big Book Pioneer story "He Sold Himself Short" (pg 263 - 4th ed) The variations in wording help illustrate the difficulties that can occur when something is passed on solely by word-of-mouth. It may be helpful to read the entire post. Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5737. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: The forgotten steps From: tomper87 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/28/2009 11:27:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The Twelve Steps Of Alcoholics Anonymous: Interpreted By The Hazelden Foundation (Paperback) 1993 STEPS SIX AND SEVEN: The Forgotten Steps This is one such source but may not be the original. Tom P. - - - - From the moderator: This book or pamphlet seems like it may have been written by someone named James Brandon. If you Google for "forgotten steps," there are other references in things written about AA, where the phrase seems to regularly refer to Steps Six and Seven. They tend to be "forgotten," these pieces usually state, because people jump from doing their fourth and fifth steps to doing their eighth and ninths steps too quickly, and then cannot understand why they still feel so much mental turmoil and inner unhappiness. And they tend be "forgotten," it is frequently stated, because people forget to call on God for help -- or are too scared of God to turn to Him for help. So we help people deal with Steps Six and Seven by encouraging them to trust God and not be afraid of God, and recognize that God is here to help us, without scolding or condemnation, if we just ask for His help. (We don't help people in the slightest if all we do is scold them, and berate them, and accuse them of worshiping light bulbs and door knobs. People aren't stupid. But alcoholics DO feel a whole lot of fear and guilt over the things they have done.) That's in the pieces I looked at, but there may be a lot more written on this topic. Glenn C., Moderator P.S. There is a good discussion of one way of working the sixth and seventh steps, based on Father Ralph Pfau, in "The Right Side of the Page" by John Barleycorn http://hindsfoot.org/barright.html John makes these "Virtue Chips" out of maple and walnut and other fine woods in his workshop in Fort Wayne, Indiana. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5738. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? From: Al Welch . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/29/2009 2:21:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII According to page 129 of the book " Thank You For Sharing" as late as August 1967 in places like Pass Christian, Mississippi, the meetings were still segregated. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5739. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/29/2009 2:47:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Most briefly: When asked about that, Bill W. said that while AAs should never exclude anyone who honestly wanted to stop drinking from their meetings, "we are not out to change the world," and so should abide by the customs of the place. And so if the place where meetings were held was segregated, AAs should respect that. I believe that this was about the time in the 1940s that President Truman was desegregating the armed forces, and so before the peak of the mid-1950s movement that led to the Supreme Court's "Brown decision." ernie kurtz - - - - On May 28, 2009, at 8:36 AM, tomvlll wrote: > > > How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the > rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did > they have segregated meetings? > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5740. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Origins of the Circle and Triangle: Masonic influence? From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/29/2009 4:35:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII At 15:58 5/27/2009, kodom2545 wrote: ======================================== >I was watching a documentary on the Masons in the founding of our >nation and I noticed on one of the Masonic garments of our founding >fathers there was the circle and triangle that AA has used. >I am well aware that the symbol has been around a very long time >before we decided to use it, but I was wondering what previous >cultures, groups, or entities used/use it? ======================================== I know Centenary-South United Church of Canada in Rock Island, Quebec, has it on its facade and I have always associated it with that denomination. However, their web site has nothing that I could find on it. ======================================== >Also, Who selected it as an AA symbol? ======================================== From As Bill Sees It p. 307, referring to A.A. Comes of Age p . 139: "Circle and Triangle "Above us, at the International Convention at St. Louis in 1955, floated a banner on which was inscribed the then new symbol for A.A., a circle enclosing a triangle. The circle stands for the whole world of A.A., the triangle stands for A.A.'s Three Legacies: Recovery, Unity, and Service. "It is perhaps no accident that priests and seers of antiquity regarded this symbol as a means of warding off spirits of evil." Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5741. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Origins of the Circle and Triangle From: David . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/30/2009 12:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In aikido, a "martial art" strongly influenced by principles of the Oomoto religion, this circle and triangle symbol is used. "These concepts address the distance, contact, connection, blending, balance breaking, lines of attacks and centerlines, timing, and the lingering spirit connection that leaves a lasting impression after the conflict is successfully and peacefully concluded." Advanced Aikido (Dang & Seiser, 2006.) - - - - In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hickcox wrote: From As Bill Sees It p. 307, referring to A.A. Comes of Age p . 139: "Above us, at the International Convention at St. Louis in 1955, floated a banner on which was inscribed the then new symbol for A.A., a circle enclosing a triangle .... It is perhaps no accident that priests and seers of antiquity regarded this symbol as a means of warding off spirits of evil." Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5742. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? From: David . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/30/2009 12:35:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII There is an excellent set of articles at http://hindsfoot.org/nblack1.html on the Hindsfoot Foundation website, edited/compiled by Glenn C. - - - - Note from the moderator: this was not about "the South" as opposed to "the North." These articles are about the northern U.S. area running from Chicago through Gary to South Bend, and show a pattern of hostility towards black people trying to join AA, as late as 1948 to 1950. Only three or four of the house meetings in South Bend (a totally northern U.S. city) would allow black people to attend AA meetings at all, and they made them sit in the kitchen, instead of in the living room, where the AA meeting was being conducted, and made them drink their coffee out of cups with cracks or chips in them (there are multiple attestations of that latter fact coming from black oldtimers who had come in during that period). They could listen to the white people speak, but were not allowed to speak themselves. Black AA members had to stand at the back of the room at the weekly open speaker meeting, and if they attempted to go up afterwards and shake the speaker's hand, the speaker would turn away and refuse to shake hands with them. These articles describe the events in which some heroic black people stood their ground, and insisted on obtaining entry into the AA program. And their story culminated in a triumphant endings, as black people like Bill Hoover, Brownie, and Goshen Bill became some of the most important -- and most loved and respected -- AA leaders during the 1970's and 80's in South Bend and the surrounding Indiana area. (It shoud also be noted that the white churches were still blocking black people from attending -- most black people, most of the time, in the North as well as in the South -- as late as the 1960's and later, so AA opened its doors to black members twenty years or more before most of the churches in the U.S.) --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "tomvlll" wrote: > > How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the > rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did > they have segregated meetings? > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5743. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal w... From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/30/2009 3:23:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII It seems that Bill W did try to integrate AA from the very beginning, but he had objections from members from the start. Bill kept his ties to African Americans and gradually introduced them to the larger AA community. Some of our people with an accurate memory for dates, can give a date for Jim S. (Jim's Story in the Big Book) sobriety. It seems to be about time of the war years, But AA writing suggests Bill W had worked with alcoholics who happened to be African Americans or who otherwise did not seem to fit the mold of being middle class, white, heterosexual, etc., prior to World War II. Even in DC at that early date Jim's story shows how the local AA's helped him and accepted him and helped him to start a group that I think is still going. There is a question as to Bill W or Dr Bob getting the first African American into an AA group in the early days. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5744. . . . . . . . . . . . The six steps From: Dean at ComPlanners . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/30/2009 4:48:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII AAHistoryLoversTom Hickcox, quoting Post #2559 by Arthur S. from July 26, 2005, wrote: " ... Prior to the Big Book, the recovery program consisted of 6 Steps passed on to new members by word of mouth. 3 differing versions of the 6 Steps appear in AA literature: 'The Language of the Heart' (pg 200), 'AA Comes of Age' (pg 160), 'Pass It On' (pg 190), and Big Book Pioneer story 'He Sold Himself Short' (pg 263 - 4th ed). The variations in wording help illustrate the difficulties that can occur when something is passed on solely by word-of-mouth." [Text of these six-step summaries also in http://hindsfoot.org/steps6.html ] Another variation in wording appears on page 12 of "Three talks to Medical Societies by Bill W., co-founder of AA" (P-6, 7/03). There, Bill lists the six "principles" Ebby "applied ... to himself in 1934." Note too that in the text of the second talk (same pamphlet), Bill reduces the 12 Steps to 5 steps/concepts/principles/whatever (see page 29): "Boiled down, these Steps mean, simply: a. Admission of alcoholism; b. Personality analysis and catharsis; c. Adjustment of personal relations; d. Dependence upon some Higher Power; e. Working with other alcoholics" (Also, the version of the 6 Steps in my "Pass It On" appears on page 197 rather than on page 190.) Dean IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5745. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Origins of the Circle and Triangle From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/31/2009 3:50:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A Catholic priest told me that in Christian iconography the circle and triangle stand for the unbroken circle of eternity and the Holy Trinity. It appears in the architecture, stained glass and artefacts of churches, cathedrals etc. I first saw it in a window at the Anglican parish church at Nympsfield, Gloucestershire, England, while attending a service during a retreat for AA and Al-Anon members; inspired synchronicity! AA World Services (AAWS) discontinued using the circle and triangle on AA generated material after the US general service conference in 1993. The story is told in the December 1993 issue of the Grapevine, viz: "Adopted at the 20th anniversary international convention in St Louis, the circle and triangle symbol was registered as an official AA mark in 1955 ... By the mid-1980s, however, it had also begun to be used by outside organisations, such as novelty manufacturers, publishers and occasionally treatment facilities. There was growing concern in the membership of AA about this situation. Some AA members were saying 'we don't want our circle and triangle aligned with non-AA purposes'. In keeping with the Sixth Tradition ... AAWS board began to contact outside entities that were using the circle and triangle in an unauthorised manner, and to take action to prevent such use of the symbol. AAWS implemented this policy with restraint, and did not resort to legal remedies until all attempts at persuasion and conciliation had been unsuccessful... Denying the use of the symbol to outside entities raised other problems, however. By early 1990s it was clear that some AA members very much wanted to be able to obtain medallions with 'our' circle and triangle ... At the 1992 conference there were presentations on why we should or should not produce medallions, and on the responsibility of AAWS to protect our trademarks and copyright ... (Conference asked the trustees to undertake a feasibility study and report back to an ad hoc committee of delegates). The committee ... presented its report and recommendations (to Conference 1993) and Conference approved two of five recommendations:- 1) that the use of sobriety chips/medallions is a matter of local autonomy ... and 2) it is not appropriate for AAWS or the Grapevine to produce or license the production of chips /medallions ... The chips and trademark questions were dealt with as separately as possible ... Immediately after the conference the general service board accepted AAWS's recommendation to discontinue protecting the circle and triangle symbol as one of AAWs's registered marks and by early June the trustees reached substantial unanimity in support of AAWS's statement that, to avoid the suggestion of association or affiliation with outside goods and services, AAWS Inc would phase out the 'official' or 'legal' use of the circle and triangle ... Like the Serenity Prayer and slogans, which have never had official recognition, the circle and triangle will most likely continue to be used widely for many AA purposes. The difference from earlier practice is that its official use to denote Alcoholics Anonymous materials will be phased out. Laurie A. - - - - CIRCLE AND TRIANGLE LOGOS: Civil Air Patrol: http://www.caphistory.org/museum_exh_1.html Civil Defense: http://museumcollections.in.gov/detail.php?t=objects&type=browse&f=object_ty pe&s\ =Booklet&record=15 [10] YMCA: http://www.hymca.jp/fukuyama/nihongo/english/ymca_message/index.html http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=1599054 Sons of Temperance: http://www.sonsoftemperance.abelgratis.co.uk/ Hamilton Bulldogs sports logo: http://www.sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=2147 Pittsburgh Penguins sports logo: http://www.sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=269 NASA mission patch: http://imageevent.com/publicgallery/photography/symbolsandlofos000?p=79&n=1& m=-1\ &c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9 [11] Pyramid (triangle) in a circle on the back of the U.S. dollar bill: http://www.unique-design.net/library/myth/image.html Asian: http://www.sparksdojo.com http://www.longchenfoundation.org/aboutSymbol.html holistic medicine: http://www.rmholistics.com/blog/?page_id=2&action=lostpassword Cemetery of Montparnasse in Paris: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwr/217532490/ Magic symbolism (Solomon's Triangle): http://www.thelemapedia.org/images/2/2a/Goetia2.jpg http://www.answers.com/topic/magic-circle-2 Health Occupations Students of America http://www.david-ho.com/HOSA/About.html IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5746. . . . . . . . . . . . Pensions to GSO Personnel From: M.J. Johnson . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/1/2009 7:28:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Does anyone have any historical background regarding the institution of pensions for GSO workers? I'm trying to determine if the pensions that GSO employees & members of the Board of Trustees are eligible for came into existence out a Conference advisory action, or if it was part of the original charter, or just exactly what the history around it was... Many thanks, - M.J. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5747. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/30/2009 4:26:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Anecdotal: early on in my sobriety, in Wilmington NC, (about 25 years ago), I remember remarking that there were no black people in AA meetings. I was informed "they" had their own meetings. I found out they met just down the street where from where I was living at the time, in "shanty town" in my sobriety shack! I visited the meeting and it was a bit strange, the looks. During the same time period, I got involved with starting the area's only gay group. Our first round up, we invited a black gay man to be our featured guest speaker. I believe he had over 30 years at the time. And his story was something of the AA history of both black people and gay people in the area, from NYC on down the Eastern/ southeastern Seaboard. I wish I had a copy of that talk. I know now how remarkable his journey was. As I remember it, it was a struggle that I do not think I could have made. I probably would not have been able to stay sober under those conditions, feeling that sort of persecution in the rooms, let alone in the life outside the rooms. AA has some very ugly history, as does America in general. And we still have a long way to go. I'm reminded that unless we learn from our past, we are doomed to repeat it. Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 - - - - From: Michael Oates (mso2941 at yahoo.com) This is great information. About ten years ago the Pope issued an apology for the Catholic Church's actions in dealing with segregation. Has AA ever offered an amends for its behavior during this period of Americana? - - - - PHOTOS OF BROWNIE'S, the AA meeting set up by one of the great early black leaders in northern Indiana AA, and some of the people from Chicago and South Bend who have been supporting this historic site: http://hindsfoot.org/ndigsym.html http://www.geocities.com/glennccc@sbcglobal.net/digsym01.html http://www.geocities.com/glennccc@sbcglobal.net/digsym02.html TRANSCRIPTION OF RECORDINGS OF BLACK LEADERS SPEAKING (early Chicago and South Bend AA): http://hindsfoot.org/nblack1.html http://hindsfoot.org/Nblack2.html http://hindsfoot.org/Nblack3.html THE WISDOM OF GOSHEN BILL (another early black leader from northern Indiana AA): http://hindsfoot.org/nkosc3gb.html - - - - From: (aadavidi at yahoo.com) I was told by a member raised in coastal South Carolina about the experience of an A.A. group in the Myrtle Beach, S.C. area during the Jim Crow days. It seems a black man came to this group seeking help and being an alcoholic they knew they were obliged to do what they could for him. Of course the local laws forbid his entering the same building with the white folks. They held a group conscience, prayed on the matter and someone came up with the idea of placing a chair in the doorway for the black man to sit in during the meetings. This way the law was not violated because he was not exactly included nor was our 3rd tradition violated because he was not exactly excluded. - - - - From: Sober186@aol.com (Sober186 at aol.com) About 15 or 20 years ago I listened to a panel of Old Timers at a local gathering which included an Afrcan American. He related that he had been in the Air Force based in a southern state, and after several drunken escapades, his commanding officer ordered him to attend AA meetings. There were no "Colored Only" meetings. The community or state had laws which made it illegal for blacks to attend any gathering with whites, but he showed up at the local AA meeting anyway. The members of the local AA group decided they could place a chair for lthe African American in the hallway just outside the door of their meeting room. The members then arranged their own chairs so that the black man was included in the circle, even though he would not technically be in the same room in which the meeting for whites was held. Jim L. Columbus, Ohio IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5748. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Early AA meeting formats From: azmikefitz . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/30/2009 7:42:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII As some of the group members are aware recently we launched a new website that hosts many early A.A. talks, www.recoveryspeakers.org, one talk that will be of interest related to the early times is "Annv of St Thomas" Sister Ignatia. This recording has several of the members from the Kings School original group speaking at the beginning of the meeting, followed by a great talk by Bill W. and a very short talk by Sister Ignatia, her last recorded talk. Bob E. sober since 1936 talks a bit about going upstairs at T Henry's house in Akron. Please note that this site is now available for free downloading but does need support. In our first week we have averaged 100 visitors per day who have been enjoying thousands of downloaded talks. The comments we have received have been wonderful and we are most grateful for any support. Sincerely, Mike F IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5749. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? From: johnlawlee . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/1/2009 7:48:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "tomvlll" wrote: > > How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the > rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did > they have segregated meetings? > The Jim Crow laws were limited to public accomodations, so they would have had little to do with AA. Private gatherings were not restricted by the Jim Crow laws. About the only time the Jim Crow laws would have come into play would have been where an AA meeting was held in a public facility, such as a school, courthouse, train station, restaurant or town hall. Blacks would have had to use designated restrooms and drinking fountains in those buildings. I suspect Bill Wilson's concern in the period 1940-64 was to not involve AA in an area of public controversy. Bill was about as colorblind and inclusive as they came, but he was very sensitive on public perception of the Fellowship. John Lee Pittsburgh IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5750. . . . . . . . . . . . First black AA group was in Washington D.C. From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/2/2009 4:14:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Did Jim's Story first appear in the Big Book in the second edition? ("This physician, one of the earliest members of AA's first black group, tells of how freedom came as he worked among his people.") The group was in Washington: "... we met at Ella G.'s. It was Charlie G. and three or four others. That was the first meeting of a colored group in AA as far as I know ... Charlie, my sponsor was white, and when we got our group started, we got help from other white groups in Washington. They came, many of them, and stuck by us and told us how to hold meetings ..." Anyone know the date, it was after 1940? Jim was born in Virginia. He wrote, "I don't think I suffered too much as far as the racial situation was concerned because I was born into it and knew nothing other than that. A man (sic) wasn't actually mistreated, though if he was, he could only resent it. He could do nothing about it... On the other hand, I got quite a different picture farther south..." Laurie A. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5751. . . . . . . . . . . . First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/2/2009 6:32:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII WASHINGTON, D.C. Jim's Story in the Big Book (Jim Scott MD, Washington, DC). Some regard this as having been the first black AA group: April 1945. Big Book, 2nd edition #471, 3rd edition #483, 4th edition 232 http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm (or http://silkworth.net/aabiography/storyauthors.html ) This account says (but without giving a date): "When repairing an electric outlet for a friend, to earn some drinking money, he met Ella G., whom he had known years before but didn't recognize. Ella arranged for Jim to meet 'Charlie G.' who became his sponsor. Charlie was a white man. The following Sunday he met with Ella, Charlie, and three or four others at Ella's house. 'That was the first meeting of a colored group in A.A.,' so far as Jim knew." "Jim spoke at the 'God as We Understand Him' meeting held Sunday morning at the International Convention in St. Louis in 1955. Bill wrote in 'A.A. Comes of Age:'" "'Deep silence fell as Dr. Jim S., the A.A. speaker, told of his life experience and the serious drinking that led to the crises which had brought about his spiritual awakening. He re-enacted for us his own struggle to start the very first group among Negroes, his own people. Aided by a tireless and eager wife, he had turned his home into a combined hospital and A.A. meeting place, free to all. He told how early failure had finally been transformed under God's grace into amazing success, we who listened realized that A.A., not only could cross seas and mountains and boundaries of language and nation but could surmount obstacles of race and creed as well.'" Bob Pearson, Manuscript of A.A. World History, page 44, gives a date: "The Washington Colored Group was founded in April '45 by Jimmy S. It later changed its name to the Cosmopolitan Group to convey the fact that it was 'a group for all people, all races; it doesn't matter who you are.'" ____________________________________ CHICAGO: Chicago however appears to have had a black AA group started a month earlier, in March 1945: http://hindsfoot.org/Nblack3.html GLENN: Now what year did you come into A.A. in Chicago? BILL WILLIAMS: I think it 'uz, umn .... JIMMY H.: Forty-five .... It was December '45. Cause [Earl] Redmond came in in March, you told me .... BILL WILLIAMS: But anyway, I know Redmond came in in March, and I came in that following December. GLENN: So when you came to South Bend [in 1948] you had about four or five years sobriety behind you? You had a good program by then. BILL WILLIAMS: Oh yeah, I was pretty solid. I knew by that time that it was going to work . . . . GLENN: Now when you came into A.A. in Chicago, in 1945, did you hit trouble there too? Was there a color bar .... there in Chicago in 1945? I don't know anything about Chicago. BILL WILLIAMS: Oh yeah! Yeah, it was the same thing. It's still prejudiced, even now [1999]. GLENN: How did you deal with that? In Chicago, in 1945? BILL WILLIAMS: Well, I was born in Texas. RAYMOND: He's a cowboy! [Laughter] ____________________________________ So what further information can our AA historians from Washington D.C. and Chicago give us? I know that in Chicago, the Evans Avenue group still meets, although they have moved to a new location. I have visited their new building, and there were photographs of Earl Redmond and so on, and there also appeared to be a lot of other material there of great archival significance. Glenn C. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5752. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/2/2009 4:54:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII At 18:48 6/1/2009, johnlawlee wrote: >--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, >"tomvlll" wrote: > > > > How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the > > rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did > > they have segregated meetings? > > > >The Jim Crow laws were limited to public >accomodations, so they would have had little >to do with AA. Private gatherings were not >restricted by the Jim Crow laws. > >About the only time the Jim Crow laws would >have come into play would have been where >an AA meeting was held in a public facility, >such as a school, courthouse, train station, >restaurant or town hall. Blacks would have >had to use designated restrooms and drinking >fountains in those buildings. > >I suspect Bill Wilson's concern in the period >1940-64 was to not involve AA in an area of >public controversy. Bill was about as >colorblind and inclusive as they came, but >he was very sensitive on public perception >of the Fellowship. I would say this oversimplifies it quite a bit. I do remember in the early '60s the police pulling blacks out of white churches and whites out of black churches in the south without any request from the congregations. Separation meant separation. Bus stations, train stations, airports, movie theaters, sports stadia were segregated. I moved to Shreveport, Louisiana, in the fall of 1946, and, except for several years in the middle '60s, have lived in Louisiana since and observed segregation up close. I attended Centenary College in Shreveport, class of 1961. By the time I graduated, some of my fellow students were making contacts in the black community. While there was no reaction by the college administration, there was from the community and politicians. Waking up in the morning and finding garbage on your lawn was the first sign you had disturbed the powers that were. While private gatherings may not have been unlawful, they were often noticed and there likely were consequences. Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5753. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? From: Cindy Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/5/2009 11:18:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII On Sunday, March 22, 2009, members of my HomeGroup rented a van and we drove to Washington, DC - where the Reeves Club was holding its' "4th Annual AA Old-Timers Speakers Jamm" This event was also a celebration of the Cosmopolitan Club, and every hour, the group read portions of "Jim's Story". The event was absolutely outstanding--each speaker had over 20 years sobriety--the event lasted from noon- 7pm and also included dinner. History of the Cosmopolitan Club (as it was printed in the programs): In April of 1945, Mrs. Ella B. Gant, a non-alcoholic arranged a meeting between Charlie G., a white man and sober member of A.A., And Jim S., a black man and an alcoholic who was still drinking. Mrs. Gant had known Charlie when he was drinking and he had told her about how AA had helped him. Upon hearing his story, she arranged for the two to meet. Out of that meeting was born the Washington Colored Group, the first Black AA group. The group survived with the help of Charlie G., Bill A., and Chase H. of the Old Central Group; DC's pioneer group of Alcoholics Anonymous. Stories of our group have been handed down from one generation of recovering drunks to the next. One story is that sometimes there would be no one at the meetings, except Jim and his wife, Vi S. Jim S., in his story, reveals that "They came, many of them (white AA's) and stuck by us and told us how to hold meetings, and how to do 12 Step work. Most of the 12 Step work was done at a new alcoholic clinic located at 7th & P Street, N.W. It was at this clinic that the group met Julius S., whose sobriety dates from 1945 and who is the sole survivor of that small band of recovering people. The groups' first meeting were held in the home of Mrs. Gant. They then met several times in the home of Mrs. Gant's mother. The Group of approximately 15 men & women, with sobriety ranging from a few weeks to one year, grew to nearly 30 members in the second year. Jim S. began to seek space for a meeting. He approached several ministers who praised what he was doing, but they did not offer space. He then approached the Anthony Bowen YMCA at 12th & S Streets, N.W. The "Y" rented a room to the group for $2.00 per night. In this second year, the group's name was changed from the Washington Colored Group to the Cosmopolitan Group of Alcoholics Anonymous--an indicator that all suffering alcoholics were welcome regardless of race. That group tradition remains in effect today. Often, a YMCA employee would come to the meeting room door, and beckon two or more members, then leave the room, on their way to "Carry the Message" These pioneers began to take their message to other cities: Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York City and Fredericksburg, VA. Members of the group also included traveling sales men, with all the energy of a crusaders, who took the message up and down the East Coast as well. In 1947, the House District Committee of the 80th Congress held the first Federal hearing dealing with alcoholism and the need for rehabilitation. At the hearing, Julius S., of our group testified that he had not had a drink for 18 months! The Traditions, one of which deals with Anonymity were confirmed by the A.A. Convention in 1950. In 1950, the DC Police Court allowed AA into the courtroom where meetings were held on Saturday mornings. Bob C., a probation officer, began sending probationers to the Cosmopolitan Group. At a later date, attendance at the weekly AA meeting became one of the conditions of release. It was at the 1955 AA Convention, held in St. Louis, that our founder, Jim S., became the first black person to address a national AA Convention. In 1970 or '71, the group moved to the Petworth Church located on Grant Circle of Northwest Washington, and from there in 1975 to the Peoples' Congregational Church. Currently, we meet at the Emory Methodist Church every Monday and Friday now at 8:oopm. We've been here since April, 1993. Jim S.'s story reveals theat in the first fev month s of his sobriety, he gathered up alcoholics in an attempt to save the world. He wanted to give this new "something" to everyone who had a problem. Well, his story concludes, "We didn't save the world, but we did manage to help some individuals." The Cosmopolitan Group would like to acknowledge the research and time put forth by Dicker S. in compiling this paper. Best, Cindy Miller Sunday Morning Group at the 4021 Clubhouse Philadelphia, PA -cm `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> - - - - On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Glenn Chesnut wrote: > > > WASHINGTON, D.C. > > Jim's Story in the Big Book (Jim Scott MD, > Washington, DC). Some regard this as having > been the first black AA group: April 1945. > > Big Book, 2nd edition #471, 3rd edition #483, > 4th edition 232 > > http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm > > (or http://silkworth.net/aabiography/storyauthors.html ) > > This account says (but without giving a date): > > "When repairing an electric outlet for a > friend, to earn some drinking money, he met > Ella G., whom he had known years before but > didn't recognize. Ella arranged for Jim to > meet 'Charlie G.' who became his sponsor. > Charlie was a white man. The following Sunday > he met with Ella, Charlie, and three or four > others at Ella's house. 'That was the first > meeting of a colored group in A.A.,' so far > as Jim knew." > > "Jim spoke at the 'God as We Understand Him' > meeting held Sunday morning at the International > Convention in St. Louis in 1955. Bill wrote in > 'A.A. Comes of Age:'" > > "'Deep silence fell as Dr. Jim S., the A.A. > speaker, told of his life experience and the > serious drinking that led to the crises which > had brought about his spiritual awakening. > He re-enacted for us his own struggle to start > the very first group among Negroes, his own > people. Aided by a tireless and eager wife, > he had turned his home into a combined hospital > and A.A. meeting place, free to all. He told > how early failure had finally been transformed > under God's grace into amazing success, we who > listened realized that A.A., not only could > cross seas and mountains and boundaries of > language and nation but could surmount obstacles > of race and creed as well.'" > > Bob Pearson, Manuscript of A.A. World History, > page 44, gives a date: > > "The Washington Colored Group was founded in > April '45 by Jimmy S. It later changed its > name to the Cosmopolitan Group to convey the > fact that it was 'a group for all people, all > races; it doesn't matter who you are.'" > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5754. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? From: arcchi88 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/3/2009 9:22:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Greetings: According to the history of the Evans Avenue Group, which is printed every year on the program for their annual banquet, Earl Redmond did get sober in March 1945. He lived on Evans Avenue at the time, which is where the group got its name. They started meeting on a regular basis from that time on. I have also heard that St. Louis had a black group in the mid 40's as well. The Evans Avenue group has produced many long timers. One that I know of just passed with 62 years of sobriety. The annual banquet has had featured speakers such as Bill Dotson (AA #3), Earl Treat (Founder in Chicago), Judge Touhy (Why We Were Chosen), etc. Tom C - - - - --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chesnut wrote: > > CHICAGO: > > Chicago however appears to have had a black AA > group started a month earlier, in March 1945: > > http://hindsfoot.org/Nblack3.html > > GLENN: Now what year did you come into A.A. > in Chicago? > > BILL WILLIAMS: I think it 'uz, umn .... > > JIMMY H.: Forty-five .... It was December '45. > Cause [Earl] Redmond came in in March, you told > me .... > > BILL WILLIAMS: But anyway, I know Redmond > came in in March, and I came in that following > December. > > GLENN: So when you came to South Bend [in 1948] > you had about four or five years sobriety behind > you? You had a good program by then. > > BILL WILLIAMS: Oh yeah, I was pretty solid. I > knew by that time that it was going to work . . . . > > GLENN: Now when you came into A.A. in Chicago, > in 1945, did you hit trouble there too? Was > there a color bar .... there in Chicago in > 1945? I don't know anything about Chicago. > > BILL WILLIAMS: Oh yeah! Yeah, it was the same > thing. It's still prejudiced, even now [1999]. > > GLENN: How did you deal with that? In Chicago, > in 1945? > > BILL WILLIAMS: Well, I was born in Texas. > > RAYMOND: He's a cowboy! [Laughter] > ____________________________________ > > So what further information can our AA historians > from Washington D.C. and Chicago give us? I > know that in Chicago, the Evans Avenue group > still meets, although they have moved to a new > location. I have visited their new building, > and there were photographs of Earl Redmond > and so on, and there also appeared to be a > lot of other material there of great archival > significance. > > Glenn C. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5755. . . . . . . . . . . . Origins of AA in San Francisco From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/2/2009 11:13:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII They say "more will be revealed..." The San Francisco Group was the first child of the New Jersey Group! Below is part of the research I had done for the Timeline of the First 25 AA Groups. I was recently adding some updates to a new "First One Hundred" list I am working on when I realized that Ray W. from "New York" is actually Ray Wood from Orange, New Jersey - a "First One Hundred" pioneer member of the New Jersey Group with a sobriety date of March 1939. He is listed on the group survey of 1/1/1940 with 9 months of continuous sobriety. It was Ray that started AA in San Francisco while on a business trip November 21, 1939. (From the Timeline of the first 25 AA Groups) A.A Group # 10 San Francisco, California So it happened, that when an AA member from New York, Ray W., came to San Francisco for a sales training course in November of that year he brought with him a list of those who had made inquiries. Among them was Mrs. Oram's boarder, Ted. From his room in the Clift Hotel on Geary Street, Ray called those on his list. He finally arranged for some of them to meet with him in his room on Tuesday, November 21, 1939. It was there that the first meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous on the West Coast was held. Aside from Ray and Ted, there were two others present, Don B. and Dave L. and the meeting lasted about two hours. As Ray mentioned, it had become clear that they would need to form an AA group in San Francisco, where they all could meet regularly. Mrs. Oram offered her kitchen as a meeting place. So shortly before Christmas, 1939, the first AA group, the "San Francisco Group" began meeting in Mrs. Oram's kitchen, and later in various members' homes. In October of 1940 they found a more or less permanent site for their meetings in the Telegraph Hill Community House at 1736 Stockton Street in North Beach. (www.aasf.org) AA's First Meeting on the West Coast (Adapted from C.N.C.A History, prepared by the CNCA Archives Committee, September 1984) and more details.... Bob Pearson - Unpublished AA History Manuscript. San Francisco and Northern California The first contact with AA from San Francisco was a letter from Mrs. Zelpa Oram who wrote the New York office following the Gabriel Heatter broadcast in April 1939. She was seeking help for one of her boarders, Ted C, a sometime traveling salesman and full time alcoholic. In his mid-30s, he had been in and out of jails and state hospitals for years. Mrs. Oram ordered a Big Book which arrived in June, and Ted sobered up in July. The Liberty magazine article in September attracted a number of inquiries from Northern California, who were advised by the New York office Ray W, an eastern salesman, would be in San Francisco to meet with them. On November 21, 1939, Ray met in his room at the Clift Hotel with Ted C, Don B and Dave L Ray told them about the AA program and the Big Book and turned over to them several more names to call. God Bless, John Barton Area 44 H & A Chair The Big Book Study Group of South Orange, New Jersey IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5756. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Wednesday removed from 4th ed. He Sold Himself Short From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/4/2009 5:17:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII At 09:43 5/22/2009, garylock7008 wrote: >Speaking of changes made in the 4th edition of >the Big Book - I am wondering why they took the >word "Wednesday" out of Earl T's story ("He >Sold Himself Short," page 262/263) in the 4th >Edition, in all the printings? > >Back in the past this was the only day >[afternoon] a doctor in the town I grew up >in - in Nova Scotia - ever took off. > >To me it tells of the sacrifice and dedication >Dr. Bob and his family had made for the >fellowship! With the stroke of a keyboard - >a part of history is gone. I was looking for something in Bill Dotson's story, A.A. Number Three. I noticed on p. 190 that three little changes similar to the one Gary mentioned were made in the 4th Edition. Two phrases were removed, one phrase was relocated in the same sentence, and "non-existent was changed to "nonexistent". I know that over eighty changes were made in the original edition of the Big Book. Many of these were correcting errors, and some reflected the burgeoning membership, but the wording of a Step was changed and "former alcoholic" and "ex-alcoholic" were changed to "ex-problem drinkers". I wonder if there is a tabulation of the changes made from the 3rd Edition to the 4th? Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5757. . . . . . . . . . . . History of sponsorship From: Charlie C . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/5/2009 8:44:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned. My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct? Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group! Charlie C. IM = route20guy IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5758. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? From: Al Welch . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/6/2009 4:44:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have no known way to confirm the following told to me by an old timer that has passed on. Since the subject of black groups has come up, I was told that 48 years ago there were very few black AA groups in Baltimore & Washington DC and they decided to get together once a year for "A Gratitude Breakfast." Sometime after the beginning one it was opened to whites as well. I attended my first Gratitude Breakfast in 1979 being held at the Social Security Headquarters cafeteria and have not missed one since. The most recent one was February 22, 2009 and held at La Fountain Bleu in Glen Burnie. (Yes, it has gone upscale) Unfortunately, the roots of this breakfast have been largely forgotten or deemed not worth passing on.......... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Miller" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5759. . . . . . . . . . . . First Latin American country with an AA group From: nuevenueve@ymail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/5/2009 4:28:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Group, When and which was the first Latin American country receiving the AA message? Best Regards Hugo IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5760. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First black AA group in Washington D.C. From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/6/2009 5:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have heard of the Metropolis Club in DC and have been to a few meetings there. But I have never heard of the Cosmopolitan Club. Does it still exist? Sincerely, Jim F. --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Cindy Miller wrote: On Sunday, March 22, 2009, members of my HomeGroup rented a van and we drove to Washington, DC - where the Reeves Club was holding its' "4th Annual AA Old-Timers Speakers Jamm" This event was also a celebration of the Cosmopolitan Club, and every hour, the group read portions of "Jim's Story". The event was absolutely outstanding- -each speaker had over 20 years sobriety--the event lasted from noon- 7pm and also included dinner. History of the Cosmopolitan Club (as it was printed in the programs): In April of 1945, Mrs. Ella B. Gant, a non-alcoholic arranged a meeting between Charlie G., a white man and sober member of A.A., And Jim S., a black man and an alcoholic who was still drinking. Mrs. Gant had known Charlie when he was drinking and he had told her about how AA had helped him. Upon hearing his story, she arranged for the two to meet. Out of that meeting was born the Washington Colored Group, the first Black AA group. The group survived with the help of Charlie G., Bill A., and Chase H. of the Old Central Group; DC's pioneer group of Alcoholics Anonymous. Stories of our group have been handed down from one generation of recovering drunks to the next. One story is that sometimes there would be no one at the meetings, except Jim and his wife, Vi S. Jim S., in his story, reveals that "They came, many of them (white AA's) and stuck by us and told us how to hold meetings, and how to do 12 Step work. Most of the 12 Step work was done at a new alcoholic clinic located at 7th & P Street, N.W. It was at this clinic that the group met Julius S., whose sobriety dates from 1945 and who is the sole survivor of that small band of recovering people. The groups' first meeting were held in the home of Mrs. Gant. They then met several times in the home of Mrs. Gant's mother. The Group of approximately 15 men & women, with sobriety ranging from a few weeks to one year, grew to nearly 30 members in the second year. Jim S. began to seek space for a meeting. He approached several ministers who praised what he was doing, but they did not offer space. He then approached the Anthony Bowen YMCA at 12th & S Streets, N.W. The "Y" rented a room to the group for $2.00 per night. In this second year, the group's name was changed from the Washington Colored Group to the Cosmopolitan Group of Alcoholics Anonymous--an indicator that all suffering alcoholics were welcome regardless of race. That group tradition remains in effect today. Often, a YMCA employee would come to the meeting room door, and beckon two or more members, then leave the room, on their way to "Carry the Message" These pioneers began to take their message to other cities: Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York City and Fredericksburg, VA. Members of the group also included traveling sales men, with all the energy of a crusaders, who took the message up and down the East Coast as well. In 1947, the House District Committee of the 80th Congress held the first Federal hearing dealing with alcoholism and the need for rehabilitation. At the hearing, Julius S., of our group testified that he had not had a drink for 18 months! The Traditions, one of which deals with Anonymity were confirmed by the A.A. Convention in 1950. In 1950, the DC Police Court allowed AA into the courtroom where meetings were held on Saturday mornings. Bob C., a probation officer, began sending probationers to the Cosmopolitan Group. At a later date, attendance at the weekly AA meeting became one of the conditions of release. It was at the 1955 AA Convention, held in St. Louis, that our founder, Jim S., became the first black person to address a national AA Convention. In 1970 or '71, the group moved to the Petworth Church located on Grant Circle of Northwest Washington, and from there in 1975 to the Peoples' Congregational Church. Currently, we meet at the Emory Methodist Church every Monday and Friday now at 8:oopm. We've been here since April, 1993. Jim S.'s story reveals theat in the first fev month s of his sobriety, he gathered up alcoholics in an attempt to save the world. He wanted to give this new "something" to everyone who had a problem. Well, his story concludes, "We didn't save the world, but we did manage to help some individuals. " The Cosmopolitan Group would like to acknowledge the research and time put forth by Dicker S. in compiling this paper. Best, Cindy Miller Sunday Morning Group at the 4021 Clubhouse Philadelphia, PA -cm `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5761. . . . . . . . . . . . African-American Participation in AA Meetings From: David . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/6/2009 8:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Is anyone aware, in either local, district, area or international archives, or from personal experience, of any information concerning African-American participation in AA groups in America or other countries from approximately 1940 to 1970? Thanks so much for your input! IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5762. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings From: Meritt Hutton . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/7/2009 9:33:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dr Bob and the Good Old Timers, pp 247-248, has a story concerning the first black group in Cleveland, Ohio. - - - - From the moderator: Oscar W. made a twelfth step call on a black woman, bringing a Big Book with him. But then the white AA's in Cleveland's Lake Shore Group refused to let her attend their meeting, so Oscar and some of the other white men who were sympathetic to her plight, set up a group in one of Cleveland's black neighborhoods, on Cedar Ave., and this group quickly grew to fifteen members. No date given, but it is in a part of the book which deals mostly with the 1940's. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5763. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First Latin American country with an AA group From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/8/2009 5:32:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Mexico Yis, Shakey Mike Gwirtz - - - - So for example, in 1948, Bill Wilson and Father Ralph Pfau met in California, and took a trip to Mexico together to help the growth of AA in that country. Glenn C., Moderator - - - - In a message dated 6/6/2009 nuevenueve@ymail.com writes: Hi Group, When and which was the first Latin American country receiving the AA message? Best Regards Hugo IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5764. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: History of sponsorship From: Jay Lawyer . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/7/2009 9:37:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Charlie and group, We must remember that directions in the Big Book were for those members who received a copy of it in the mail and weren't near any group, or didn't have the luxury of being close to another group or member of AA. The book is just giving somewhat clear messages of who to look for in order to do the work. Remember at the time the Big Book was published there were only 3 groups. NY, Akron, and Cleveland. What were you to do? The Big Book explains it. Jay _____ From: Charlie C Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 Subject: History of sponsorship I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book" ... and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor .... When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Charlie C. IM = route20guy IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5765. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First black AA group in Washington D.C. From: Michael F. Margetis . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/12/2009 8:03:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The Cosmoplotan group meets twice a week in NW Washington DC. on Monday and Friday nights. Here's a link to the DC intergroup (WAIA) http://www.aa-dc.org/default.asp Mike Margetis Brunswick, MD - - - - James Flynn wrote: > > I have heard of the Metropolis Club in DC and > have been to a few meetings there. But I have > never heard of the Cosmopolitan Club. Does it > still exist? > > Sincerely, Jim F. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5766. . . . . . . . . . . . Lessons From Rock Bottom From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/13/2009 9:25:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII AN INTERESTING ARTICLE ON A.A. FROM A NON-A.A. SOURCE "Lessons From Rock Bottom: The church can learn about grace from the recovery movement" By Philip Yancey (posted 7/11/00 on Christianity Today Online) In earlier times, some theologians wrote "natural theologies" by first explicating the wonders of nature and then gradually moving toward theism, revelation, and Christian doctrine. If I were writing a natural theology today, I think I would start with recovering alcoholics. It staggers me that psychiatrists, pharmacologists, and scientific reductionists cannot improve on a spiritual program devised by a couple of alcoholics 60 years ago. Anthropology, original sin, regeneration, sanctification -- the recovery movement contains within it seeds of all these doctrines. As an alcoholic once told me, "I publicly declare 'I am an alcoholic' whenever I introduce myself at group. It is a statement of failure, of helplessness, and surrender. Take a room of a dozen or so people, all of whom admit helplessness and failure, and it's pretty easy to see how God then presents Himself in that group." The historian of Alcoholics Anonymous titled his work Not-God because, he said, that stands as the most important hurdle an addicted person must surmount: to acknowledge, deep in the soul, not being God. No mastery of manipulation and control, at which alcoholics excel, can overcome the root problem; rather, the alcoholic must recognize individual helplessness and fall back in the arms of the Higher Power. "First of all, we had to quit playing God," concluded the founders of AA; and then allow God himself to "be God" in the addict's life, which involves daily, even moment-by-moment, surrender. Bill Wilson, the cofounder of Alcoholics Anonymous, reached the unshakable conviction, now a canon of Twelve-Step groups, that an alcoholic must "hit bottom" in order to climb upward. Wilson wrote his fellow strugglers, "How privileged we are to understand so well the divine paradox that strength rises from weakness, that humiliation goes before resurrection: that pain is not only the price but the very touchstone of spiritual rebirth." The Apostle Paul could not have phrased it better. The need for humble dependence continues throughout recovery. Although an alcoholic may pray desperately for the condition to go away, very few addicts report sudden, miraculous healing. Most battle temptation every day of their lives, experiencing grace not as a magic potion, rather as a balm whose strength is activated daily by conscious dependence on God. One alcoholic wrote me, "I know that I can go out and start drinking today and have all the sex I want with all the women I want and live in a state of continued drunkenness for quite some time. But there is a catch. I know firsthand all the misery and guilt that comes along with it. And that is something I want no part of. I have experienced guilt and misery so extreme that I didn't want to live anymore at all--and that, my friend, is why I would rather not have to take advantage of God's generosity in being willing to forgive me once again should I go that route. Plus, in my present life, every now and then I think I do manage to do God's will. And, when I do, then the rewards are so tremendous and satisfying that I get kind of addicted to that closeness to God. There is a common saying in AA: 'Religion is for people who believe in hell. Spirituality is for people who have been there.'" In correspondence with Bill Wilson, the psychiatrist Carl Jung remarked that it may be no accident that we refer to alcoholic drinks as "spirits." Perhaps, suggested Jung, alcoholics have a greater thirst for the spirit than other people, but it is all too often misdirected. Early in the AA program, two groups divided over the issue of perfectionism. One, an offshoot of the Oxford Group, insisted on "Four Absolutes" and required its members to commit to a strict Christian creed. The other, led by Bill Wilson, started with a dependence on grace, an acknowledgment that its members would never achieve perfection. Absolutes, said Wilson, either turned alcoholics away or gave them a dangerous feeling of "spiritual inflation." Over time, the perfectionist Oxford Group shriveled up and disappeared; grace-based AA has never stopped growing. We in the church have as much to learn from people in the recovery movement as we have to offer them. I was struck by one observation from an alcoholic friend of mine. "When I'm late to church, people turn around and stare at me with frowns of disapproval. I get the clear message that I'm not as responsible as they are. When I'm late to AA, the meeting comes to a halt and everyone jumps up to hug and welcome me. They realize that my lateness may be a sign that I almost didn't make it. When I show up, it proves that my desperate need for them won out over my desperate need for alcohol." IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5767. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings From: Cindy Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/7/2009 9:17:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Probably the broadest search parameters I have ever seen!!! Good luck!! (But try to narrow things down a bit) -cm `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> - - - - From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com) Garrett A, not sure of spelling, then a past trustee. In the early eighties had about thirty two years sober. We had a woman member who's name escapes me who had well over thirty years sober in the early eighties. I am sure the DC members of the cosmopolitan group or the metropolis groups could name many people of that era. Norman B from the Washington area was famous for his work with Montgomery General Hospital and certainly along the east coast goes back at least till 1970. Our Washington Area Inter Group had a very large percentage of Of African Americans who had responsible position in our inter group. Of all the old timers in the Washington area it seems the ones with the longest sobriety were our African American members. - - - - On Jun 6, 2009, at 8:55 PM, David wrote: > > Is anyone aware, in either local, district, > area or international archives, or from > personal experience, of any information > concerning African-American participation > in AA groups in America or other countries > from approximately 1940 to 1970? > > Thanks so much for your input! IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5768. . . . . . . . . . . . Rowland Hazard in New Mexico From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/10/2009 8:48:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The latest issue of the Tularosa Basin Historical Society magazine, devoted to Rowland Hazard and his pottery factory, is now available. Ted mentioned this here earlier (and yes, they do spell the name "Roland," no one can get everything right). Local historian Janie Bell Furman has put together a complete history of Hazard's projects there, beautifully written and fully illustrated. I was transfixed, both by the story and by the extensive collections of photos. As Ms. Furman notes, Rowland fell in love with the area when he made a cross-country car trip and was delayed there by car trouble. His wife was in the process of divorcing him, and he had just been through one the most dangerous quack alcoholism cures on record (Furman is actually not aware of these last two details, but they may clarify his behavior somewhat). His devotion to the property really comes through in her writing. Rowland truly loved the hispanic and native cultures of the area. I suspect that there was a strong spiritual element to this, and that he needed a change from the eastern gentility in which he was raised. Maybe this explains some of the near-manic intensity of his approach to the project. He literally sold everything he had for that one pearl, and unfortunately he lost his investment. One of the mysteries cleared up by this article is the identity of Clarence Agnew, who brought Rowland back East to be hospitalized after a severe relapse in 1936. Rowland apparently never went back, and the property was eventually liquidated by his brother, who took over as administrator. Rowland's commitment to the Oxford Group developed gradually over the time he was building and operating the La Luz factory, and he continued to be active in the movement after that last (?) relapse. The name of the magazine is the "Pioneer," and it is available from the Society, phone number (575) 434-4438, email tbhs@zianet, snail mail Tularosa Basin Historical Society, 1301 N. White Sands Blvd., Alamogordo NM, 88310. They don't seem to have a significant web presence. Cora IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5769. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: History of sponsorship From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/13/2009 4:13:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Just an FYI, The Big Book was published on April 10, 1939 (according to the copyright). The Cleveland Group (Abby G - Group) was founded May 11, 1939. The two groups in existence when the Book was published were Akron and NY. God Bless - - - - Jay Lawyer wrote: Subject: RE: History of sponsorship > Remember at the time the Big Book was published > there were only 3 groups. NY, Akron, and > Cleveland. What were you to do? The Big Book > explains it. > > Jay IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5770. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 1:31:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I got sober in 1987 in the Rockville/Gaithersburg area and I remember Big Norm. He was legendary in the Mongomery County Maryland meetings. Many AA's in Montgomery County Maryland went through the Montgomery General's Rehab Program and had had encounters with Big Norm. He had a way of getting drunks who thought they were tough guys to see the light of reason mostly owning to his enormous size. Sincerely, Jim F. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5771. . . . . . . . . . . . Fresno AA History From: John Dunn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/14/2009 11:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello All, Does anyone have information on the history of Fresno AA? I think it started in April 1946, but who carried the message? Thanks, John IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5772. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: History of sponsorship From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/12/2009 5:12:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII At 07:44 6/5/2009, Charlie C wrote: > I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed > here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's > 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing > the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older > members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither > place is a sponsor mentioned. > > My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA > practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is > this correct? I have read that Dr. Bob had input into the first six printings of the Little Red Book, 1946-1950, but I have yet to see any changes specifically attributed to him. That doesn't mean there aren't any, just that I am not aware of them. > > Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we > know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in > the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become > the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any > interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? > Thanks, I learn so much from this group! Use of outsiders is reiterated in the 12x12 starting at the bottom of p. 60, "Our next problem will be to discover the person in whom we are to confide," and admonishes us "to take much care, remembering that prudence is a virtue which carries a high rating." It goes on to say the person may be one who has "stayed dry," inferring he/she is in A.A. "This person may turn out to be one's sponsor, but not necessarily so," and it goes on to say the sponsor may not be the right person "for the more difficult and deeper revelations . . . a complete stranger may prove the best bet." I know some A.A.s who have been around for a long time who are aghast when reminded of this. Apparently, they feel it is their right to hear their sponsees' Fifth Steps. This would suggest the use of outsiders went into the middle 1950s. It also states that there may be things that one's sponsor doesn't need to know. Tommy H in Baton Rouge - - - - From: James Flynn (jdf10487 at yahoo.com) You could try to get sober on the book alone (once it was published) but most alcoholics could not get sober on the book alone, they need what Dr. Bob needed, another alcoholic who spoke his language. You see Dr. Bob was already a member of the Oxford Group prior to meeting Bill W. The Oxford Group principles were not enough for Dr. Bob to get sober, Dr, Bob needed Bill Wilson and Bill Wilson needed Dr. Bob for mutual support. Most of the alcoholics that got sober in the early days did not get sober with the book alone they were connected one of the few groups that existed back then. That is why Alcoholics Anonymous is described as a fellowship of men and woman who share their experience strength and hope with each other and not as a book published back in 1939. Sincerely, Jim F. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5773. . . . . . . . . . . . Sister Ignatia documents and photos From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 3:44:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Fiona D. has posted two new sections in her collection of Sister Ignatia documents and photos: http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia5.html Sister Ignatia: her parents' marriage certificate. The Church Marriage Record for Sister Ignatia's parents, Patrick Gavin and Barbara Neary, who married on 29 January 1882. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia6.html The Fourth Earl of Lucan: Sister Ignatia was born on his estate in County Mayo in Ireland. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO LOOK AT THE FOUR PREVIOUS SECTIONS: http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia1.html Sister Ignatia's birthplace in Ireland. Photos of the just discovered ruins of the two-roomed stone cottage where Sister Ignatia Gavin, the Angel of Alcoholics Anonymous, was born on 1 January 1889 at Shanvalley, Burren, in County Mayo. Photos and description (13 July 2008) by the Irish AA historian Fiona D. http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia2.html More on Sister Ignatia's birthplace in Ireland: The Neary family's rental holdings in Griffith's Land Valuation of 1855. When Patrick Gavin and Barbara Neary (Ignatia's father and mother) got married, the couple set up housekeeping in a part of County Mayo where numerous members of the Neary family lived, renting land on the Earl of Lucan's estate. From Irish AA historian and archivist Fiona D. in County Mayo. http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia3.html Seven-year-old Ignatia sails from Ireland to America in 1896 Emigration records showing the Gavin family sailing from Queenstown (now Cobh) in Cork on the SS Indiana on 2 April 1896, arriving in Philadelphia on 17 April 1896, with photographs of the ship and harbor. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia4.html Sister Ignatia: baptismal record (birth certificate) and the passenger manifest for the SS Indiana Sister Ignatia's date of birth, as given in some of the older historical sources, needs to be corrected. Born Bridget Gavin, this photograph of her baptismal record shows that she was born on 1 January 1889. This is the date which should be used. Also photographs of the three sheets of the original passenger manifest showing Sister Ignatia and her family embarking on the SS Indiana. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5774. . . . . . . . . . . . Renner''s Beer in Akron, Ohio From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 3:46:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html (about two thirds of the way down the page) Photo of a Renner's Beer Wagon in Akron, Ohio When Prohibition ended, at 12:01 A.M., on April 7, 1933, in a persistent cold rain, a crowd of 2,000 people waited in line outside the George J. Renner Brewing Company's brewery on Forge Street in Akron to purchase some of the 5,000 cases of their Grossvater brand beer that were available at $3.25 per case. By noon the next day, 10,000 cases had been sold at the brewery and through shipments all over northeast Ohio and western Pennsylvania. Was it a Renner's beer which Dr. Bob had as his last drink? (Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers page 75) Is there any record of what his favorite brand of beer was? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5775. . . . . . . . . . . . Rowland Hazard with a W From: secondles . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 4:25:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi All: Regards Rowland spelling .... in 2007 I got several deeds concerning Rowland from the Town records in Shaftsbury, Vermont and in all instances the spelling was with the "W" in 1930s. Les C - - - - "corafinch" wrote: > > The latest issue of the Tularosa Basin Histo- rical Society magazine, devoted to Rowland Hazard and his pottery factory, is now available .... and yes, they do spell the name "Roland," no one can get everything right .... - - - - From the moderator -- Rowland with a W is the correct spelling, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowland_Hazard_III http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5564 http://www.barefootsworld.net/aapeople.html Hazard, Rowland http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory_names/namesh.html Hazard, Rowland IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5776. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Rowland Hazard in New Mexico From: Dolores . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 4:17:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi, I would like to know if Roland died sober? I somehow heard that he died drunk and would like the matter cleared. Dolores IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5777. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 4:36:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Lou R., African-American, was elected Delegate from Eastern PA to the General Service Conference before 1970. His widow, Mary, may still be alive (she was a frequent and always welcomed Al-Anon speaker). The Archivist for Area 59 AA (Eastern Pennsylvania) might have information on Lou. - - - - > On Jun 6, 2009, at 8:55 PM, David wrote: > > > > Is anyone aware, in either local, district, > > area or international archives, or from > > personal experience, of any information > > concerning African-American participation > > in AA groups in America or other countries > > from approximately 1940 to 1970? > > > > Thanks so much for your input! IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5778. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First Latin American country with an AA group From: Angela Corelis . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/9/2009 8:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Grapevine, October 1996 AA Started in Mexico In March 1941, Jack Alexander's article about Alcoholics Anonymous appeared in the Saturday Evening Post. Among the first people in Mexico to read it and respond by contacting the New York AA Headquarters was an American named Arthur H. who was a resident of Mexico City . Arthur wanted to find out more about this miraculous cure for alcoholism. One year later the mail from Arthur ended and New York never received any more news about him. About that time a Mexican named Jorge S. living in Mexico City also wrote to New York requesting information. He'd learned about AA from reading a magazine published by the office of public education in Mexico. After receiving the information, Jorge felt motivated to start an AA meeting. An AA from Los Angeles got Jorge's address from New York and when he went to Mexico for business he paid a visit to Jorge. Jorge felt greatly strengthened by this contact but early in 1942, the contact with Jorge disappeared. In 1944 Gilberto M. received the AA message in Los Angeles when he was visiting with his wife Francisca, trying to find a solution to his drinking problem. There he got the addresses of the New York Office and the Cleveland intergroup. Gilberto returned to his home in Monterrey in the northern state of Nuevo Leon. His wife Francisca proved to be an extraordinary woman. She was worried about Gilberto's sobriety and she established a strong communication through the mail with New York. She spread the news in Monterrey and all over Mexico from August 1945 to June 1946. She translated several AA booklets, translations that were published in local newspapers. Some beer manufacturers tried to stop the publications, but they were too late, thank God. The Monterrey Group was born and with it a new life was opened to all the alcoholics in Mexico. The group was subsequently visited by AAs from the U.S., especially Cleveland. In 1946 the Monterrey Group had twenty-five members and appeared in the AA World Directory. In June 1945 and September 1946 the AA Grapevine published articles with news from the group. (Troubles began, caused by shortages of Spanish literature, and when the American visitors failed to come often, the Mexican AAs were dismayed. By the end of the forties, Gilberto M. was the solitary member of the Monterrey Group.) In July 1946 an AA named Lester F. from Chattanooga and New Orleans moved to Mexico City and wrote to New York requesting information about starting a group. By September 1946, two other AAs, named Lester and Pauline, who were living in Mexico City, got in touch with New York . A Mexican lawyer, Fernando I. got their address from New York and soon a Mexican doctor, Jesus A., joined them, and the Mexico City Group was born on September 25, 1946. In the April 1947 issue of the Grapevine, an article appeared called "The Mexico City Group Welcomes Visitors." This group is known today as English Speaking Group, and it still opens its doors to all visitors. Another significant event took place about the same time in Mexico City -- the visit of Ricardo P. an AA from Cleveland, Ohio. He was honorary consul of Mexico in that city and he had one special reason for his visit: passing on the AA message to Mexican society. Ricardo later translated the Big Book to Spanish, work that took him three years to complete. Finally he gave the finished translation to Bill W., and Bill took his personal Big Book and gave it to Ricardo, writing a beautiful note in it. The first Spanish-speaking group that survived permanently was the Grupo Hospital Central Militar (Military Hospital Central Group). It was founded in December 1956 by a Major Joaquin B. and his wife Irma. They were helped by the Mexico City Group members, especially by a Mexican member, Carlos C. These three people translated the Big Book; their translation was published by the New York office in 1962 and is still in use. In 1957, in my homeland of Merida, Yucatan, two AAs were working to start a group and by 1959 the Grupo Panteon Florido (Flowered Cemetery Group) was registered in New York. Our group had its meetings in the installations of a graveyard, and it was said that this was the only meeting in Mexico ever visited by Bill W. He was supposed to have exclaimed: "It's good that we're meeting in a cemetery so we know that our problem is of life and death. We can choose to be here or out in a grave." By that time in the west of the country, in Guadalajara, Jalisco, there was one English-speaking group, Chapala 100, founded by Harry O. He dreamed of forming a Spanish-speaking group. Finally he met Estanislao S. and together they formed the Grupo Tapatio in 1961. It was the start of AA in the center and west of the country. In September 1960 Reader's Digest magazine in Spanish reprinted an article called "The Strange Cure of Alcoholics Anonymous," by Paul De Kruif. It was read by a lot of alcoholics and motivated some of them to write New York asking for information. They received literature and suggestions to start meetings. So AA meetings started in some cities like Tampico, San Francisco del Rincón, and Morelia. The nineteen-sixties were distinguished by increasing numbers of groups. I have to mention an American AA, Gordon Mc., who made a tremendous effort to pass the message into Central America, Mexico, Caribbean countries, Argentina, and Colombia. This effort was called the Caribbean crusade. The work of this man succeeded through the sharing of experience through letters, transmitting public information to authorities and professionals, and much more. In 1964 intergroup offices in Mexico City and Guadalajara were founded, and later in Tampico and Merida. Also in 1964, national congresses began to be held twice a year. In 1969 the first Mexican conference took place and in December of the same year our General Service Office was started. Since then, every four years our AA population has doubled. God has blessed us with one of the biggest demographic explosions in the AA world. Mexico has the second largest AA population after the U.S. It would be a lie if I told you that everything is okay. We have troubles, maybe because we AAs are troublesome -- or I should say, we Mexican AAs. In 1950, when the AA Traditions were approved, some Mexican AAs thought that they were made for the Anglo way of thinking, and in 1954 they started a movement called AMAR (Mexican Alcoholics in Recuperation Association). AA has good relations with them. In 1963 another movement began: CRAMAC (Rehabilitation Centers of Mexican Alcoholics Association). In 1974 several groups called 24 Horas (24 Hours) started up, working to give lodging and food to chronic and poor alcoholics. Around 1980 a separatist movement was formed, called Sección Mexico (Mexican Section). It was begun by some former members of the General Service Office. In 1985 this movement caused the separation of eight service areas. Mexico is celebrating its 50th Anniversary with great faith, as our members and groups are growing in numbers and in strength, experience, and hope. We are used to rowing against the current and in the war against alcoholism know that there are either a lot of battles to fight or a lot of bottles to drink. Fernando Q. Mexico City IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5779. . . . . . . . . . . . World Service Meeting From: arun_shelar2007 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2009 4:04:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Can anybody give me link to find out WSM final reports and for brief history of World Service Meeting? Arun IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5780. . . . . . . . . . . . Archives workshop in Pennsylvania Aug. 8 2009 From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 12:01:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII There will be an Archives Workshop in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania on Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009. Many local and not so local Archives, Archivists, AA Historians, AA History Lovers, and those interested in learning more about our history are invited to attend. It starts at 9 AM and runs till the afternoon. There is always room for many more. I will send more information as soon as it becomes available. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz (also going to National Archives Workshop -- Sept. 24-27th, 2009 Woodland Hills, in the Los Angeles area http://www.aanationalarchivesworkshop.com/ ) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5781. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Rowland Hazard in New Mexico From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 4:32:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I believe $15.00 plus $5.00 postage and handling, 52 pp, 8 1/2 x 11, numerous illustrations of pottery. - - - - From: corafinch@yahoo.com AAHL Message 5768 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5768 > > The latest issue of the Tularosa Basin Historical Society magazine, devoted to Rowland Hazard and his pottery factory, is now available. > > The name of the magazine is the "Pioneer," and it is available from the Society, phone number (575) 434-4438, email tbhs@zianet, snail mail Tularosa Basin Historical Society, 1301 N. White Sands Blvd., Alamogordo NM, 88310. > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5782. . . . . . . . . . . . Australian Archives publication From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 12:37:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A publication called "An Encyclopedia for Alcoholics Anonymous" has been produced by the Central Service Archives Department of AA Service Office in New South Wales, Australia. The Foreword by David W.(Penrith) states, "This book is intended to bring together in one place as much information, about the twelve step program, its history, events, lore and other information that may be of concern to people that are interested with the Alcoholics Anonymous philosophy. To record the people who pioneered the concepts of the Fellowship (both non-alcoholic and alcoholic) in the U.S.A. and Australia." I do not know the cost but the mailing address is: NSW Central Service Office 127 Edwin St. North Croydon, NSW, 2132 Australia I have looked over the book and it is an excellent history of A.A. 'Down Under.' My good friend Ron C., Australian Archivist and past Trustee, and David W., Co Archivist, have put the A to Z history together so that it is enjoyable for those new and old to AA History. The book is dedicated to "The Memory of Lois Wilson and Anne Smith, whose Love and Patience made the advent of Alcoholics Anonymous Possible." Many references to the letters of the Australian AA Archives are included. To those of you who do not know, the first meeting of A.A. in Australia was October 16, 1946. Australian A.A. was also responsible, along with a Philadelphian, Conor F. of Philadelphia, Pennsylvia, for the beginnings of AA in Europe: Ireland in 1946. Conor read an article by Father Tom Dunlea in the "Evening Mail" saying that AA was desperately needed in Ireland. After being told "there are no alcoholics in Ireland," Conor was given a "Brit" by the name of Sackville M. and was told by Dr. Moore of St. Patrick's Hospital (via Eva Jennings, a non-alcoholic social worker) that if he could get this man sober he could get anyone sober. Much thanks to A.A. in Australia for producing a wonderful and interesting history of A.A. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, PA. USA - - - - See Sackville M.'s story in the Big Book, "The Career Officer" (2nd edition p. 523, 3rd edition p. 517). For a short bio, see: http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5783. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Rowland Hazard in New Mexico From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2009 8:46:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Did Rowland Hazard die sober? So far as I know, there is no one alive who can answer that question from personal knowledge. His granddaughter in California was born in the last year of Rowland's life, after her own father's death; her mother, Rowland's daughter-in-law, died a few years ago. I have in any case been unable to get in touch with her. Rowland's surviving son Charles died in the 1990s -- his two other sons died in WW2, his daughter in 1954, her son (in any case born after his grandfather's death) was killed in Vietnam in 1967. Rowland's wife Helen survived him less than a year. Charles's son Rowland is, I believe, a doctor and teacher in Vermont, but even if he were contacted, I'm not at all sure he'd be able to help. Rowland III never joined AA so far as I know. He died at his office in December 1945, as you know. Since there are some indications that Rowland may have used alcohol as a way of getting in touch with the Spirit World (as with his late friend Charles Aldrich in 1933-34), and since he lost one son in 1944 and one in 1945, I myself think it likely he would have used alcohol (but possibly something else, given the southwestern connection) to try to communicate with them before he died in December 1945 -- but that's only my supposition. And in any case he might have been sober again, if only for a short while, when he died. I see no way of clearing the matter. Of course, if the question is, did he stay sober after he went to Jung (in 1926-8), we know the answer is no. If it is, did he stay sober after his work with the Oxford Group and the Businessman's Committee and Sam Shoemaker, the answer is uncertain, but probably no. But again, did he die sober? My guess is he hadn't had a drink for a while, but how long that while was, I have no way of knowing. - - - - > From: dolli@dr-rinecker.de > Subject: Re: Rowland Hazard in New Mexico > > Hi, I would like to know if Roland died sober? > I somehow heard that he died drunk and would > like the matter cleared. Dolores > - - - - Richard M. Dubiel, The Road to Fellowship http://hindsfoot.org/kDub1.html http://hindsfoot.org/kDub2.html p. 66 "We do know that Hazard did not remain sober throughout his life, and did drink again after 1934." p. 78 "Hazard’s later years seem to have been prosperous enough, although he never did join Alcoholics Anonymous.*** In 1936 he became a member of the Episcopal Church and remained active in several of its organizations. Throughout the latter part of his troubled life, Hazard relied on the fellowship of the Oxford Group (including activities such as his work with Ebby Thatcher in 1934) to aid and comfort him in his struggle with alcohol. It was fellowship that helped him even toward the end of his life, when he was being returned to New York after his 1936 binge." ***Note 185, p. 162 "The only dark spot occurred in August 1936 when Rowland had a serious drinking bout. A packet of correspondence of Rowland’s brother Thomas documents the binge in New Mexico and Rowland’s return trip to New York, see Thomas P. Hazard Papers, Series 2, Subseries 3: Rowland Hazard III files, RIHS. Stattler cites one letter that proposed enlisting the aid of an Oxford Grouper, Shep C. [Shep Cornell], to help Rowland." IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5784. . . . . . . . . . . . History of AA in the Philippines From: Patricia . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 9:46:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Does anyone have an account of the history of AA in the Philippines? thanks Patricia IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5785. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: World Service Meeting From: M.J. Johnson . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2009 12:40:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII An overview of WSM history is available here: http://www.aa-intergroup.org/cpc/art_worldsvc.html Not sure about the final reports... - - - - On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 4:04 AM, arun_shelar2007 wrote: > Can anybody give me link to find out WSM final > reports and for brief history of World Service > Meeting? > > Arun > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5786. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings From: Cindy Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2009 9:00:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Louis R. was a very important figure in our Area 59 history. He traveled the state in the early 60's--encouraging and facilitating the process of setting up the state service structure. He travelled with Ted Rothchild-who was then the Area delegate and Dick Caron. (Dick's importance in Pennsylvania AA history is a whole other story...perhaps Jared could chime in here! ) Lou became the Area 59 delegate for '66/'67, and was a personal friend of Bill W. Mary, his widow, is still VERY active in Al-Anon, and has 53 years, I believe (may be wrong on this one). Lou's son and grandson are also AA members. I interviewed her in the late 90's, and she donated some of Lou's papers and a tape of him speaking at the 16th Indiana State Convention in April, 1968. Some of the correspondence concerned a shameful incident where the committee of a Delaware State Convention (I think) wanted to deny a black speaker .... And this was the late '60's. Louis cited the 3rd Tradition -- the letters flew back-and-forth, with the result that Louis did end up speaking--but he was VERY hurt. I passed these papers and tape on to the then Eastern PA Archivist, but don't know where they are now. Cindy Miller Philadelphia, PA - - - - On Jun 15, 2009, at 4:36 PM, J. Lobdell wrote: > > Lou R., African-American, was elected Delegate > from Eastern PA to the General Service Conference > before 1970. His widow, Mary, may still be > alive (she was a frequent and always welcomed > Al-Anon speaker). The Archivist for Area 59 AA > (Eastern Pennsylvania) might have information > on Lou. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5787. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Australian Archives publication From: Fiona Dodd . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2009 6:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Conor F was not "given a Brit by the name of Sackville M." Conor F was introduced to Richard P by Dr Moore. Fiona IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5788. . . . . . . . . . . . Fr. Pfau and Bill W. trip to Mexico From: nuevenueve@ymail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/17/2009 1:23:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello Group: Is there any tracking or approximate working schedule of Bill W. and Fr.Pfau's visit to Mexico in 1948? Thanks. - - - - A quick answer from Glenn C: Fr. Pfau's autobiography (Prodigal Shepherd) unfortunately gives no information at all of where they went in Mexico. A researcher could make notes on that section of the book and probably narrow the time of the trip down to the specific month, and maybe even the part of the month, by process of elimination -- i.e., it had to be after certain events dated such-and-such (such as Fr. Pfau's first AA talk in Texas) but before certain other events dated such-and-such (such as other talks which he gave later that year). We're talking about the first real vacation that Fr. Pfau took (at the urging of his sponsor Doherty Sheerin) after he got sober. Fr. Pfau headed out to the west coast, took a wrong turn in Texas, and ended up being asked to speak in the AA meeting in the town in Texas where he stopped, exhausted, for the night. Fr. Pfau's talk was so successful, that it was the start of his career speaking to AA groups all over the U.S. and Canada. He did finally make it to California on that trip. That was where he met up with Bill W., and the two of them became good friends. Past that point (establishing the date in 1948 more precisely) the next step would be to check in the New York AA Archives, where there may well be letters and documents talking about where Bill W. was at that time in 1948. So, can anybody in the group help us out? Does anyone know about Bill W.'s travel schedule during this period? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5789. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/17/2009 9:53:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dick C. was the third Delegate from (Eastern) Pennsylvania, and while he is well-known in the field of rehabilitation and established his own rehab (which did not originally but now does bear his name), but I shall refer to him here as Dick C. His predecessors as Delegate, George R. of Jenkintown (chosen by Bill, I believe on the advice of John P. L., later Trustee 1957-61) and Aaron Burr B. of Bethlehem (chosen by Bill, I believe on the advice of Yev G.), were, as noted, chosen from the top down. Dick realized the importance of the 1954 Conference Action giving the right of election to what we now call the GSRs and in his mimeographed newsletter Chit Chat reminded the GSRs (then called GRs) of their right to choose the next Delegate, at a Meeting to be held at a place and time of his choosing (in Reading PA, his town, Nov 1954). He was duly elected, despite having (I believe) less than the recommended length of sobriety. At that time Bill W was still hopeful that the Area (as we now call it) centering on Harrisburg PA would be separated from (Eastern) Pennsylvania, centered on Philadelphia and containing Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton and Scranton-Wilkes-Barre. The new "Area" was apparently to comprise the seventeen current Districts in Eastern PA which were then in Area (we would call it District) 5 of the "State" of [Eastern] Pennsylvania (Western Pennsylvania was considered a separate "State"). But the Reading region would have been in the Harrisburg "Area" (as we now call it), and Dick wanted to be Delegate from the whole of (Eastern) Pennsylvania -- and he was, and Bill's desire for three Pennsylvania Areas goes unfulfilled to this day. Not only was Dick elected Delegate for 1955-56, but he was instrumental in the election of most of the delegates in the 1960s, including both Ted R. and Lou R. (and Paul O., who worked for him, and indeed just about every Delegate from Eastern PA until Lenore M. in 1971-2 -- I think those were her dates). Moreover, there are still active members of A.A. in Eastern PA who knew Dick C., including one who was once his sponsor. But of course Dick's also important for his rehab and his foundation. More later -- JL > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > From: cm53@earthlink.net > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:00:05 -0400 > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings > > Louis R. was a very important figure in our Area 59 history. He > traveled the state in the early 60's--encouraging and facilitating > the process of setting up the state service structure. He travelled > with Ted Rothchild-who was then the Area delegate and Dick Caron. > (Dick's importance in Pennsylvania AA history is a whole other > story...perhaps Jared could chime in here! ) > > Lou became the Area 59 delegate for '66/'67, and was a personal > friend of Bill W. Mary, his widow, is still VERY active in Al-Anon, > and has 53 years, I believe (may be wrong on this one). Lou's son and grandson are also AA members. > > I interviewed her in the late 90's, and she donated some of Lou's > papers and a tape of him speaking at the 16th Indiana State > Convention in April, 1968. > > Some of the correspondence concerned a shameful > incident where the committee of a Delaware State > Convention (I think) wanted to deny a black > speaker .... And this was the late '60's. Louis > cited the 3rd Tradition -- the letters flew > back-and-forth, with the result that Louis did > end up speaking--but he was VERY hurt. > > I passed these papers and tape on to the then Eastern PA Archivist, > but don't know where they are now. > > Cindy Miller > Philadelphia, PA > > - - - - > > On Jun 15, 2009, at 4:36 PM, J. Lobdell wrote: > > > > Lou R., African-American, was elected Delegate > > from Eastern PA to the General Service Conference > > before 1970. His widow, Mary, may still be > > alive (she was a frequent and always welcomed > > Al-Anon speaker). The Archivist for Area 59 AA > > (Eastern Pennsylvania) might have information > > on Lou. > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5790. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Early AA meeting formats From: Jim Brock . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/20/2009 2:14:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I recently heard a talk recorded at Cannes, France, Primary Purpose Group (June 2003?) where an intro that was described as the 'original' AA preamble was read. "We are gathered here because we are faced with the fact that we are powerless over alcohol. and unable to do anything about it without the help of a power greater than ourselves." I will transcribe it. Jim B. California Central Coast From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of victoria callaway Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:14 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Early AA meeting formats At our BB study tonite I was asked if I knew anything about early AA meeting formats and could I find out any info about them. Anyone have any info on this? thanks God bless vicki [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5791. . . . . . . . . . . . "People places things" From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/21/2009 9:45:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and things" come from? Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee Williams) "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5792. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Early AA meeting formats From: rick tompkins . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/21/2009 9:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Over time I've read and heard that AA's earliest meeting formats varied greatly but the intros, preambles, and readings were much shorter. Before the Big Book, a prayer was usually spoken by one of the group's members and then it went straight into discussion. After the Big Book was in use in Chicago, the prayer format was replaced by a short, silent Quiet Time---kinda simplified matters, didn't it? I've found a compelling early 1940s "preamble" from the Peoria, Illinois group that mixed the BB Preface and bits of links to God in it. It was an entire page long Typed single-spaced) and took over five minutes to read out loud. I wonder just how many 'preambles' were used around AA groups before the 1947 AA Grapevine's suggested text (also derived from the Preface). Probably dozens of them that were a kind of welcoming talk, with a few reported here at our egroup (Texas' comes to mind). Many groups read (and still read) from the first two pages of Chapter Three's "More About Alcoholism" and it's been previously reported here at AAhistorylovers that early California groups began the practice of reading the Steps through '.if He were sought' from "How It Works" ---the same as today. The "AA Thought For the Day" from the 24 Hours book stayed in use since it was distributed nationally (late 1950s prevalence) and is still in use here in Illinois at many meetings. AAWS' "Daily Reflections" may have replaced the 24 Hrs. readings in different parts of the country but it's unpredictable around here today for either. Did the General Service Conference approve the development of a second "Daily Reflections" this year? That reading will eventually be added to the pre-discussion mix. I heard a longtimer, who attended meetings in the New York area in the mid-1940s, share that the closed discussions were a kind of "check-in" reporting time with members sharing on any particular issues of their day (or their week). It was a kind of random sharing and there was always encouragement from all for both the sober AAs and the newcomers when relating to recovery. Members stuck to sharing experience and stayed away from blatant advice. Fortunately this still happens today at meetings I participate in, even when a meeting is topic-driven, speaker-led, or open to random sharing. And blessed we are as a Fellowship! No one ever seems to be a loss for words to add to any meeting's discussion, right? Also, the Lord's Prayer closed the earliest meetings around the U.S.---I see and appreciate this as a 'best practice' that continues today. Amusingly, and in my own sobriety, I've heard it said that "you're never late to an AA meeting unless you miss the Lord's Prayer." Rick, Illinois From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brock Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 1:15 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] Early AA meeting formats I recently heard a talk recorded at Cannes, France, Primary Purpose Group (June 2003?) where an intro that was described as the 'original' AA preamble was read. "We are gathered here because we are faced with the fact that we are powerless over alcohol. and unable to do anything about it without the help of a power greater than ourselves." I will transcribe it. Jim B. California Central Coast From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of victoria callaway Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:14 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Early AA meeting formats At our BB study tonite I was asked if I knew anything about early AA meeting formats and could I find out any info about them. Anyone have any info on this? thanks God bless vicki [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5793. . . . . . . . . . . . Big Book writing time line From: lambchopp@gmail.com> . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 8:03:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I am a member of the primary Purpose group in Lake Villa IL. We would like to know if Bill Wilson wrote "Bills Story" after the first draft of the book or before? Gratefully, Bill L Antioch, IL IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5794. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Early AA meeting formats From: Mike Barns . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 9:37:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII This sounds like the so-called "Texas Preamble" which opens: Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. We are gathered here because we are faced with the fact that we are powerless over alcohol, and are unable to do anything about it without the help of a Power greater than ourselves. We feel each person's religious convictions, if any, are his own affair, and the simple purpose of the program of AA is to show what may be done to enlist the aid of a Power greater than ourselves, regardless of what our individual conception of that Power may be. Mike Barns On Jun 22, 2009, at Jun 22, 2009 8:18 AM, AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com wrote: > "We are gathered here because we are faced with the fact that we are > powerless over alcohol. and unable to do anything about it without > the help > of a power greater than ourselves." > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5795. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 10:20:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing realizations." The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid people, places and things." The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion..." The Big Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been given the power to help others." Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, The FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. love+service John Lee Pittsburgh--- On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle wrote: From: Jon Markle Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "AAHistoryLovers" Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and things" come from? Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee Williams) "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5796. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book writing time line From: barefootbill@optonline.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 2:08:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The first two chapters written for the Big Book were "There Is A Solution" (originally chapter 1) & "Bill's Story" (originally chapter 2). These were the only two chapters we had in the beginning & were the two chapters shown to Harpers Publishing before AA chose to publish the book themselves. These two chapters were probably written in late May or early June of 1938 & the rest of the BB chapters probably started being written in September 1938. Just Love, Barefoot Bill (from NJ) & Bill S. (from CT) ----- Original Message ----- From: lambchopp@gmail.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:19 pm Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Big Book writing time line To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > I am a member of the primary Purpose group in Lake Villa IL. We > would like to know if Bill Wilson wrote "Bills Story" after the > first draft of the book or before? > > Gratefully, Bill L > Antioch, IL > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5797. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 2:29:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The phrase can be found in the Al-Anon literature specifically the ODATT Daily Meditation Book. It does not come from the much maligned treatment industry! Sincerely, Jim F. --- On Mon, 6/22/09, johnlawlee@yahoo.com wrote: From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 7:20 AM The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing realizations. " The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid people, places and things." The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion... " The Big Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been given the power to help others." Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, The FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. love+service John Lee Pittsburgh-- - On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle wrote: From: Jon Markle Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "AAHistoryLovers" Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and things" come from? Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee Williams) "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5798. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 3:20:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The notion that we are "powerless over people places and things" comes directly from Al-Anon and has nothing to do with avoiding anything. It is all about acceptance of other people's, things or situations as autonomous. A similiar concept promoted by Al-Anon is known as "the three C's." That is I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it. It is the conclusion that one reaches when one aknowledges their limitations and finally understands that certain things have to be left in God's hands. You could say it is the realization that I am not God and that pretending otherwise is just inviting another lesson in futility. Basically it's about letting GO and letting God, rather than playing God. Jim F. --- On Mon, 6/22/09, johnlawlee@yahoo.com wrote: From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 7:20 AM The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing realizations. " The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid people, places and things." The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion... " The Big Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been given the power to help others." Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, The FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. love+service John Lee Pittsburgh-- - On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle wrote: From: Jon Markle Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "AAHistoryLovers" Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and things" come from? Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee Williams) "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5799. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: Sally Brown . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 3:08:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Has anyone checked the Al-Anon archives? Al-Anon is where I first heard "can't control people, places, and things" over 30 years ago, and where it's common in this area. I was somewhat surprised in fairly recent years to hear it suddenly being used in our local AA meetings. I just figured it was borrowed from Al-Anon. A fairly cursory look through Al-Anon's Big Book, How Al-Anon Works, and their meditation book, One Day At a Time, however, was not definitive. Maybe someone on AAHistoryLovers is knowledgeable about our sister organization's archives. Rev Sally Brown coauthor with David R Brown: Board Certified Clinical Chaplain A Biography of Mrs. Marty Mann United Church of Christ The First Lady of Alcoholics Anonymous 1470 Sand Hill Rd, 309 www.sallyanddavidbrown.com Palo Alto, CA 94304 Phone/Fax: 650 325 5258 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5800. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: History of sponsorship From: allan_gengler . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 3:45:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics Anonymous (The Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the rule, from the beginning, and not something added later. Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped a few times. But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored Bill D., etc. In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing from modern AA. Also in that book it's described how the group got together and pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to sponsor him. I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it was truly possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, you would need to take the advice in A Vision For You and seek out drunks to form a fellowship, thus becoming a sponsor. I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional and how sober drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for someone to ask them. Or even the notion of being told "you must get a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily and man decided to be my sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision in the beginning. --Al --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Charlie C wrote: > > I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned. > > My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct? > > Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group! > > Charlie C. > IM = route20guy > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5801. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: "People places things" From: Carole Seddon . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 5:36:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII It is part of Al Anon for their first step, I believe. Carole S From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johnlawlee@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:20 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing realizations." The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid people, places and things." The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion..." The Big Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been given the power to help others." Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, The FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. love+service John Lee Pittsburgh--- On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle > wrote: From: Jon Markle > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "AAHistoryLovers" > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and things" come from? Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee Williams) "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5802. . . . . . . . . . . . Wino Joe? From: doci333 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 6:21:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi All, I heard from the Joe and Charlie Tapes, mention "Wino Joe's" list of being an alcoholic. Joe mentioned only 2 or three from this humorous list. Anyone have the list. AA Love and Hugs, Dave G. Illinois IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5803. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Early AA meeting formats From: tomper87 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 6:46:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The committee considered the request to develop a second volume of Daily Reflections and took no action. "Did the General Service Conference approve the development of a second "Daily Reflections" this year? That reading will eventually be added to the pre-discussion mix." IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5804. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book writing time line From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/22/2009 10:34:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Bill wrote two chapters of the book to "shop around" and see if there would be interest among publishers. They were Chapter 1 "There is a Solution: and Chapter 2 "Bill's Story" There were two versions of Bill's Story prior to the version that went into the original manuscript. The second version which is quite similar to the final version can be found on the web pages of Area 44 archives. This is a pictorial version that was produced by the Big Book Study Group of South Orange, New Jersey. Enjoy! http://www.nnjaa.org/area44/pdf/archives_bills_story.pdf --- On Mon, 6/22/09, wrote: From: Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Big Book writing time line To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:03 PM I am a member of the primary Purpose group in Lake Villa IL. We would like to know if Bill Wilson wrote "Bills Story" after the first draft of the book or before? Gratefully, Bill L Antioch, IL [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5805. . . . . . . . . . . . AA ''not in breach of law'' on minors From: Fiona Dodd . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 1:17:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII AA 'not in breach of law' on minors CARL O'BRIEN Social Affairs Correspondent Tue, Jun 23, 2009 GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS have moved to ease fears that the Alcoholics Anonymous organisation is in breach of child protection law by allowing under-18s to attend its meetings. The AA says it received legal advice recently which concluded that its meetings were not suitable locations for teenagers on foot of child protection legislation and the Children First guidelines. The organisation, which has 13,000 members across the State, says minors as young as 14 and 15 regularly turn up at meetings. In correspondence with the Department of Health, officials from AA appealed for laws or guidelines to be relaxed to allow minors to be admitted. "Alcoholics Anonymous groups throughout Ireland do not wish to turn these minors away. Surely some exception could be made for an organisation such as the AA," it said. "Maybe there is a need to amend legislation, or for a special order to allow minors to attend meetings to be granted." Following a parliamentary question by Ennis-based Fine Gael TD Joe Carey, officials from the Department of Health met with the AA to discuss the issue and concluded they were not operating in breach of any law in this area. The precise detail of the advice given by the department was not available yesterday, while the AA typically avoids commenting on issues in the public domain. Much of the concern raised by those in AA centred on whether Garda vetting or training of staff was mandatory, according to informed sources. However, the Children First guidelines on child protection are not on a statutory footing, while much Garda vetting outside of the formal childcare area takes place on a voluntary basis. The AA's concern over how best to accommodate young people comes at a time of rising concern over alcohol abuse by teenagers. Recent research found that Irish teenagers aged 15 to 17 are the fifth highest drinkers out of 35 countries surveyed in Europe. A report by the HSE last year found that chronic alcohol conditions had increased among young adults. The Alcohol-Related Harm in Ireland report by Dr Ann Hope for the HSE's alcohol implementation group, also pointed out that treatment centres were recording many new cases, particularly of younger people who were being treated for problem alcohol use for the first time. Heavy use of alcohol during teenage years can impair brain development and cause memory loss, according to health experts, while hospital consultants say they are seeing a dramatic increase in the number of liver damage cases among young people. There are also significant risks for those who start drinking before age 15. They are four times more likely to develop alcohol dependency than those who wait until 21, seven times more likely to be in a car crash and 11 times more likely to suffer injuries. C 2009 The Irish Times [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5806. . . . . . . . . . . . Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship From: John R Reid . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 3:19:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Please refer to page 100 of the Big Book in regards to working with the new person ----- Original Message ----- From: allan_gengler To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:45 AM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: History of sponsorship Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics Anonymous (The Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the rule, from the beginning, and not something added later. Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped a few times. But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored Bill D., etc. In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing from modern AA. Also in that book it's described how the group got together and pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to sponsor him. I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it was truly possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, you would need to take the advice in A Vision For You and seek out drunks to form a fellowship, thus becoming a sponsor. I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional and how sober drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for someone to ask them. Or even the notion of being told "you must get a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily and man decided to be my sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision in the beginning. --Al --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Charlie C wrote: > > I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned. > > My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct? > > Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group! > > Charlie C. > IM = route20guy > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5807. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: History of sponsorship From: John R Reid . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 3:17:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Please refer to 100 ----- Original Message ----- From: allan_gengler To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:45 AM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: History of sponsorship Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics Anonymous (The Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the rule, from the beginning, and not something added later. Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped a few times. But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored Bill D., etc. In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing from modern AA. Also in that book it's described how the group got together and pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to sponsor him. I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it was truly possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, you would need to take the advice in A Vision For You and seek out drunks to form a fellowship, thus becoming a sponsor. I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional and how sober drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for someone to ask them. Or even the notion of being told "you must get a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily and man decided to be my sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision in the beginning. --Al --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Charlie C wrote: > > I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned. > > My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct? > > Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group! > > Charlie C. > IM = route20guy > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5808. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 2:11:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I don't want to debate this here. (I have, obiously a different experience ). I just want to find out where or how it got into the rooms of AA. It's not in the Big Book. I don't think it's in any of AA's other literature or textbooks, either, but I can't say that with complete authority -- yet. Thanks. Hugs for the trudge Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 If it appears I was all thumbs when I wrote this, I was! Sent from my iPhone. On Jun 22, 2009, at 3:20 PM, James Flynn wrote: > The notion that we are "powerless over people places and things" > comes directly from Al-Anon and has nothing to do with avoiding > anything. It is all about acceptance of other people's, things or > situations as autonomous. A similiar concept promoted by Al-Anon is > known as "the three C's." That is I didn't cause it, I can't > control it and I can't cure it. It is the conclusion that one > reaches when one aknowledges their limitations and finally > understands that certain things have to be left in God's hands. You > could say it is the realization that I am not God and that > pretending otherwise is just inviting another lesson in futility. > Basically it's about letting GO and letting God, rather than playing > God. > > Jim F. > > --- On Mon, 6/22/09, johnlawlee@yahoo.com > wrote: > > > From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 7:20 AM > > > > > > > > > > The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text > of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. > It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the > AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the > three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing > realizations. " The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no > longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." > The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and > converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over > people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid > people, places and things." > The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic > literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to > the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any > scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is > doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion... " The Big > Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page > 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been > given the power to help others." > Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. > The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, > The FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE > powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further > indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the > Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help > others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always > be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. > love+service > John Lee > Pittsburgh-- - On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle > wrote: > > From: Jon Markle > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" > To: "AAHistoryLovers" > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM > > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > things" come from? > > Hugs for the trudge. > > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > Williams) > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5809. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: "People places things" From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 6:36:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Daily Relections January 3rd, page 11 "Iv'e learned that I do not have the power and control I once thought I had. I am powerless over what people think about me. I am powerless over having just missed the bus. I am powerless over how other people work (or don't work) the Steps. But I've also learned I am not powerless over some things. I am not powerless over my attitudes. I am not powerless over negativity. I am not powerless over assuming responsibility for my own recovery." --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Carole Seddon wrote: From: Carole Seddon Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "'AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com'" Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 2:36 PM It is part of Al Anon for their first step, I believe. Carole S From: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of johnlawlee@yahoo. com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:20 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing realizations. " The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid people, places and things." The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion... " The Big Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been given the power to help others." Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, The FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. love+service John Lee Pittsburgh-- - On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle > wrote: From: Jon Markle > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "AAHistoryLovers" > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and things" come from? Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee Williams) "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5810. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: History of sponsorship From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 6:49:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The impression that sponsorship is optional might come from the fact that the AA literature (especially the the 12 Steps and and 12 Traditions chapters on steps 4 & 5) make it clear that one does not necessarily have to take the fifth step with a sponsor but may elect to choose, a close mouthed friend, a spiritual adviser, a psychologist or ever a total stranger. Also in the book Living Sober (in the section that answers questions on sponsorship) it states that not everyone in AA has had a sponsor. Therefore some might conclude that since a sponsor is not absolutely required to work the steps and since not everyone in AA has had a sponsor that sponsorship must be optional. (Though not highly recommended) Sincerely, Jim F. --- On Mon, 6/22/09, allan_gengler wrote: From: allan_gengler Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: History of sponsorship To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:45 PM Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics Anonymous (The Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the rule, from the beginning, and not something added later. Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped a few times. But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored Bill D., etc. In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing from modern AA. Also in that book it's described how the group got together and pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to sponsor him. I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it was truly possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, you would need to take the advice in A Vision For You and seek out drunks to form a fellowship, thus becoming a sponsor. I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional and how sober drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for someone to ask them. Or even the notion of being told "you must get a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily and man decided to be my sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision in the beginning. --Al --- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com, Charlie C wrote: > > I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned. > > My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct? > > Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group! > > Charlie C. > IM = route20guy > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5811. . . . . . . . . . . . Mayflower Hotel to Sieberling Gatehouse.....transportation? From: Gregory Harris . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 7:55:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello all There is some discussion in our local group...this is along the lines of trivia but some of us are curious....does anyone know HOW Bill got from the hotel to the Gatehouse (i.e. bus..cab..or what?) Thanks Greg H. in Illinois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5812. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: Cindy Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 8:51:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From "Paths to Recovery-al-Anon's Steps, Traditions & Concepts" , p. 9 "As we look back on our lives, we are asked to acknowledge our powerlessness over alcohol, the alcoholic, and every person and event we sought to control by our own willpower.. By letting go of the illusion of control over other people, their actions and their addiction to alcohol, we find an enormous burden is lifted and we begin to discover the freedom and the power we do possess--the power to define and live our on lives." -cm `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> On Jun 22, 2009, at 5:36 PM, Carole Seddon wrote: > > > It is part of Al Anon for their first step, I believe. > > Carole S > > From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > johnlawlee@yahoo.com > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:20 AM > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" > > The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text of > Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. > It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the > AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the > three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing > realizations." The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no > longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." > The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and > converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over > people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid > people, places and things." > The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic > literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to > the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any > scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is > doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion..." The Big > Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page > 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been > given the power to help others." > Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. The > FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, The > FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE > powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further > indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the > Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help > others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always > be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. > love+service > John Lee > Pittsburgh--- On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle > > wrote: > > From: Jon Markle 40mac.com>> > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" > To: "AAHistoryLovers" > 40yahoogroups.com>> > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM > > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > things" come from? > > Hugs for the trudge. > > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > Williams) > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5813. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Wino Joe? From: elg3_79 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 11:27:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A great recording of Joe can be found at www.xa-speakers.org -- I have the link as http://xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=290 or search "wino" and he'll pop up .. (My favorite of Joe's "questions" was "Have you ever had malfunction of the zipper?" .. Then after the laughter subsides, he says wistfully "They used to call me 'Rusty' ..") Y'all's in service Ted G. --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "doci333" wrote: > > Hi All, > > I heard from the Joe and Charlie Tapes, mention "Wino Joe's" list of being an alcoholic. Joe mentioned only 2 or three from this humorous list. > > Anyone have the list. > > AA Love and Hugs, > Dave G. > Illinois > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5814. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: bridgetsbuddy . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 9:39:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment." ("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No? --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Jon Markle wrote: > > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > things" come from? > > Hugs for the trudge. > > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > Williams) > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5815. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: History of sponsorship From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 9:39:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Sponsorship like everything else in the AA program is optional (including misery). Also not everyone believes that the sponsor/sponsee relationship should gone on indefinately or that an AA member should be permitted to become overly dependant on their sponsor. Below are a couple of interesting passages taken from AAWS's Questions and Answers on Sponsorship Pamphlet.  âTo join some organizations, you must have a sponsor - a person who vouches for you, presents you as being suitable for membership. This is definitely not the case with A.A. Anyone who has a desire to stop drinking is welcome to join us!â  How can a sponsor handle an overdependent newcomer? In the first days of sobriety, a newcomer is sometimes so bewildered and frightened - or so mentally fuzzy and physically weak - that he or she needs to be taken to each meeting and perhaps helped in making personal decisions. But such utter dependence on the sponsor, when carried past the earliest stages of recovery, often becomes damaging to both parties. It has already been pointed out that we stay sober through reliance on the A.A. program, not on any one member, so the newcomerâs chances in this situation may not be very good. And the sponsor may either feel harried by constant, unreasonable demands, or feel flattered and let the ego build up dangerously. How can this dilemma be solved without leaving the newcomer disheartened? Supposedly, the sponsor has been seeing that the newcomer meets many other A.A.s; maybe now is the time to redouble the effort, seeking out those likely to be extra congenial. If this tactful gambit fails, some sponsors have tried a direct approach, talking over the problem frankly with the newcomer. And if even this has no effect, the sponsor's best solution may be to say, firmly and kindly, that he or she will no longer be available any time the newcomer wishes - but will keep in touch, with an occasional friendly call. Now it is up to the newcomer. One course is to find another sponsor. Or the newcomer may have achieved enough inner strength without realizing it, and can now go on to the next stage, substitute other kinds of A.A. friendship for sponsorship, start working the program in his or her own way, and take on personal responsibility in everyday life.  When and how does the sponsor let the newcomer go? Usually the relationship does not really end at any definite point. Without any discussion, it just changes gradually as the newcomer grows in A.A. A wise sponsor is delighted when the new member begins to take initiative in making a widening circle of friends, becomes active in the group, and extends the hand of welcome to the latest newcomers. A successful sponsor-newcomer partnership is a special sort of bond, remembered gratefully on each side, even if the two no longer are close. But it may also develop into a lasting friendship, and when it does, both partners have been heard to say, "Now we sponsor each other."  From the AA Pamphlet Questions and Answers on Sponsorship  --- On Mon, 6/22/09, allan_gengler wrote: From: allan_gengler Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: History of sponsorship To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:45 PM Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics Anonymous (The Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the rule, from the beginning, and not something added later. Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped a few times. But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored Bill D., etc. In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing from modern AA. Also in that book it's described how the group got together and pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to sponsor him. I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it was truly possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, you would need to take the advice in A Vision For You and seek out drunks to form a fellowship, thus becoming a sponsor. I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional and how sober drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for someone to ask them. Or even the notion of being told "you must get a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily and man decided to be my sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision in the beginning. --Al --- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com, Charlie C wrote: > >   I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned. >  >   My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct? >  >   Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group! > > Charlie C. > IM = route20guy > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5816. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: History of sponsorship From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 1:59:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Although the word "sponsor" or "sponsorship" does not appear in the first 164 pages of the Big Book, the whole chapter on "Working with others" certainly very well defines it. Perhaps the only reason the word was not used is that the membership at the time simply did not use that word/label as something associated with AA. "Sponsor" had a completely different meaning back then. And it would have been foreign, even conflicting, with the basic concept of our program at the time. Today, we know it differently. And it fits the description found in the Big Book, "Working with Others". However, not long after the Big Book was published, another text was written, which DOES use the word and clearly by then, it was in common use and application. It is a part of the AA program that is not only "suggested" but essentially, a "must" if we want the full benefits of real recovery. Only those who are isolationists think otherwise. IMO. Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee Williams) "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) On Jun 23, 2009, at 3:17 AM, John R Reid wrote: > Please refer to 100 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: allan_gengler > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:45 AM > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: History of sponsorship > > > > > > Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics > Anonymous (The Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the > rule, from the beginning, and not something added later. > > Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped > a few times. But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland > Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored > Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored > Bill D., etc. > > In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just > sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they > were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even > attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room > treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing > from modern AA. > > Also in that book it's described how the group got together and > pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to > get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching > his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus > driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The > group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to > sponsor him. > > I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it > was truly possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, > you would need to take the advice in A Vision For You and seek out > drunks to form a fellowship, thus becoming a sponsor. > > I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional > and how sober drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for > someone to ask them. Or even the notion of being told "you must get > a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily and man decided to be my > sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision in the > beginning. > > --Al > > --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Charlie C > wrote: >> >> I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed >> here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's >> 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing >> the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older >> members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither >> place is a sponsor mentioned. >> >> My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA >> practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is >> this correct? >> >> Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know >> it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the >> Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the >> exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any >> interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? >> Thanks, I learn so much from this group! >> >> Charlie C. >> IM = route20guy >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5817. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Mayflower Hotel to Sieberling Gatehouse.....transportation? From: barefootbill@optonline.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 3:57:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I had asked the same question to Ray G., archivist at Dr. Bob's House & Ray said that Bill probably walked to Henrietta's (about three & a half miles). After talking to Dr. Bob, Bill was offered a ride back to the Mayflower but said he would rather walk. Just Love, Barefoot Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Gregory Harris Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:14 pm Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Mayflower Hotel to Sieberling Gatehouse.....transportation? To: aahistorylovers@yahoogroups.com > Hello all > There is some discussion in our local group...this is along the > lines of trivia but some of us are curious....does anyone know > HOW Bill got from the hotel to the Gatehouse (i.e. bus..cab..or > what?) Thanks > Greg H. in Illinois > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5818. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Wino Joe? From: Wesley Brauer . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 6:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dear Dave, I first heard " Wino Joe's " recording at a meeting in Tullahoma Tenn. I remember laughing at that list but for the life of me I cannot recall it .Itr was a great lead ! Wes ________________________________ From: doci333 To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:21:37 PM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Wino Joe? Hi All, I heard from the Joe and Charlie Tapes, mention "Wino Joe's" list of being an alcoholic. Joe mentioned only 2 or three from this humorous list. Anyone have the list. AA Love and Hugs, Dave G. Illinois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5819. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: t . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/24/2009 12:57:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII here are a few examples of this phrase that I have run across. All but the first are from the AA Grapevine I'll paste the whole paragraph [not whole article though] so the phrase can be seen in the context it was used. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----\ ----------------------- from "As Bill Sees It" [page/reading 251] "Are you really placing recovery first, or are you making it contingent upon other people, places, or circumstances? You may find it ever so much better to face the music right where you are now, and, with the help of the A.A. program, win through. Before you make a decision, weigh it in these terms." LETTER, 1949 ---------------------- AA Grapevine, August 1971 from article titled "Now I Want Myself" by F.H., Chicago, Ill. AA has given me keen insight into my limitations, and it enables me each day to remove myself from people, places, and things that tend to threaten my sobriety. Since being in AA, I have gained more friends than I could ever have imagined, friends who sincerely care about me and my welfare. I have one friend in particular, whom I call my guardian angel. Recently, I was in an automobile accident that almost cost me the use of my writing hand, and she encouraged me to write. ---------------------- AA Grapevine, June 1978 from a letter by D. H. from San Francisco, Calif.: When are we going to learn to be responsible for our own feelings? Let's grow up and stop blaming "people, places, and things" for our feelings. ---------------------- AA Grapevine, July 1981 from an article titled "Steps to Awareness" by T.J., Houston, Tex. The First Step gave me my first step in identity. I had always looked outside myself — for my name, for the answer to all my needs. I looked to people, places, and things and, of course, to booze. Ironically, the alcohol I used to find answers gave me the first step in identity — I am an alcoholic. ---------------------- AA Grapevine, September 1981 from an article titled "Action Begins at Home" by C.A., Houston, Tex. The thought of spending hours and hours with me, just me, threw me into a terrifying, gut-wrenching panic. Alone within my four walls, I finally had to face the fact that in all those months of staying busy, I had taken no real action at all. I had completed tasks, even AA tasks like a Fourth and Fifth Step and a daily Tenth Step, but I had done them as a child does homework to avoid getting in trouble with his teacher at school. I finally realized that I had used constant activity, the distraction of people, places, and things, to avoid bumping into myself. ---------------------- Grapevine, February 1983 from an article titled "Acceptance" by E.B., Dover, Del. intro states: She finally stopped blaming people, places, and things for her drinking and in the article: Only this time, I realized I was drinking because I wanted to and not because of any other people, places, or things. I could finally see the truth of what I had been told so many times: We get drunk because we take that first drink, not for any other reason. My emotions finally caught up with my intellect, and the two merged for a short time. ---------------------- Grapevine, July 1984 from an article titled "Sobriety Is an Inside Job" by L.P., Huntsville, Tex. After several months in prison, my attitude toward people, places, things, and ideas was still very poor a lot of times. I hid this as best I could. The AA program was getting into a lot of areas of my life — what a revelation! Now another action step was required, because I had become more conscious of yet another character defect after these few months of youthful sobriety. ---------------------- Grapevine, March 1988 from a letter by E. B. of Wentzville, Mo.: As I read the November issue on sponsorship, I felt the usual reactions which I feel when I read the Grapevine: I agree with this person, this person is way off base, but I guess it works for them, etc. However, my overall feeling was one of indifference. I didn't have a lot of interest in an issue on sponsorship because there was no direct connection to my program. After all, I had gone by the book. Shortly after treatment I got a sponsor who helped me through the Steps and helped me keep in balance when people, places, and things started to become my higher power. I always appreciated him very much and didn't take him for granted. We saw each other once a week and I called him once a week. On the other side of the coin my few attempts at sponsorship were disappointing. As you can see, the issue didn't apply to me since my little world was all neat and tidy. Then I got a phone call from a friend in the Fellowship last Saturday. My sponsor had died suddenly of a heart attack. I had never in my life had to deal with such a loss. The immediate feeling of aloneness was hard to bear. ---------------------- AA Grapevine, May 1989 from an article titled "Bingo Card of Life" by Joseph O., Meade, Md. I was close to being chaptered out of the Army with a bad conduct discharge. I had two article fifteens, one court-martial, seventeen days AWOL, thirty days' stockade time, and barely six months in the Army. Never mind the countless jobs I'd lost on the outside and my two alcohol-related civilian convictions. Drinking wasn't my problem; it was people, places and things. I wasn't sick — everyone else was. I wasn't ready for the First Step. I couldn't admit my powerlessness over alcohol or the unmanageability in my life. ---------------------- AA Grapevine, April 1994 from an article title "Time for Transition" by Annemarie M., Raynham, Mass. I'm in an entirely new professional setting now. It has not been dull. I don't drink and I go to AA meetings. I'm even more aware of just how powerless I am over other people, places, and things. Change has challenged me to turn more than ever to my home group, my sponsor, my service work in AA, my sponsees, the Steps, Traditions, and Concepts. To the God of my understanding, asking only for knowledge of his will for me . . . and the power to carry that out. ---------------------- AA Grapevine, December 1995 from an article titled "Singleness of Purpose" by Lynn J., Saint John, N.B. When I first came into the program, I didn't understand anything about the disease of alcoholism and how it had made my life unmanageable. I thought that people, places, and things were the real problems. It took AA members with good long-term sobriety to help me get the focus back on me. When newcomers come in talking about outside issues, it's my responsibility to keep things on track in the same loving and careful way that others used to walk me through my early sobriety. ---------------------- Grapevine, January 1997 from an article titled "A Powerful Assignment" by Ben N., White Plains, New York Nervous? Yes, I was. As the phone was ringing, I rehearsed what I was going to say. But I was already quite proud of what I knew that I knew about the First Step. Then Vince answered. Everything got jumbled up but he put me at ease and I began to explain the First Step to him. I told him about the unmanageability — that my life had become very small; everything reduced to shoebox size. There wasn't very much in my life and no room for people. Then I launched into a dissertation on powerlessness. I really couldn't wait to get to this. I mentioned how we were powerless over people, places, and things. On and on I went, giving various examples — this was a full-blown, definitely AA-grounded, exposition. I waited for Vince to tell me how wonderfully I'd mastered the Step. I was ready to swell with pride. Then, in a soft voice he said: "It says 'powerless over alcohol.' " ------------------------------ AA Grapevine, April 1997 from an article titled "From Two-Stepping to Twelve-Stepping" by John M., Santa Barbara, California I learned from Al-Anon and private therapy that I'm powerless not only over alcohol, but also people, places, and things. ------------------------------ Grapevine, July 1997 from an article titled "EVERYTHING TO GAIN AND NOTHING TO LOSE" by Niurka R., Houston, Texas I've been in and out of several juvenile and adult penal institutions. I always made resolutions to change and never return. At the age of eighteen attempted to attend AA meetings in prison to change my life around and combat my alcoholism, but there was no sincerity in my heart. was only doing it for my mother and to please other people; it wasn't for myself. When I was released I went back to the old people, places, and things that caused me to pay so much. I still viewed the drinking life as being fun. I was reincarcerated again at the age of twenty. I've been here now for sixteen months. This time I've had an opportunity to sit and take a personal inventory of my life. I came to the conclusion that I want to change and need to change if I am to live. I was never more serious about anything in my life. I've started attending AA meetings and substance abuse meetings, and reading my Big Book every day. ------------------------------ AA Grapevine, September 1997 from an article titled "Reintroduced To Myself" by Jody B., New Bern, North Carolina The seed of AA was there, and on mornings when I hurt physically and didn't remember the night before, I'd wonder: should I give AA a fair shot? For six months I'd pull a few days together, then celebrate with a drink. I really felt as though I was going crazy. I was afraid to believe in a higher power and I continued downhill, never remembering the night before, still going to AA while comparing my way out. I was constitutionally incapable of being honest. The law brought me to my bottom and I decided to give AA an honest try. At twenty-three months sober, I had changed people, places, and things, gotten a sponsor, and worked Steps One through Five. I was doing the things suggested but I still felt alone and didn't know myself. ------------------------------ Jon Markle wrote: I don't want to debate this here. (I have, obviously a different experience ). I just want to find out where or how it got into the rooms of AA. It's not in the Big Book. I don't think it's in any of AA's other literature or textbooks, either, but I can't say that with complete authority -- yet. Thanks. Hugs for the trudge Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 From: Jon Markle Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "AAHistoryLovers" Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and things" come from? Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5820. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 8:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Just to update some research on this question. I looked up the suggested references given here so far, for Al-anon and NA. I do not find that this concept "powerless over people places and things" is founded in either of those two 12-step programs referred to here in the answers given so far. Certainly not Al-anon, and certainly not NA. Those references have to do with something else. Any other suggestions? Thanks. Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee Williams) "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) On Jun 23, 2009, at 2:11 AM, Jon Markle wrote: > I don't want to debate this here. (I have, obiously a different > experience ). > > I just want to find out where or how it got into the rooms of AA. > > It's not in the Big Book. I don't think it's in any of AA's other > literature or textbooks, either, but I can't say that with complete > authority -- yet. > > Thanks. > > Hugs for the trudge > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > If it appears I was all thumbs when I wrote this, I was! Sent from > my iPhone. > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 3:20 PM, James Flynn wrote: > >> The notion that we are "powerless over people places and things" >> comes directly from Al-Anon and has nothing to do with avoiding >> anything. It is all about acceptance of other people's, things or >> situations as autonomous. A similiar concept promoted by Al-Anon is >> known as "the three C's." That is I didn't cause it, I can't >> control it and I can't cure it. It is the conclusion that one >> reaches when one aknowledges their limitations and finally >> understands that certain things have to be left in God's hands. >> You could say it is the realization that I am not God and that >> pretending otherwise is just inviting another lesson in futility. >> Basically it's about letting GO and letting God, rather than >> playing God. >> >> Jim F. >> >> --- On Mon, 6/22/09, johnlawlee@yahoo.com >> wrote: >> >> >> From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com >> Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" >> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 7:20 AM >> >> >> The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text >> of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. >> It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the >> AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the >> three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing >> realizations. " The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no >> longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." >> The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and >> converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over >> people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid >> people, places and things." >> The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic >> literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to >> the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any >> scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is >> doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion... " The Big >> Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page >> 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been >> given the power to help others." >> Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. >> The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, >> The FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE >> powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further >> indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the >> Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help >> others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll >> always be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. >> love+service >> John Lee >> Pittsburgh-- - On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle >> wrote: >> >> From: Jon Markle >> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" >> To: "AAHistoryLovers" >> Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM >> >> Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and >> things" come from? >> >> Hugs for the trudge. >> >> Jon (Raleigh) >> 9/9/82 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5821. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill and Ebby Picture From: momaria33772 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 1:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I am looking for a picture of Bill and Ebby lying on the grass. I remember seeing this and can't seem to remember where. can someone give me a steer? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5822. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Re: "People places things" From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 5:50:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The inquiry comes from the previous message concerning the validity of page Dr. Paul's quote from page 417. The answer: The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut directions are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two personal experiences." The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions. Bob S. www.4dgroups.org ================================================================= From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bridgetsbuddy Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things" What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment." ("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No? --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com , Jon Markle wrote: > > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > things" come from? > > Hugs for the trudge. > > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > Williams) > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5823. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/24/2009 6:27:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The phrase, "powerless over people, places and things" is not in the ODATT . . . at least I can't find it in my copy. Can you site the page for me, if you found such reference . . . The concept of not having power over another human being has to do with control issues and detachment skills in Al-anon as applied to making someone else stop drinking -- which converts to "powerless over alcohol", but has nothing or little to do with the phrase I'm trying to trace, "Powerless over people places and things." That specific phrase and concept is what I am attempting to trace, for origin and how it got accepted as "gospel" in AA meetings. Thanks. Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82 "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee Williams) "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) On Jun 22, 2009, at 2:29 PM, James Flynn wrote: > The phrase can be found in the Al-Anon literature specifically the > ODATT Daily Meditation Book. It does not come from the much > maligned treatment industry! > > Sincerely, Jim F. > > - IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5824. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/24/2009 7:12:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII My . . . thanks for all that hard work. Unfortunately, concrete evidence of the phrase "powerless over people places and things" is still very illusive. The phrase / concept I'm trying to trace is *POWERLESS OVER PEOPLE PLACES AND THINGS" . . . not just the words/phrase, "people places and things". There's a big difference. In fact almost all of these quotes are in contexts that appear to reference empowerment . . . not powerlessness . . . and the emphasis is on "over alcohol" with regard to "powerlessness" . . . The only one that did directly reference the phrase, Grapevine article April 1994, the writer seems to contradict herself . . . as being powerless over people places and things, then through prayer, becoming empowered . . . I guess the whole article there would clarify. But, as this quote stands, it's a weak argument at best. More indicative of the error of quoting such a thing in an AA meeting as "gospel". It has no reference to any AA material at all. Just that one person's opinion which upon thoughtful reflection, is obviously confused. The quote I really latched on to, as one might suspect : > "Then I launched into a dissertation on > powerlessness. I really couldn't wait to get to this. I mentioned > how we > were powerless over people, places, and things. On and on I went, > giving > various examples — this was a full-blown, definitely AA-grounded, > exposition. I waited for Vince to tell me how wonderfully I'd mastered > the Step. I was ready to swell with pride. Then, in a soft voice he > said: "It says 'powerless over alcohol.' " Another couple of quotes seems to suggest agreement with some contributors here that it comes out of therapy or treatment. I dispute that claim as unfounded, because I am retired from that field and it is not a concept that I would suggest to any client. Far from the opposite, in fact. It would appear from the responses here and subsequent review of referenced materials that even the notion that it's from Al-anon, is about as factual as saying it's from AA. But, thanks. Hugs